Are we "real" sons?

[Vine Abider]

Someone alluded that Christ was really the only Son and we are adopted.  However, this seems contrary to what I see in the word.  Jesus Christ was certainly the "only begotten" (I understand this to also mean "unique").

But while Christ is the one, unique Son of God, doesn't it sell short what He did for us to say we are only adopted?  I know about the Roman law concerning adoption, where adopted children had even more rights than blood children.  But God puts the very life of Christ into us when we become believers.  He sends the same Spirit of His Son into us to cry out, "Papa!  Father!"  Therefore, we are not merely legally adopted, but rather share the same life - which no mere legal adoption could give us! (we are both - legally adopted & genetically children of God)

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed* remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9

* Greek "sperma"

[FJK]

What are the first two words of the Lords Prayer and what do they imply?

[Mr. M]

9 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Someone alluded that Christ was really the only Son and we are adopted.  However, this seems contrary to what I see in the word.  Jesus Christ was certainly the "only begotten" (I understand this to also mean "unique").

But while Christ is the one, unique Son of God, doesn't it sell short what He did for us to say we are only adopted?  I know about the Roman law concerning adoption, where adopted children had even more rights than blood children.  But God puts the very life of Christ into us when we become believers.  He sends the same Spirit of His Son into us to cry out, "Papa!  Father!"  Therefore, we are not merely legally adopted, but rather share the same life - which no mere legal adoption could give us! (we are both - legally adopted & genetically children of God)

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed* remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9

* Greek "sperma"

Real sons? Or sons in spirit and in truth?

Romans 8:

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 

15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received

the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 

17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, 

if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Hebrews 2:

10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things,

in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation 

perfect through sufferings. 

11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one,

for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren.

Hebrews 5:

8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 

9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

We are only true sons and daughters to the degree we have been sanctified 

in spirit and in truth, by the Spirit of Adoption, by means of the suffering way.

Quite the contradiction to tell people that all these things are accomplished with an

altar call.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

The modern church has ALREADY quenched the Holy Spirit of Adoption by their

false doctrines of convenience. Is that real enough for you? Did you really think

that I would post what I did in that other thread without a scriptural basis?

Have I been with you all this time, and do not know this? You quote 1 John 3:9

without comprehension. That word "remains" in Him is "abide", as in

John 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire,

and it shall be done for you.

The desire that I would ask of the Lord, is that all would read and reconsider.

If you really believe that "he cannot sin" can be accomplished without abiding,

then you probably have overlooked this admonishment to the church.

1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; 

for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

[Mr. M]

7 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Hebrews 5:

8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 

9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers,

you need someone to teach you again the first principles

of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled

in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 

14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, 

those who by reason of use have their senses exercised 

to discern both good and evil.

[BibleWords]

John 1:12– To as many as received Him, He gave the power to become the sons of God.

[Vine Abider]

55 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Real sons? Or sons in spirit and in truth?

Romans 8:

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 

15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received

the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 

17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, 

if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Hebrews 2:

10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things,

in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation 

perfect through sufferings. 

11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one,

for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren.

 

You quoted some great verses here!  And for "adoption" in Romans 8:15, I like "sonship." If you look up the word in Strong's (g5206) it states the word "sonship" in the description.

This one also comes to mind: "Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone.  But if it dies it brings forth much fruit."  John 12:24  This is another verse showing it's a life relationship!  Christ had to give up His life in order that His life would be brought forth in us!  

[Sower]

Are we "real" sons?

Well, some of us are. I looked.

And some are daughters.

God is light. He cannot lie!

 

[Dennis1209]

Opinion piece:

Whether one wants to describe it, by grafting or adoption, we are given the power of choice to inherit rewards and eternal life more abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Lord. The bene elohim is the spiritual and first sons of God.

All three Persons of the Godhead are coequal. Will all His children, both spiritual beings directly created by Him, and the born sons of Adam be equal in eternity as sons of God? There is no mention in the Bible of angels receiving crowns or rewards. Some aspects remind me of the Prodigal son, recklessly wasteful, and the son that did not stray and remained faithful to his father and became jealous.

The holy angels are just that, holy. What purpose would there be for the Holy Spirit to indwell them?

Technically it seems bene elohim are the sons of God. Through the power of choice and acceptance, we humans can legally be adopted/grafted into the family as what we refer to as stepchildren. Potential stepchildren are asked if they want to become adopted into a family if they can make that rational decision of free will choice.

[Mr. M]

51 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

You quoted some great verses here!  And for "adoption" in Romans 8:15, I like "sonship." If you look up the word in Strong's (g5206) it states the word "sonship" in the description.

This one also comes to mind: "Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone.  But if it dies it brings forth much fruit."  John 12:24  This is another verse showing it's a life relationship!  Christ had to give up His life in order that His life would be brought forth in us!  

What remains are those annoying IF words!

Praise God that we are those who are pressing in to his kingdom,

and by His Grace when we see Him, we will  be like Him.

1 John 3:

1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us,

that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world

does not know us, because it did not know Him. 

2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been

revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, 

we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 

3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself,

just as He is pure.

Lord have mercy, Terry! How are we expected to purify ourselves?

By abiding in the Spirit that He has given us!

2 Co 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves

from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Or, by obeying His commands:

1 John 2:

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

The Test of Knowing Him

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

May we be perfect, even as Our Father in Heaven is perfect. 

Thank you for being iron, to sharpen iron.

And if you wanted to know why I referred to an adoptive Father, you could have asked me.

The bottom line, is that this is totally outside of ourselves.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right (exousia= authority)

to become children of God, to those who believe in His name (fully commit our trust)

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If this was automatic on conversion, then all creation would not be waiting for the manifestation.

Romans 8:18-23 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Out of curiosity, does your Bible translate all these verses as 'sonship, rather than adoption?

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g5206/kjv/tr/0-1/

Edited April 6, 2023 by Mr. M
grammar

[R. Hartono]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Someone alluded that Christ was really the only Son and we are adopted.  However, this seems contrary to what I see in the word.  Jesus Christ was certainly the "only begotten" (I understand this to also mean "unique").

But while Christ is the one, unique Son of God, doesn't it sell short what He did for us to say we are only adopted?  I know about the Roman law concerning adoption, where adopted children had even more rights than blood children.  But God puts the very life of Christ into us when we become believers.  He sends the same Spirit of His Son into us to cry out, "Papa!  Father!"  Therefore, we are not merely legally adopted, but rather share the same life - which no mere legal adoption could give us! (we are both - legally adopted & genetically children of God)

"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed* remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9

* Greek "sperma"

God claim the church into the body of Christ as His sons and daughters by the Holy Spirit baptism.

We cannot claim to be the sons and daughters without God claiming us first into His body with the Holy Spirit baptism, otherwise we are only theologians claiming to be sons and daughters.