A Look Into Covenant Theology

[Alive]

I woke up in the middle of the night last night with this verse resounding in my mind.

John 15:16 (NAS20S) “ You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

I found myself thanking the Lord for that very day, when He miraculously saved me by His Name.

It was one of those wonderful moments the Lord graciously provides.

[farouk]

4 minutes ago, Alive said:

I woke up in the middle of the night last night with this verse resounding in my mind.

John 15:16 (NAS20S) “ You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

I found myself thanking the Lord for that very day, when He miraculously saved me by His Name.

It was one of those wonderful moments the Lord graciously provides.

Hi @Alive John's First Epistle has some similar content.

[Alive]

I have offered this several times in the past here, but it bears repeating.

I think it is helpful to see all of the history of man through Grace. That all of God's dealings with and relationships with or without faith and belief are through the Grace of God. No mattter how you part out epics and covenants along the pathway of history, it has always been Grace as the mechanism of His dealings.

He created us by Grace, He refrained from wiping out Adam and Eve by Grace, Abraham was called out of Ur by Grace, the Law was given as a gracious gift to lead us to Christ, and on and on until the culmination of all that scripture leads to--Jesus Christ, the Word and the Savior of the world.

When I read the scriptures, this is what I see on each page. Grace and the Person of God Himself as the Son--the Word.

I do believe and am convinced that this is a helpful perspective.

[Arial]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Very interesting and well-explained. I have yet to understand the divide between covenant and dispensational theology, and I see both in God’s word.

There are dispensations in the Bible, as well as covenants. That is, there are different times in which God communicated with people in different ways. Directly, as we see with Adam and Eve, Abraham up until Moses who He communicated with directly as He brought them out of Egypt and into the land promised to Abraham, then through the Law and the Prophets, and now through Jesus Christ. All of it is contained in what we now have as the scriptures.

It is that framework of dispensations built around the scriptures (remember the comparison of building framework and finished building in the OP)that dispensationalists use as an interpretive tool. There are so many branches of dispensationalism that I hesitate to make flat statements as to what those dispensations are and what they name them. I understand generally there are considered to be seven dispensations in that theology. And they do not parse or name them in the same way as I see dispensations I gave above, as  a covenant interpreter.

In covenant theology it keeps one single redemption working out and progressing in a perfect unbroken line through all of scripture. In dispensation theology, it keeps Israel and the Church as separate entities with the same means of salvation but at separate times, with Israel as a nation state reigning with Christ for a thousand years in physical Israel and at the end of that time and the restoration of all of creation, the two becoming one.

Covenant theology sees Jesus as true Israel who does what Israel should have done. That is why He fulfilled all of the Sinai covenant Law. He is faithful Israel. And those in Him through faith from all nations and peoples are the children of the promise that was given to Abraham. Eternal life in the kingdom of God with their faith in Him counted to them as righteousness. It sees Jesus as the fulfillment of all those promises of restoration of Israel given in the OT, including the King who is David's descendant. And the land grant covenant with Israel has become obsolete for a new and better covenant, that neither excludes Israel or Gentiles.

Hope that helped somewhat. It deserves a deep dive and if you have questions, I will do mu best to address them and hopefully with the help of others also.

 

 

 

[Arial]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

I have offered this several times in the past here, but it bears repeating.

I think it is helpful to see all of the history of man through Grace. That all of God's dealings with and relationships with or without faith and belief are through the Grace of God. No mattter how you part out epics and covenants along the pathway of history, it has always been Grace as the mechanism of His dealings.

He created us by Grace, He refrained from wiping out Adam and Eve by Grace, Abraham was called out of Ur by Grace, the Law was given as a gracious gift to lead us to Christ, and on and on until the culmination of all that scripture leads to--Jesus Christ, the Word and the Savior of the world.

When I read the scriptures, this is what I see on each page. Grace and the Person of God Himself as the Son--the Word.

