What does it take 'to Believe'?

[Selah7]

32 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I think there was a PREDESTINED outcome for the ENTIRE plan of God,

which, when getting into the details of how it would all play out, includes some like Jeremiah, who didn't live a 'freewill' life by any means.  
 

 

4Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

6Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.

7But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.

8Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.

9Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

Which I don't think He does very often.
 

True.  God had an intimate foreknowledge of Jeremiah and found him worthy to be predestined.

[enoob57]

How many in this discussion are determinist? God's sovereignty requires God to absolutely cause all that occurs...

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

How many in this discussion are determinist? God's sovereignty requires God to absolutely cause all that occurs...

How can God say I set before you Life and Death...and then determine all that takes place?  

Why bother with any of this?  That wouldn't make any sense, would it?  How much pleasure is there in knowing everything.  Does He just JUDGE how well HE DID or didn't do?  



 

[Neighbor]

Let's turn this thinking session on it's head for a few moments.

When did "we" first have "the Bible"? Was no one saved until the Bible was complete as we know of it today, and printing came along, and bookstores?

Did Abram,  later renamed Abraham, believe even before being confronted and turned about by God and renaming him Abraham? Was not Abram a rather bad character (A man that in order to save himself would let another take his wife?).

For that matter what  of the first Adam?

Has God the Father reduced God the Holy Spirit's authority and agency to only calling out those that  have "in the natural state" been reading the Bible?

Or is it more likely that none seek God and all fall short of God's Glory?

God uses the most foolish of things does he not? Perhaps so that  no one has glory in their personal merit, but instead glorifies God alone. Is that not the case with Gideon as example, a man so fearful he was down in a grape pressing area trying to process his wheat instead  of being high up in the wind needed to do so?

Yes I do declare I had no interest at all in God. God was nonexistent. That others believed in God did not offend me, but those that put me down for my unbelief I considered to be a pain. I just was not interested in a non existent God.  

There is not an iota of merit in my own salvation that I can claim to be of me. Didn't matter though, for God was having none of my rejection of his existence, for He answers prayer rightly asked of him.  

Took some twenty years after the prayers ended, but he did it in his timing.  A bit of a one punch knockout, but set up over many years time. He is faithful. He is not limited to time.

Let me restate: My own salvation had absolutely nothing to do with my own interest, nor any seeking out  of Jesus, whatsoever. It had everything to do with the faithfulness of Jesus  to answer prayer,  prayer rightly asked, - that meaning not prayer for personal gain. Others had rightly asked  for God to save me.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

When did "we" first have "the Bible"? Was no one saved until the Bible was complete as we know of it today, and printing came along, and bookstores?

GOOD point.  When there was no possibility of Satan being cast out of heaven and coming to deceive the whole world, and fellowship and spreading the good news was the ONLY issue on the table, no one really needing to know about prophecy and no one really cared, so no need for anyone to have the details and so they didn't. 

Now, when the WORD has to go out to the whole world, and the book of Daniel is being opened, and GODS TRUTH is more important than ever because the FINAL GENERATION is quickly coming upon us (if not already here)

sure enough it is possible for a Bible to be in ANYONES hands.  So when it was all of FAITH, no details needed, it wasn't available, but now, when the details are needed everyone has one.  OHH, the PERFECTION OF GOD.  

It's time to BUILD upon the foundation that has been laid rather than try and keep going back to the beginning.  We are supposed to be going from milk to meat, not seeking to keep everything as it has always been.  

"But many that are first shall be last; and the last first." Mark 10:31 KJV

Truth is in the details. And the time if fast approaching when SALVATION will be of those who do NOT LET THEMSELVES be deceived.  He has foretold us all things. 

"So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen." Matthew 20:16 KJV

 

[NConly]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I am having a strange morning as far as being able to comprehend what should be simple concepts.  

I understand the Bible was there, but since it couldn't be touched, and what was going on seems to not have been of anything taught in it...how could they have taught you about God.  Unless you are saying they let you know there was a Creator and disrespecting Him was not allowed...?


