Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[JimmyB]

9 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Huh?

[Your closest friendnt]

21 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The big obstacle for God to look upon, and have fellowship with, His creature, is His holiness. He is uncreated and the rest is created. The chasm between god and His creature is massive. Psalm 113:6 say that He must humble Himself just to look at creation. Before there ever was a man, Lucifer, the top angel, was declared "a COVERING Cherub" (Ezek.28:16).  This comes from the Ark and the Mercy Seat. Because God is so holy, he dwells behind a curtain and then two Cherubim "cover" the Mercy Seat for added separation.

Aaron and his sons after him were allowed to go in to have audience once a year. For this they had to have special sacrifices, special washings and special clothing. If they did one thing wrong they were struck dead on the spot. The rest of Levi's offspring could serve, some in the Holy Place and some in the Outer Court. The big disadvantage of this system was (i) the High Priest died and had to be replaced, (ii) the High Priest had to atone for himself with a special animal, (iii) the High Priest must atone for himself and the people annually, and (iv) the whole process did not take away sins because men are temporal.

So God, in order to clear the matter and make men worthy to be in His presence, institutes another priesthood. This Priesthood has no birth, no parents and no end. Why? To make the atonement ETERNAL. It is done once and then never repeated. Added to this, the Order of Melchizedek do not have to atone for themselves. They may freely pass through the heavenly Tabernacle. Next, the Priesthood of Melchizedek do not DIE. They abide in resurrection Life and cannot die. The serving High Priest of the heavenly tabernacle (and of the Church) is NEVER replaced. Finally, God has a permanent vehicle for fellowship with His creature without humbling Himself. the Priest of this Order is HOLY Himself. God can command the creature to come as often and as boldly as he likes because he does so on the shoulders of a Holy One.

The order of Melchizedek is FAAAR superior to the order of Aaron. Jesus is the New "Covering Cherub", but in effect does away with the Cherubim. And since our Lord passed through the heavenly Tabernacle that wonderful resurrection day, he becomes the ONLY way to the Father. He is the new Garden of Eden where men can have unlimited fellowship with the Most High. Aaron must approach with fear. We can now approach "boldly". Aaron might make a mistake and not be accepted. Christ is already fully accepted for ever.

@AdHoc

There is something that it can be said without using correct grammar or syntaxt.

By observation, we can use observation to lead us to the truth  facts..facts that can not be disputed.

When we have the one priesthood we do not have the other. 

We cannot have both priesthoods at the same time. 

When we had Melchizedek a priest (emphasis added) meeting Abraham and the people who were with him. 

And he brought something to them "bread and wine". 

This event took place while Abraham was still alive..and the people with him were also still alive. 

At this point it becomes a little complicated to put down in words the vision.

But the reader should try to connect to the vision on the mind of the poster.

And not trying to interpret the grammar...if the facts are given and are plain and are in the view of the reader...or are presented to the reader...

In this narative Melchizedek met Abraham and he brought bread and wine to him and to all the others while were still alive..

The prophetic Melhisedec in the Psalms should also do the same thing...because this is what identifies Melchizedek as soneone who worship the same God as Abraham and who went out to where Abraham was and the others to bring them the bread and wine...and they ate and revived...

Also in that narative that Abraham and the people with him they were feminized, in great need of the bread and wine..perhaps I say that not only because it was truth that the people were hungry but also to what I am alluring to of what we know it happened at some time later on...

Because none of the Levitical priesthood could neet Abraham while he lived...even though they will meet Abraham after they died because they will be recieved by him...but they will not have the bread and the vine Abraham was waiting for. ..because they also were gathered to Abraham with the same need.

The Melchizedek in the prophetic must meet Abraham and the people who were with him and bring them the kind of bread and wine which was not available to them while they lived...(we should understand that the Melchizedek at the time of Abraham was moved by God to bring to them bread and wine...enough for everyone.  .

Hope that I have given that away that the day will come that the prophetic Melhisedec will also bring the bread of Life and the vine...the blood that wines away the sins of people...and to get to Abraham he should also have to die and to have the bread of Life with him...and have shed his blood for their sins....And Abraham knew of that day and he rejoice...

And Adam and Eve were looking forward for that day when God will sent to them someone with the fruit of the tree of Life...because they were not allowed and God made it impossible for them to eat from the fruit of Life...and for obvious reasons if we understand that was about Jesus Christ who had to died first...

And Adam and Eve were waiting for the fruit of Life to be brought to them to where they were after they died...and of course they were waiting for the one who will bring it to them the one who had the bread of Life..

