Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[Vine Abider]

Last night I was reading in Watchman Nee's book, "The Glorious Church" and read something I'd not really thought about.  This is regarding how Adam and Eve were a picture of Christ and the church.  A rib was taken out of the first Adam to make his counterpart, Eve.  And we are told in Ephesians by Paul that husbands and wives are a demonstration of Christ and the church. Eve came out of the first Adam and the church came out of the last Adam (Christ - 1 Cor 15:45).

But the point that got me in Nee's writings was this: The picture of God "building a woman" (lit Hebrew of Genesis 2:22) from Adam's rib happens in chapter two, which is before the fall.  Therefore, sin was not involved with Eve being produced.  He goes on to say that the church is produced apart from sin.  That is, Christ's atonement and redemption is so thorough and complete that now the church is produced totally outside the realm of sin.  WOW - interesting thought!

So I'm chewing on what that means and am curious as to others' thoughts . . .

Jesus said: "I will build My church."

"That He might present her to Himself as a glorious church without spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Matthew 16:18 & Ephesians 5:27

[Mr. M]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

A rib was taken out of the first Adam to make his counterpart, Eve.

John 19:33-37 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, Not one of His bones shall be broken. And again another Scripture says, They shall look on Him whom they pierced.

 

[JimmyB]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Last night I was reading in Watchman Nee's book, "The Glorious Church" and read something I'd not really thought about.  This is regarding how Adam and Eve were a picture of Christ and the church.  A rib was taken out of the first Adam to make his counterpart, Eve.  And we are told in Ephesians by Paul that husbands and wives are a demonstration of Christ and the church. Eve came out of the first Adam and the church came out of the last Adam (Christ - 1 Cor 15:45).

But the point that got me in Nee's writings was this: The picture of God "building a woman" (lit Hebrew of Genesis 2:22) from Adam's rib happens in chapter two, which is before the fall.  Therefore, sin was not involved with Eve being produced.  He goes on to say that the church is produced apart from sin.  That is, Christ's atonement and redemption is so thorough and complete that now the church is produced totally outside the realm of sin.  WOW - interesting thought!

So I'm chewing on what that means and am curious as to others' thoughts . . .

Jesus said: "I will build My church."

"That He might present her to Himself as a glorious church without spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Matthew 16:18 & Ephesians 5:27

The idea that sin was not involved with Eve being produced cannot be true of her production. Eve sinned against God first, so how did she acquire sin if not from Adam?  I believe that Adam had sin from the beginning -- there are two accounts of his creation.  

Genesis 1:26-27, "Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.”

God created humankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them,
male and female he created them.

Genesis 2:7, "The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."  Genesis 2:27, "So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was asleep, he took part of the man’s side and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man."

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Last night I was reading in Watchman Nee's book, "The Glorious Church" and read something I'd not really thought about.  This is regarding how Adam and Eve were a picture of Christ and the church.  A rib was taken out of the first Adam to make his counterpart, Eve.  And we are told in Ephesians by Paul that husbands and wives are a demonstration of Christ and the church. Eve came out of the first Adam and the church came out of the last Adam (Christ - 1 Cor 15:45).

But the point that got me in Nee's writings was this: The picture of God "building a woman" (lit Hebrew of Genesis 2:22) from Adam's rib happens in chapter two, which is before the fall.  Therefore, sin was not involved with Eve being produced.  He goes on to say that the church is produced apart from sin.  That is, Christ's atonement and redemption is so thorough and complete that now the church is produced totally outside the realm of sin.  WOW - interesting thought!

So I'm chewing on what that means and am curious as to others' thoughts . . .

Jesus said: "I will build My church."

"That He might present her to Himself as a glorious church without spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Matthew 16:18 & Ephesians 5:27

Hi VA,

I also do love to read Watchman Nee books of which I have many. Such great truths there explained so well. However, on this topic I have been taught differently. You and I agree on the basic truths yet there are a couple of topics we seem to disagree. But, saying that I do regard you as a dear brother in Christ and appreciate your kindly attitude when we do disagree.

We see that the Lord has already been (symbolically) betrothed to Israel.

`I will betroth you to me FOREVER; yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in lovingkindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

`your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name...` (Isa. 54: 5)

 

And note in Eph. 5 the Lord is exhorting the husbands to love their wives as Christ does His Body. And that `Body` is the New Man, not the new woman, so the pronoun is `it` not `her.` (KJ)

 

 

[Michael37]

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Last night I was reading in Watchman Nee's book, "The Glorious Church" and read something I'd not really thought about.  This is regarding how Adam and Eve were a picture of Christ and the church.  A rib was taken out of the first Adam to make his counterpart, Eve.  And we are told in Ephesians by Paul that husbands and wives are a demonstration of Christ and the church. Eve came out of the first Adam and the church came out of the last Adam (Christ - 1 Cor 15:45).

