Anyone else watch "Table Talk?"

[Vine Abider]

15 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Brother, that's what I've shared in multiple posts. This is why I state that the SDA church preaches a different gospel.

This has nothing to do with befriending members of the SDA church, brother. I also recognize that individual congregations under their umbrella (SDA) might not hold to such things, and don't consider Ellen White's writings as inspired nor prophetic, but that's not the position of the Seventh Day Adventist church. 

Sabbath-keeping is covered in their statement of faith and fundamental doctrines as required for salvation. Ellen White is called a prophet. Her writings are held to be equivalent to scripture by the SDA church.

See the difference? I know of some SDA assemblies and individuals who don't believe according to the SDA official positions. There's that.

I was only addressing SDA church doctrine and beliefs, @Vine Abider. Now as it happens, I visited an SDA church 30 years ago. They adhered to the SDA teaching and doctrine. I was told that if I didn't keep their Sabbath day, I was condemned. 

Okay, thanks for that clarification!  I've been led into some very good experiences with SDA brothers and have not been exposed to the more erroneous teachings.  That is except to occasionally catching the more hyper-SDA teachers on TV, and the Anointing within has me turn them off pretty quickly when they get into that stuff.  But again, the Table Talk with the 4 brothers has been quite rich and spontaneous, and I've never heard the SDA even mentioned there, or perceived any of the off-the-mark SDA teachings on that program. 

As I mentioned earlier, I'm emailing an ex-SDA brother I met while camping in Colorado to check on a couple things you-all have mentioned in this thread about SDA "another gospel" teachings.  He meets annually with two SDA brothers he's known since childhood. I had a real God experience with them one summer, and one of them wrote this article about it in a SDA publication - I didn't know his side of the story until I read it a couple years later when he sent me the link.  And I had actually forgotten about that article until looking for the one brother's email address just now.  Below is a copy of that article . . . I still get choked-up thinking  about how the Lord arraigned that wonderful experience!

BTW - my own back story to this is that the Lord had been preparing me for some time this encounter.  I had become aware of some of the SDA positions prior to that through a variety of sources.  But the Lord's speaking in me was like this, "They are brothers, so just treat them as such and simply focus on Christ alone." 

THE FOURTH CHAIR

Published in Spectrum (an official SDA publication):
December 12, 2013

Every year or so, my two best friends and I get together for a long weekend of “just the guys.” We live in different states so it is a challenge to coordinate our schedules, family responsibilities and jobs to make it happen.  More than once we’ve had to cancel due to last minute issues that crept up.  Our gatherings so far have taken us to Washington State, Utah, and Colorado.

The purpose of these meetings is invariably fellowship.  We might stay at one of our homes, or go camping. We spend a lot of time talking about our youth as we all attended the same boarding academy and college and at one time or another were roommates.  We also deeply care about each other, and our gathering serves as a way of reviewing the previous year and where our lives have gone.  At times it gets very personal, and deeply spiritual.  Late night around a campfire, in the quiet of a moonless sky, seems to be the most fruitful stimulus for baring one’s self.  I’ve known these guys for decades, and still learn things. 

We spend a lot of time talking about God, and how our picture of Him has matured over the years. We laugh at some of the crazy experiences and messages we heard in boarding academy; the most infamous was a worship talk by the boy’s dean on how there will be no feces in heaven!  In college we were blessed by having Morris Venden, and challenged by the oratory and conviction of Desmond Ford.  It was a time when Adventist theology was stressed and challenged and our view of God and Salvation changed, never to go back to the paradigm of our younger years.  Since then, one of us left Adventism but is now the most spiritual of the group, having actively embraced another Christian faith.  It has not hurt our friendship at all - in fact it gives us far more to talk about.

These gatherings have become one of the highlights of the year, where three guys drop their professional facades, and become “buddies” again.  More importantly, it is a time of soul searching and prayer, a period of fun and rest, an opportunity to encourage one another, and to refresh our purpose and life-focus.  I highly recommend what we’ve come to call ”the gathering” to anyone.

But my intent in writing this is not just to tell you about our gatherings, but about an experience at this year’s gathering that was spent camping in the high country of Western Colorado.  

