Bible Study - Literally

[Dennis1209]

Regarding church attendance, what do you consider Bible study, one-way communication? The reason I ask, and I am not complaining or criticizing, but our Wednesday evening “Bible Study” has turned into Wednesday evening preaching, or Wednesday church or devotional.

My thoughts on Bible study are selecting a biblical subject, book or topic, place, theme, or person to study, in an expository verse-by-verse fashion. Complete with learning Hebrew/Greek word meanings when they do not meet our English equivalents and understanding in translation.

In the interim, before our permanent Pastor, we had 10-12 attending Bible study. On a good night, we may have 5-6, typically three to four. Some are asking others, “what can we do to increase Sunday School and Wednesday evening Bible study?”

Sunday School is Bible study, yet we have poor attendance vs. morning church attendance. Sunday evening attendance is just as poor. Then we have those we only see at Easter and Christmas.

This July, our community country church will be celebrating its 200^th anniversary. With the average age of our members and congregation short of our Lord’s intervention, I suspect our doors might be closing around 2030 through attrition.

I remember the days of my youth, going with my grandfather by street car and bus to various church events and speakers in Saint Louis, MO. (My grandparents never owned or drove a car). Our church back then, and every other Christian Church I ever visited, was always packed.

Today there are still a fraction of churches that have good numbers. But the trend is many churches have closed their doors because of attendance and inability to pay the bills. I could name many in our county alone in the last decade.

Any ideas on how and why some of the few Christian churches are still growing, some even mega-churches? Tickling ears, comps, services, entertainment, catering, maybe?

Can we count dwindling numbers and percentages as part of the last days' apostasy?

[FJK]

29 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

This July, our community country church will be celebrating its 200^th anniversary. With the average age of our members and congregation short of our Lord’s intervention, I suspect our doors might be closing around 2030 through attrition.

I read a recent poll that indicates only 39% of Americans still consider religion important, and of those I would speculate that a fair number of them only still consider it important for the social factors.

But as far as a Bible study, what should it be? 

A simple academic study of scripture and its historical use, or something more dynamic like not only understanding the scripture but helping each person in developing a personal living understanding of what it means to them and how they can apply it in a living manner to daily living in their own actions, their family's, their work and work relationships, their friendships and their recreational activities to live a more successful and fulfilled life?  Maybe a combination of both?

The difference between learning the scripture and learning the how to of applying its personal meaning to direct your life (call it applied Christianity).

Just a musing, just my thinking.

[Michael37]

41 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Regarding church attendance, what do you consider Bible study, one-way communication? The reason I ask, and I am not complaining or criticizing, but our Wednesday evening “Bible Study” has turned into Wednesday evening preaching, or Wednesday church or devotional.

My thoughts on Bible study are selecting a biblical subject, book or topic, place, theme, or person to study, in an expository verse-by-verse fashion. Complete with learning Hebrew/Greek word meanings when they do not meet our English equivalents and understanding in translation.

In the interim, before our permanent Pastor, we had 10-12 attending Bible study. On a good night, we may have 5-6, typically three to four. Some are asking others, “what can we do to increase Sunday School and Wednesday evening Bible study?”

Sunday School is Bible study, yet we have poor attendance vs. morning church attendance. Sunday evening attendance is just as poor. Then we have those we only see at Easter and Christmas.

This July, our community country church will be celebrating its 200^th anniversary. With the average age of our members and congregation short of our Lord’s intervention, I suspect our doors might be closing around 2030 through attrition.

I remember the days of my youth, going with my grandfather by street car and bus to various church events and speakers in Saint Louis, MO. (My grandparents never owned or drove a car). Our church back then, and every other Christian Church I ever visited, was always packed.

Today there are still a fraction of churches that have good numbers. But the trend is many churches have closed their doors because of attendance and inability to pay the bills. I could name many in our county alone in the last decade.

Any ideas on how and why some of the few Christian churches are still growing, some even mega-churches? Tickling ears, comps, services, entertainment, catering, maybe?

Can we count dwindling numbers and percentages as part of the last days' apostasy?

Organic. That's how some Christian commentators describe their preferred style of association with other members of the body of Christ.

Distraction. That's how I describe the dynamics of institutional, sectarian organisation.

If the Holy Spirit isn't around for any sort of Bible Study I'm not either.

Personalities are a problem in any gathering. One type of personality in particular that comes to mind is the authoritarian. This is the person that wants complete control on all fronts, and look out anyone who upsets their agenda in any way.

I have a large Bible open on our dining room table and often get into informal studies with people in our home. 

The building and strengthening of relationships should go hand in hand with group Bible study.

[AdHoc]

15 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Regarding church attendance, what do you consider Bible study, one-way communication? The reason I ask, and I am not complaining or criticizing, but our Wednesday evening “Bible Study” has turned into Wednesday evening preaching, or Wednesday church or devotional.

My thoughts on Bible study are selecting a biblical subject, book or topic, place, theme, or person to study, in an expository verse-by-verse fashion. Complete with learning Hebrew/Greek word meanings when they do not meet our English equivalents and understanding in translation.