But the point that got me in Nee's writings was this: The picture of God "building a woman" (lit Hebrew of Genesis 2:22) from Adam's rib happens in chapter two, which is before the fall.  Therefore, sin was not involved with Eve being produced.  He goes on to say that the church is produced apart from sin.  That is, Christ's atonement and redemption is so thorough and complete that now the church is produced totally outside the realm of sin.  WOW - interesting thought!

So I'm chewing on what that means and am curious as to others' thoughts . . .

Jesus said: "I will build My church."

"That He might present her to Himself as a glorious church without spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Matthew 16:18 & Ephesians 5:27

Yes, I recall this beautiful comparison. Both Adam and Eve were sinless creations, as were the Universe and the World until they all became corrupt, but there are signposts in Scripture pointing to deliverance from that corrupt state. Paul's metaphor of presenting the church as the chaste wife of Christ is such a signpost, but notice also the analogy of the serpent at work.

Consider 

Rom 8:19-21  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.  (20)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;  (21)  because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

2Co 11:2-4  For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.  (3)  But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.  (4)  For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

Good thread, keep 'em comin'.

[Marilyn C]

35 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Yes, I recall this beautiful comparison. Both Adam and Eve were sinless creations, as were the Universe and the World until they all became corrupt, but there are signposts in Scripture pointing to deliverance from that corrupt state. Paul's metaphor of presenting the church as the chaste wife of Christ is such a signpost, but notice also the analogy of the serpent at work.

Consider 

Rom 8:19-21  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.  (20)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;  (21)  because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

2Co 11:2-4  For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.  (3)  But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.  (4)  For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

Good thread, keep 'em comin'.

Hi Michael,

In 2 Cor. 11: 2 - 4 the apostle Paul is speaking to HIS disciples, telling them he desires them to be pure and that HE will present them to the Lord. Paul DOES NOT present us to the Lord, for it is the Lord Himself who will present us to Himself.

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling AND TO PRESENT YOU faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy...` (Jude 24)

[Michael37]

55 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Michael,

In 2 Cor. 11: 2 - 4 the apostle Paul is speaking to HIS disciples, telling them he desires them to be pure and that HE will present them to the Lord. Paul DOES NOT present us to the Lord, for it is the Lord Himself who will present us to Himself.

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling AND TO PRESENT YOU faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy...` (Jude 24)

Paul's letter is addressed to the church of God in Corinth, with implications for all churches.

Not really a contentious issue in my view.

[Marilyn C]

Just now, Michael37 said:

Paul's letter is addressed to the church of God in Corinth, with implications for all churches.

Not really a contentious issue in my view.

So, Michael, who is presenting you to the Lord - Paul or the Lord Himself?

Also, when Paul says `And I, brethren could not speak to you as spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.` (1 Cor. 3: 1) Do you take that as to you?

[Vine Abider]

On 6/2/2023 at 4:12 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

I also do love to read Watchman Nee books of which I have many. Such great truths there explained so well. However, on this topic I have been taught differently. You and I agree on the basic truths yet there are a couple of topics we seem to disagree. But, saying that I do regard you as a dear brother in Christ and appreciate your kindly attitude when we do disagree.

We see that the Lord has already been (symbolically) betrothed to Israel.

`I will betroth you to me FOREVER; yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in lovingkindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

`your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name...` (Isa. 54: 5)

 

And note in Eph. 5 the Lord is exhorting the husbands to love their wives as Christ does His Body. And that `Body` is the New Man, not the new woman, so the pronoun is `it` not `her.` (KJ)

 

 

I read this last night in Nee's aforementioned book, "The Glorious Church" and was taken by it's simple explanation of the picture of Christ and the church presented in Adam and Eve!  Below is the first three pages of chapter 3, where Nee explains this. (please forgive the formatting as this was scanned by an OCR program)

(I'm chewing on his stating that "the body of Christ" is always referred to in scripture as a present reality, whereas all the mentions of "the bride of Christ" are future tense . . .)

What a picture of Christ & His church we have with Adam & Eve!!!