While loading our supplies for the trip, we packed three camping chairs but at the last minute I added one more; a fourth chair.  This was deliberate because I felt oddly impressed that God would send someone to fill it.  This is not at all typical for me, but just the same I felt impressed to do it. 

When we arrived at our camping spot, we didn’t even set up the fourth chair.  But the next day we had some leftover fresh pineapple from our breakfast and so I walked over the campsite next to us.  No one was outside so I didn’t even know if anyone was there.  After yelling “Hello, anyone home?”, a middle-aged man came out. His name was Tery, and he happily accepted our gift as we started talking.  What happened next still surprises me.

When getting to know someone you look for commonality.  I asked him where he was from and he said Phoenix.  I know one person in Phoenix, so I asked if he was familiar with Pastor Mark Martin of Calvary Community Church? He immediately said he was.  I then told him that Mark, myself, and my other two friends, (pointing in the direction of our camp) had all gone to a small Christian college together and two of us also studied theology together with Mark.  He became very interested in this fact and the conversation eventually went towards Adventism.  He seemed more anxious to talk about it than I was.  He said he had been watching 3ABN and thought they had some excellent speakers on the various programs, he was dissuaded by the emphasis on “Sola Ellen White” instead of the Bible.  Our conversation continued for a few more minutes and then I politely told him we needed to get our day going.  As I walked away he started to follow me and said he would really like to meet the others in our group.  As Tery and I walked over to our campsite I called out to one of my friends to “set up the fourth chair.”  My friend knew exactly what that meant.  What followed was an hour of conversation that started with friendly banter but soon had deeper sharing of spiritual truths mixed with our own unique experiences in our Christian walk.  Tery knew scripture better than any of us and quoted it frequently, and most appropriately, as it applied to our everyday lives.  We were impressed and blessed by this meeting together, and definitely felt this was why we were supposed to bring the fourth chair.  Before he left, we all had prayer together. 

The fourth chair did not get put away that night.  The next morning while fixing breakfast Tery came back over to our campsite with coffee in hand and took his place in the fourth chair.  We had plenty of food so we invited him and his wife to join us for breakfast.  The next two hours we talked more of spiritual things, and how God has manifested himself to us throughout the years.  We discussed our joys and disappointments, the mistakes of youth, and how God has helped us make sense of it all.  When we separated, again we left with prayer. 

Now every time I go camping, there will be an extra chair.  I never would have thought such a simple and benign action could have such significant and blessed consequences.

Don Barton is a Laboratory Informaticist at Delta County Memorial Hospital, in Delta, Colorado.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Vine Abider
typo & clarity

[Vine Abider]

@Marathoner @George @Michael37  I got a reply from the ex-SDA brother I mentioned. 

My question to him:

I’m in an online Christian forum called “Worthy” and I started a post about the program Table Talks which I’ve thoroughly enjoyed over the past few years.  I wanted to see if anyone else in that forum had seen it.  A couple brothers (including the owner of the website) brought up certain erroneous SDA teachings, saying SDA preaches “another gospel.”  As I asked more about what was perceived as “another gospel,” what came out was that SDA claims that adherence to the Saturday sabbath teaching is needed for salvation.  I wanted to ask you – Is that the case, that SDA believes that both belief in Christ and the sabbath is a requirement for salvation?

His response:

Adventist will say it is by faith alone that one is saved…but I if you’re truly saved you will keep his commandments especially the 4th one, the 7th day Sabbath. When I was an active member of the SDA church, I felt that was my experience. It was the gospel and the seal of the sabbath. Not the seal of the Holy Spirit. In fact, the gifts of the spirit were rarely discussed since it’s power ended with the original apostles.

 

[Neighbor]

Rules rules and more rules. Man is an idiot.

God has made access to Him through eternity forward with Him simple; yet man makes rules rules and more rules yet-

[Vine Abider]

So here is some further communication from the ex-SDA bro I know.

Me: Thanks for conveying that about SDA’s take on salvation.  If we reference Galatians where the Judaizers were adding things of the law to faith in Christ alone, then I think we have to say yes, that’s “another gospel.”  Is that your take?

 As I mentioned, I still enjoy watching Table Topics when I can catch them on the local 3ABN channels, and there’s a couple other SDA speakers I can watch . . . that is when they’re not all legalistic or pushing White/Millerism things.