In the interim, before our permanent Pastor, we had 10-12 attending Bible study. On a good night, we may have 5-6, typically three to four. Some are asking others, “what can we do to increase Sunday School and Wednesday evening Bible study?”

Sunday School is Bible study, yet we have poor attendance vs. morning church attendance. Sunday evening attendance is just as poor. Then we have those we only see at Easter and Christmas.

This July, our community country church will be celebrating its 200^th anniversary. With the average age of our members and congregation short of our Lord’s intervention, I suspect our doors might be closing around 2030 through attrition.

I remember the days of my youth, going with my grandfather by street car and bus to various church events and speakers in Saint Louis, MO. (My grandparents never owned or drove a car). Our church back then, and every other Christian Church I ever visited, was always packed.

Today there are still a fraction of churches that have good numbers. But the trend is many churches have closed their doors because of attendance and inability to pay the bills. I could name many in our county alone in the last decade.

Any ideas on how and why some of the few Christian churches are still growing, some even mega-churches? Tickling ears, comps, services, entertainment, catering, maybe?

Can we count dwindling numbers and percentages as part of the last days' apostasy?

My experience has been the following. You have one of two options:
1. Use worldly methods like entertainment, charismatic leaders and appearing to care for social needs. People are beset with these problems and will flock to this - each with a sad story. Growth in numbers - satisfactory. Growth in spiritual matters - zero to negative.

2. You can teach the pure Word, encourage every one to participate and promote holy living. Result - you should be small enough to meet in a house. Infrastructure? None needed. Elders? Hardly needed. Bills? 1 round of coffee per meeting. Social problems? The Word would have told you that we suffer in this life. Economic problems? The Word will have taught that you have to work hard (in the sweat of your brow). Growth in numbers? Zero to negative. The Lord called it "LITTLE flock": Growth in spirituality? Gradual but positive.

This is what our Lord's experience was:
After 3½ years of constant gracious word and helping people by hundreds of healings, feeding thousands of hungry compatriots and including raising the dead, the leaders of God's religion plan to kill Him. At His arrest for no offense, all His friends deserted him. At His murder on Golgotha, a few dozen stood in the distance. After appearing alive, raised from the dead, to hundreds of disciples, 120 were left. That's final - 120. Then the Holy Spirit is given and the gospel preached in Jerusalem at the Feast of Weeks. Population of Jerusalem at this Feast - 1 million plus. Obedient to the gospel - 3,000. Success percentage 0.3% - yes ... one third of one measly percent.

[Alive]

23 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

My experience has been the following. You have one of two options:
1. Use worldly methods like entertainment, charismatic leaders and appearing to care for social needs. People are beset with these problems and will flock to this - each with a sad story. Growth in numbers - satisfactory. Growth in spiritual matters - zero to negative.

2. You can teach the pure Word, encourage every one to participate and promote holy living. Result - you should be small enough to meet in a house. Infrastructure? None needed. Elders? Hardly needed. Bills? 1 round of coffee per meeting. Social problems? The Word would have told you that we suffer in this life. Economic problems? The Word will have taught that you have to work hard (in the sweat of your brow). Growth in numbers? Zero to negative. The Lord called it "LITTLE flock": Growth in spirituality? Gradual but positive.

This is what our Lord's experience was:
After 3½ years of constant gracious word and helping people by hundreds of healings, feeding thousands of hungry compatriots and including raising the dead, the leaders of God's religion plan to kill Him. At His arrest for no offense, all His friends deserted him. At His murder on Golgotha, a few dozen stood in the distance. After appearing alive, raised from the dead, to hundreds of disciples, 120 were left. That's final - 120. Then the Holy Spirit is given and the gospel preached in Jerusalem at the Feast of Weeks. Population of Jerusalem at this Feast - 1 million plus. Obedient to the gospel - 3,000. Success percentage 0.3% - yes ... one third of one measly percent.

This was almost exactly my experience. From experience as a ‘licensed’ minister and pastor in a larger pentecostal denomination to many years in home church….all through history, there have been small groups that sought to live simply in the Lord. Kennedy’s Torch of the Testimony is a good read.

[FreeGrace]

17 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Can we count dwindling numbers and percentages as part of the last days' apostasy?

Yes.  And the fact that the Bible says that the devil "deceives the whole world" per Rev 12:9 and the "whole world is under the control of the evil one" per 1 John 5:19 .

Without a doubt, we are in the very last of times.  Whether we are already IN the Tribulation may be debatable, but given 2 Thess 2 about the removal of the "restrainer", seems we may be.  Many think the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, but it makes no sense that He would leave earth during the time of probably the greatest effort ever in world wide evangelism, esp with angels flying in midair preaching the gospel.  Rather, the restrainer most likely refers to "moral government".  iow, the government that keeps evil at bay, as England was during the 1900's and the USA had been until the past 2 years.

imho

[Dennis1209]

7 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Yes.  And the fact that the Bible says that the devil "deceives the whole world" per Rev 12:9 and the "whole world is under the control of the evil one" per 1 John 5:19 .