 

 CHAPTER THREE

THE BODY OF CHRIST AND THE
BRIDE OF CHRIST

We have already seen how Eve typifies the Church in
God's plan. In God's plan all that is of the Church is com-
pletely out of Christ. It contains nothing of man and has
no relationship whatever with sin. Our God is determined to
have such a Church. Anything less than this can never satisfy
His heart. He not only planned this kind of Church, but He

is going to obtain it. Hallelujah! It is a fact! We must_
realize that our God can never be hindered or frustrated.
When He purposes something, though Hades and all creation's
forces rise to oppose Him, He cannot be resisted. Though we
are fallen and full of failure, though we are fleshly and soulish
departing far from God and disobeying Him, yet God will still
attain His purpose. No matter what man does, he cannot ruin,
God's plan; at the most he can only delay it. So we must not
only realize God's purpose, but also be clear that God will
fully attain what He has purposed. From eternity God pur-
posed to obtain a Church completely out of Christ, a Church
containing no impurity of man, no element of earth, nor any
savor of sin. Every part of her is something out of Christ, and
Christ is her very life.

But, beginning with Genesis 3, man fell. So now we
have not only the fact of God's purpose in creation, but also
the fact of man's fall. Let us see, then, the way God has
devised to amend the situation.

Ephesians 5: 25-30 says: "Husbands, love your wives,
even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for
it; that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing
of water with the word, that he might present the church to
himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any

such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish'
Even so ought husbands also to love their own wives as their

own bodies. He that loveth his own wife loveth himself: for

no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth

it, even as Christ also the church; because we are members of

his body."

These six verses of Scripture may be divided into two
sections: the first, consisting of verses 25-27, tells us the first
reason why husbands should love their wives; the second,
verses 28-30, tells us the second reason husbands should
love their wives. In these two sections we see two com-
mands to love the wife, and we see also two reasons. But
there is a difference between these two sections. The first
section says that Christ "loved" the Church and "gave" Himself
for her-these verbs are all in the past tense. But, beginning
with verse 28, the verbs are all in the present tense, such as
"nourish" and "cherish." These two portions of Scripture,

. therefore, are of different elements of time-one section refers
to something of the past, and the other to the present.

The subjects of these two sections are also different. The
 first section refers to the Church as the Bride of Christ, and the
second speaks of the Church as the Body of Christ. In the
first section, when the Church is referred to as the Bride of.
Christ, the past tense is used. Why? Because the whole
purpose of Christ, thus revealed to us, is to have a Bride. Even
His death was for this purpose, that He might obtain a Bride.
Although He will obtain His Bride in the future, yet the work
pas been finished in the past. And, what about the present?
The Church today is the Body of Christ, and the Lord is
presently nourishing and cherishing His Church.

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE BODY
AND THE BRIDE

In the Lord's eyes, the Church has two positions: as to
her life, the Church is the Body of Christ, but regarding her
future, she is the Bride of Christ. As to the union of Christ
with the Church. the Church is His Body; regarding the inti-

mate relationship of Christ with the Church, the Church is His

Wherever God's Word speaks of the oneness between

Christ and the Church, we see Christ as the Head and the
Church as His Body. Wherever the Word shows the distinc-
tion between Christ and the Church, we see the Church as the
Bride to Christ. It is true that Adam and Eve were spoken of
as two becoming "one flesh," but they were still two persons;
God still counted them as two. Adam was still Adam, and
Eve was still Eve. They were two united to be one. This is
the relationship between the Church and Christ. From one
they became two, and from two they became one. When God
first created man, He made male and female. Eve came out from
Adam; thus, she and Adam were one. Even so, the Church
comes out from Christ; therefore, the Church and Christ are
also one. However, since Adam and Eve both existed at the
same time, there was a distinction between them. Likewise,
since the Church and Christ coexist, there is also a distinction
between them. Regarding oneness, they are one, but as to
the matter of distinction, they differ from each other.

These two different positions have to do with the differ-
ence in time. Today the Church is the Body of Christ, but in
the future the Church will be the Bride of Christ. The Church
today is the Body of Christ for the purpose of manifesting the
life of Christ. One day, when the Church is mature in life.
God will bring the Church to Christ, and in that day she will
become the Bride of Christ. Some people think that the
Church is the Bride of Christ today, but this is wrong. There
is no such thing. Since the Lord Jesus is not yet the Bride-
groom, how could the Church already be His Bride? No, not
until that day when the work of the Church as the Body of
Christ has been accomplished will God bring the Church to
Christ and she will become His Bride.

 

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I read this last night in Nee's aforementioned book, "The Glorious Church" and was taken by it's simple explanation of the picture of Christ and the church presented in Adam and Eve!  Below is the first three pages of chapter 3, where Nee explains this. (please forgive the formatting as this was scanned by an OCR program)

(I'm chewing on his stating that "the body of Christ" is always referred to in scripture as a present reality, whereas all the mentions of "the bride of Christ" are future tense . . .)

 

Man says - the new man becomes the new woman.

God says - 

`I will betroth you to me FOREVER; yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in lovingkindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

`your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name...` (Isa. 54: 5)

 

Whose word do you believe?