Ex-SDA bro:  When I reflect on my experience with SDA, it is definitely salvation through Christ and the keeping of the sabbath (all the commandments). If you can continue to glean morsels of truth from their broadcast, I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

@George @Marathoner @Neighbor @Marilyn C  So in light of this discussion (on this thread & with this ex-SDA bro), I now have to agree that SDA is "another gospel," in that it is just like what Paul addresses in Galatians.  In fact, it is the same thing: "Christ + The Law."  So while SDA is not in the same camp as JWs or Mormons, in that those groups widely deviate and most there are not born again, SDA definitely does add the law and this is not salvation in Christ alone.

Question - do you think there is still value in watching certain SDA programs (like Table Talks), or should all SDA programs be avoided?

[Dennis1209]

I, too, am aware of the history and doctrine of SDA. Others have commented, and I will refrain.

However, in the mail, I received a flier some years ago inviting me to attend a special prophetic seminar here at their local SDA church, which was free admission. I was stunned by who the guest speaker was; I know most here have at least heard of him. But for the life of me, I cannot remember who it was.

I was heavily considering attending the event, and I decided I would be too uncomfortable and did not go. In retrospect, I wish I had gone.

[Marathoner]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

So here is some further communication from the ex-SDA bro I know.

Me: Thanks for conveying that about SDA’s take on salvation.  If we reference Galatians where the Judaizers were adding things of the law to faith in Christ alone, then I think we have to say yes, that’s “another gospel.”  Is that your take?

 As I mentioned, I still enjoy watching Table Topics when I can catch them on the local 3ABN channels, and there’s a couple other SDA speakers I can watch . . . that is when they’re not all legalistic or pushing White/Millerism things.

Ex-SDA bro:  When I reflect on my experience with SDA, it is definitely salvation through Christ and the keeping of the sabbath (all the commandments). If you can continue to glean morsels of truth from their broadcast, I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

@George @Marathoner @Neighbor @Marilyn C  So in light of this discussion (on this thread & with this ex-SDA bro), I now have to agree that SDA is "another gospel," in that it is just like what Paul addresses in Galatians.  In fact, it is the same thing: "Christ + The Law."  So while SDA is not in the same camp as JWs or Mormons, in that those groups widely deviate and most there are not born again, SDA definitely does add the law and this is not salvation in Christ alone.

Question - do you think there is still value in watching certain SDA programs (like Table Talks), or should all SDA programs be avoided?

Brother, I'm not the least bit concerned for you with regard to SDA doctrine and the like. You evidence a solid grasp of our salvation in Christ to say the very least!

Walk in what the Lord has set before us, I say. I do the same with regard to some whom many brothers and sisters will have nothing to do with. That's who the Lord sends me to.  

[Vine Abider]

26 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I, too, am aware of the history and doctrine of SDA. Others have commented, and I will refrain.

However, in the mail, I received a flier some years ago inviting me to attend a special prophetic seminar here at their local SDA church, which was free admission. I was stunned by who the guest speaker was; I know most here have at least heard of him. But for the life of me, I cannot remember who it was.

I was heavily considering attending the event, and I decided I would be too uncomfortable and did not go. In retrospect, I wish I had gone.

Yeah, I would go to an such a SDA event, or even to worship with them on Saturday, if I was so led of the Lord.  It's still one Lord, one Spirit and one body!

11 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Brother, I'm not the least bit concerned for you with regard to SDA doctrine and the like. You evidence a solid grasp of our salvation in Christ to say the very least!

Walk in what the Lord has set before us, I say. I do the same with regard to some whom many brothers and sisters will have nothing to do with. That's who the Lord sends me to.  

Thanks for your thoughtful replies!  What I have found with SDA folks is just to focus on Christ. This is really no different than my approach to fellowshipping with any other Christians.  And you are right that the Lord has grounded me enough in His word/truth to not get sucked into overt legalism.  But we can still enjoy the Lord together - He loves us all!

[Sower]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:06 AM, Vine Abider said:

  I wanted to ask you – Is that the case, that SDA believes that both belief in Christ and the sabbath is a requirement for salvation?