I do believe and am convinced that this is a helpful perspective.

Yes. And salvation unto eternal live in the kingdom of God has always been by faith. The Law saved no one. Even then it was faith, just as it was with Abraham. And though the Law saved  no one, grace was even there as our tutor.

No one can earn salvation. No one can achieve their own salvation or that of any other, and no one deserves it. If it does not come by the grace of God it does not come at all.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Arial
I omitted a very important word

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, Arial said:

Yes. And salvation unto eternal live in the kingdom of God has always been by faith. The Law saved no one. Even then it was faith, just as it was with Abraham. And though the Law saved  no one, grace was even there as our tutor.

No one can earn salvation. No one can achieve their own salvation or that of any other, and one deserves it. If it does not come by the grace of God it does not come at all.

This is the Way.

[Dennis1209]

We all seem to have the same understanding of what Grace is and is not and why we desperately need it. I do not think my following question drifts too far off our discussion, and I am unaware of a biblical answer; perhaps I am missing it.

We all know because of one “man,” sin entered the world. Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

We know why Christ died on the Cross as a substitution for us paying the penalty for our redemption. There had to be a perfect sacrifice out of love, and Jesus had to be tested and tempted in every way possible that we are. Thus, Jesus was born 100% man and 100% God and lived a sinless life. I see similarities between the two families, flesh and blood, and the spiritual, heavenly host.

It seems the Lord created two families out of love for His reasons and purposes, human and spiritual (sons of God). We, too, also have the power to be grafted in by faith as sons of God:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

It appears humanity was created to comingle and associate with the heavenly host and will do so again. Some will be judging fallen angels, which leads me to.

Adam fell, leading to the fall of all humanity. Satan fell, leading to 1/3 of the spiritual family following him. Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Both families were created sinless. Questions arise:

·         Jesus died for humanity alone. Being 100% God, why did He not include the fallen angels in His redemptive plan on the Cross?

·         God is full of Grace beyond measure. Can or does His Grace extend to His fallen spiritual family as well? If not, why not?

[Alive]

18 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

We all seem to have the same understanding of what Grace is and is not and why we desperately need it. I do not think my following question drifts too far off our discussion, and I am unaware of a biblical answer; perhaps I am missing it.

We all know because of one “man,” sin entered the world. Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

We know why Christ died on the Cross as a substitution for us paying the penalty for our redemption. There had to be a perfect sacrifice out of love, and Jesus had to be tested and tempted in every way possible that we are. Thus, Jesus was born 100% man and 100% God and lived a sinless life. I see similarities between the two families, flesh and blood, and the spiritual, heavenly host.

It seems the Lord created two families out of love for His reasons and purposes, human and spiritual (sons of God). We, too, also have the power to be grafted in by faith as sons of God:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

It appears humanity was created to comingle and associate with the heavenly host and will do so again. Some will be judging fallen angels, which leads me to.

Adam fell, leading to the fall of all humanity. Satan fell, leading to 1/3 of the spiritual family following him. Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Both families were created sinless. Questions arise:

·         Jesus died for humanity alone. Being 100% God, why did He not include the fallen angels in His redemptive plan on the Cross?

·         God is full of Grace beyond measure. Can or does His Grace extend to His fallen spiritual family as well? If not, why not?

Scripture is silent on this question.

[Dennis1209]

26 minutes ago, Alive said:

Scripture is silent on this question.

That is what I suspected. I thought one of you might have some insight or recall something biblical about it.

[Anne2]

On 4/20/2023 at 9:48 AM, tim_from_pa said:

 

I personally believe in and assign so much more to the covenants than mainline Christianity does such as the folks do at that link, although they don't do a bad job at all explaining them.  For example, the promise of many nations given to Abraham is not fulfilled by his other wives or again,

Even this is covenantal. All wives, but only one of marriage covenant (ketuba). The other concubines.

Gen 25:5  And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6  But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.