 

Every time one of us said something that sounded like we were using Gods name in vain we got spanked and told there is a God and do not say His name in vain. I guess that isn't actually teaching more telling. The only time I saw the bible open was when some one spoke of my Moms Mom and she kept her picture in the bible and showed it. I told you it was a weird childhood I grew up in.If you look at my profile every school change is when my parents split up; summer splits not shown.

Edited March 16, 2023 by NConly
add

[DeighAnn]

5 minutes ago, NConly said:

Every time one of us said something that sounded like we were using Gods name in vain we got spanked and told there is a God and do not say His name in vain. It seems strange to me too. The only time I saw the bible open was when some one spoke of my Moms Mom and she kept her picture in the bible. I told you it was a weird childhood I grew up in. 

You did, and it was, but thank God for whatever it was they said because here you are!!!  

[enoob57]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How can God say I set before you Life and Death...and then determine all that takes place?  

Why bother with any of this?  That wouldn't make any sense, would it?  How much pleasure is there in knowing everything.  Does He just JUDGE how well HE DID or didn't do?  



 

Well there are a great many who believe this... I am trying to find out who for sake of discussion So you are saying you are not?

[Neighbor]

19 hours ago, enoob57 said:

How many in this discussion are determinist? God's sovereignty requires God to absolutely cause all that occurs...

I am a Freewill Calvinist.

For  I rejected God entirely of my own will to do so, but could not, this side of my own sanity, reject God when the Holy  Spirit set an angel before me in the form of a man of some authority to demand I make a decision right then (About Yeshua) or never. That demand I could not resist, not this side of my sanity, I couldn't.

Over time I became more aware of the background of this "happening" in my life, discovering God was answering the prayer of  a person that believed in the faithfulness of Jesus.

I had no choice though I had exercised freewill to reject Him, even God's existence altogether until that moment.

So freewill? Well turned out not so much in the face of God's will otherwise. Predestined by God and foreknown by God? Evidently, just as it is declared in the Bible, that is so.

For me to deny it is for me to deny  the inspired declaration of Saul the Rabbi from Tarsus, named Paul by Yeshua at Saul's own rather abrupt turning about. BTW- did Paul have a choice at that point  this side of his sanity, or was he destined by God alone to his own plight to come?

I believe what Paul shared  and has become part of the Bible Christians state is inerrant in the original texts. I believe what is now called Romans 8:28 through 39

 ..."And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.  For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.  Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?  He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?  Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.  Who is he who condemns? It isChrist who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?  As it is written:

“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”

 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. "-Credit Bible Gateway

 

 

[DeighAnn]

13 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Well there are a great many who believe this... I am trying to find out who for sake of discussion So you are saying you are not?

 I have no idea, as I have no idea what one is but did the best I could to figure it out from what you asked.  I had never heard the term before that.  I don't ever put myself in with any specific group because I think that limits what I am open to when I am reading the words of God.  I don't want anything like that to be the thing to 'lead or guide' my thoughts, I leave that up to the Holy Spirit.  I believe what I read UNTIL I read something else that causes a conflict, and then go back and try to find MY mistake(s), whatever those may be.

Example.  It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.  When I read that, I believe is what is meant.  Therefore, I can't believe 'It is sown a natural body, it is raised a SPIRIT', as so many do, like it's no big deal because that would mean 'it is raised a spiritual BODY' WAS A BOLD-FACED LIE. Now, if it was written it is sown a natural spirit it is raised a spiritual spirit or even it is sown an natural body at which the spirit departs and will return to be raised in a body I would be all over it, but since THOSE are not the words God used, I have to defer to what He had written.  

ME, I think GOD, who created language, knew exactly what words to use to say exactly what He meant.  I believe there are figures of speech employed to give more truth to the truth, not to confuse.  And rightly dividing is key. 

Is there a group for that?  People who believe God knows how to use the right words to say what He means, and when He uses basic sentences, they are correct as put forth?