His response:

Adventist will say it is by faith alone that one is saved…but I if you’re truly saved you will keep his commandments especially the 4th one, the 7th day Sabbath. When I was an active member of the SDA church, I felt that was my experience. It was the gospel and the seal of the sabbath. Not the seal of the Holy Spirit. In fact, the gifts of the spirit were rarely discussed since it’s power ended with the original apostles.

but I if you’re "truly saved" you will keep his commandments

especially the 4th one, the 7th day Sabbath.

I can attest to those words..

Maybe thirty yrs back my little brother got saved in our home and was then attending a solid based little baptist church, steadily growing. Then he met a girl, became involved and began attending her church. He told me about his new church, the SDA,  unaware of their beliefs. I informed him about Ellen White and their false gospel and he didn't like it. I ask to talk to his pastor in front of my brother, and the pastor said they believe in salvation by grace alone is all needed. (HE LIED!) as even my brother now believed works/law preeminent/necessary to be saved.

As time goes by, he changed, becoming judgemental as to diet, pork/bacon etc, and my Sunday worship and the law.  Don't dare set foot on his property from sunset Friday till sunset Saturday. We had it out often, and realized he had found his home, and wasn't about to change. We lost fellowship.

Years later when at my home, we were discussing scripture, a question he had and came to me. I answered and then he said quote"Brother, our church is praying for you, and your family,  because you worship on the day of the mark of the beast, Sunday"

I didn't slug him, but I ran him off, cussing. I was *#$#*^+** mad, at how that church had taken my naive little brother, baby believer,  and twisted his mind to  the Ellen White false evil doctrines, to please his new found girlfriend.

The RCC now has changed their doctrine also to salvation by grace (1995 ecumenicism movement) to help from losing so many members who wanted to be born again. They just don't tell the sheep that unless they participate in the seven sacraments, holy days, priestly confession,  etc etc,  then purgatory city. Still works-works.   Also lies.       Deceptive to the unwary..

SDA has much to help people health wise, discipline wise, and money wise. Ck out their world wise incomes from members, huge portion going up stream to the hierarchy. Growing enormously. Wolfs in sheep clothing. 
This is MY personal experience.

** I also believe there could be SDA who know the gospel truth, believe it and are saved, and don't condemn the Sunday worshippers. I just haven't met them.

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

So here is some further communication from the ex-SDA bro I know.

Me: Thanks for conveying that about SDA’s take on salvation.  If we reference Galatians where the Judaizers were adding things of the law to faith in Christ alone, then I think we have to say yes, that’s “another gospel.”  Is that your take?

 As I mentioned, I still enjoy watching Table Topics when I can catch them on the local 3ABN channels, and there’s a couple other SDA speakers I can watch . . . that is when they’re not all legalistic or pushing White/Millerism things.

Ex-SDA bro:  When I reflect on my experience with SDA, it is definitely salvation through Christ and the keeping of the sabbath (all the commandments). If you can continue to glean morsels of truth from their broadcast, I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

@George @Marathoner @Neighbor @Marilyn C  So in light of this discussion (on this thread & with this ex-SDA bro), I now have to agree that SDA is "another gospel," in that it is just like what Paul addresses in Galatians.  In fact, it is the same thing: "Christ + The Law."  So while SDA is not in the same camp as JWs or Mormons, in that those groups widely deviate and most there are not born again, SDA definitely does add the law and this is not salvation in Christ alone.

Question - do you think there is still value in watching certain SDA programs (like Table Talks), or should all SDA programs be avoided?

Also, good to be aware that many preachers do include the `laws,` that they say believers need to do. This is inferred as they preach from the 4 gospels as to what Jesus said to the people of Israel who were under the law. Think about the sermon on the mount, and many believers think they have to do all that in their own strength. 

[Vine Abider]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Also, good to be aware that many preachers do include the `laws,` that they say believers need to do. This is inferred as they preach from the 4 gospels as to what Jesus said to the people of Israel who were under the law. Think about the sermon on the mount, and many believers think they have to do all that in their own strength. 

Yes, fully agree! Way too much of preaching is mixed with the law, just as you said!  As if to say, "You were saved by faith alone, but now you must do something to please God."  Only by His life living/growing in us and working through us, can we do anything profitable for the kingdom.

"Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect.'  Try doing that apart from His Spirit and life in us!