Without a doubt, we are in the very last of times.  Whether we are already IN the Tribulation may be debatable, but given 2 Thess 2 about the removal of the "restrainer", seems we may be.  Many think the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, but it makes no sense that He would leave earth during the time of probably the greatest effort ever in world wide evangelism, esp with angels flying in midair preaching the gospel.  Rather, the restrainer most likely refers to "moral government".  iow, the government that keeps evil at bay, as England was during the 1900's and the USA had been until the past 2 years.

imho

There is no doubt in my mind we are living in the tail end of the age of Grace, this dispensation, or however we define it.

No doubt you have heard it before, but my view is a bit different, not that I am correct. True, the government’s purpose is to restrain and punish evil, and I believe the force that restrains is the Holy Spirit, through the indwelling of each born-again believer, collectively as the church.

I believe when we are Raptured, the Restrainer is removed with us; thus, Satan is unrestricted and has complete reign and authority until the Lord’s return. The Holy Spirit did not act as a restrainer in OT until Pentecost. As in OT times and the Tribulation period, I believe He is still actively convicting people but not restraining them.

I see no restraint pre- or post-deluge, only judgment; thus, the whole globe was wiped out, save eight.

The Tribulation does not start until the Antichrist is revealed, confirming a seven-year covenant with Israel.

But that is only one person’s exegesis.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

There is no doubt in my mind we are living in the tail end of the age of Grace, this dispensation, or however we define it.

No doubt you have heard it before, but my view is a bit different, not that I am correct. True, the government’s purpose is to restrain and punish evil, and I believe the force that restrains is the Holy Spirit, through the indwelling of each born-again believer, collectively as the church.

I believe when we are Raptured, the Restrainer is removed with us; thus, Satan is unrestricted and has complete reign and authority until the Lord’s return. The Holy Spirit did not act as a restrainer in OT until Pentecost. As in OT times and the Tribulation period, I believe He is still actively convicting people but not restraining them.

I see no restraint pre- or post-deluge, only judgment; thus, the whole globe was wiped out, save eight.

The Tribulation does not start until the Antichrist is revealed, confirming a seven-year covenant with Israel.

But that is only one person’s exegesis.

I was brought up being taught what you have explained.  But when I began to pay close attention to what the Bible says, I found no mention of Jesus taking anyone to heaven during end times.  Rather, I discovered that the resurrection of all believers (1 Cor 15:23) will occur at the Second Advent, which is also stated in 2 Thess 2:1, which will be at the beginning of the MK.  And Rev 20:4,5 confirms all this as well.  Of course, there is disagreement among the pre-cribbers about that.  But they cannot provide any verse that shows Jesus taking any resurrected peope to heaven.

Since the Bible describes Satan as having "the whole world under his control" in 1 John 5:19 and that he "deceives the whole world" in Rev 12:9, all of which was written 2,000 years ago, I don't see the Holy Spirit restraining Him in any way.

Given the present scenario on earth today, it seems clear enough that Satan does have control over the world now (unrestrained) and things are clearly lining up for the prophesied one world government.  Even our own administration is on board with that.

So, we will see.

 

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There is no doubt in my mind we are living in the tail end of the age of Grace, this dispensation, or however we define it.

No doubt you have heard it before, but my view is a bit different, not that I am correct. True, the government’s purpose is to restrain and punish evil, and I believe the force that restrains is the Holy Spirit, through the indwelling of each born-again believer, collectively as the church.

I believe when we are Raptured, the Restrainer is removed with us; thus, Satan is unrestricted and has complete reign and authority until the Lord’s return. The Holy Spirit did not act as a restrainer in OT until Pentecost. As in OT times and the Tribulation period, I believe He is still actively convicting people but not restraining them.

I see no restraint pre- or post-deluge, only judgment; thus, the whole globe was wiped out, save eight.

The Tribulation does not start until the Antichrist is revealed, confirming a seven-year covenant with Israel.

But that is only one person’s exegesis.

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

I was brought up being taught what you have explained.  But when I began to pay close attention to what the Bible says, I found no mention of Jesus taking anyone to heaven during end times.  Rather, I discovered that the resurrection of all believers (1 Cor 15:23) will occur at the Second Advent, which is also stated in 2 Thess 2:1, which will be at the beginning of the MK.  And Rev 20:4,5 confirms all this as well.  Of course, there is disagreement among the pre-cribbers about that.  But they cannot provide any verse that shows Jesus taking any resurrected peope to heaven.

Since the Bible describes Satan as having "the whole world under his control" in 1 John 5:19 and that he "deceives the whole world" in Rev 12:9, all of which was written 2,000 years ago, I don't see the Holy Spirit restraining Him in any way.

Given the present scenario on earth today, it seems clear enough that Satan does have control over the world now (unrestrained) and things are clearly lining up for the prophesied one world government.  Even our own administration is on board with that.

So, we will see.

 

I hope this thread can stay on track, the subject being Bible Study and what that entails.

Btw - spotted a typo, precribbers???

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, Michael37 said:

 

I hope this thread can stay on track, the subject being Bible Study and what that entails.

My understanding of what Bible study entails is to find the truth.  

11 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Btw - spotted a typo, precribbers???

Bingo!