The poster does not have to say that Abraham never met anyone from the Levitical priesthood (whether a High Priest or just a Priest).

Someone should not say that Melchizedek was a High Priest...because he is projected as a Priest...of God.

(If someone knew who was the God of Abraham and who was the God of Melchizedek)

If all of them were having the same God...other words than the words "of the most High God" could have been used. But by studying the relevant facts at that time and in Later times...we can understand on our own that the God of Abraham and Melchzedek could not be identified by a name...as they were the Gods of the other people because he wanted to identify himself as the most High God...and He himself at a later time identify himself in the same way...

Melchizedek saying those words at that time he also identified of himself that he is having the same God as Abraham...(could that be derived from what we read in that part in the book of Genesis, I have not looked into it, but I have learned to believe that he also believed and worship the same God as Abraham. 

The Heart of the matter is that Abraham met someone that was not related to him...if we can say that...not being his brother or his Angle or one of his nephew or a descendant from Abraham which is very obvious but it is said to lead us to one of the next points.

Melchizedek said that for more than one reason, one of them is to inform the people of the surounding area and their Kings who always at that time went to war with the help of their Gods...that their Gods cannot hepl them to come Against Abraham because the God of Abraham who is protecting Abraham is stronger than their Gods and He fights with Abraham...

And thus Melchizedek acknowledged that the God of Abraham gave the victory to Abraham...that Abraham did not get the victory on his own strength...so they people would be afraid of Abraham because of his God and not of Abraham himself as not to idolize the person Abraham..

To go back to the earlier point which is that Abraham never met anyone from the Levitical priesthood or a high priest of the Levitical priesthood not even Aaron the first High Priest...

And at this point I am very cautious but the facts in the narative in Genesis is not point that Melchizedek was a High Priest at all..(if we understand the context of the title of a High Priest we can understand that on our own..we would have the group of Priest and then we can have their elected or ordained the High Priest from amongs them as it was in all other religions in their beibours and in the Levitical priesthood within the law of Moses.

And we should not ignore the fact that the prophetic in the Psalms it said something of a Pruest in the order of Melchizedek...again it not say a High Priest in the order of Melhisedec making Melhisedec a High Priest...which Melchizedek was not said to be a High Priest...But in the prophetic in the Psalms Melchizedek is spoken as a priest and not as a high priest...as the prophetic is spoken in the singular tense. 

And again I am trying to evaluate the issues at hand without bringing into my study the Hebrews comments but looking into the scriptures of Genesis and the Psalms...

Edited June 12, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Vine Abider]

32 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@AdHoc

There is something that it can be said without using correct grammar or syntaxt.

By observation, we can use observation to lead us to the truth  facts..facts that can not be disputed.

When we have the one priesthood we do not have the other. 

We cannot have both priesthoods at the same time. 

When we had Melchizedek a priest (emphasis added) meeting Abraham and the people who were with him. 

And he brought something to them "bread and wine". 

This event took place while Abraham was still alive..and the people with him were also still alive. 

At this point it becomes a little complicated to put down in words the vision.

But the reader should try to connect to the vision on the mind of the poster.

And not trying to interpret the grammar...if the facts already plain and in the view of the reader...

The poster does not have to say that Abraham never met anyone from the Levitical priesthood (whether a High Priest or just a Priest).

Someone should not say that Melchizedek was a High Priest...because he is projected as a Priest...of God.

(If someone knew who was the God of Abraham and who was the God of Melchizedek)

If all of them were having the same God...other words than the words "of the most High God" could have been used. But by studying the relevant facts at that time and in Later times...we can understand on our own that the God of Abraham and Melchzedek could not be identified by a name...as they were the Gods of the other people because he wanted to identify himself as the most High God...and He himself at a later time identify himself in the same way...

Melchizedek saying those words at that time he also identified of himself that he is having the same God as Abraham...(could that be derived from what we read in that part in the book of Genesis, I have not looked into it, but I have learned to believe that he also believed and worship the same God as Abraham. 

The Heart of the matter is that Abraham met someone that was not related to him...if we can say that...not being his brother or his Angle or one of his nephew or a descendant from Abraham which is very obvious but it is said to lead us to one of the next points.

Melchizedek said that for more than one reason, one of them is to inform the people of the surounding area and their Kings who always at that time went to war with the help of their Gods...that their Gods cannot hepl them to come Against Abraham because the God of Abraham who is protecting Abraham is stronger than their Gods and He fights with Abraham...

And thus Melchizedek acknowledged that the God of Abraham gave the victory to Abraham...that Abraham did not get the victory on his own strength...so they people would be afraid of Abraham because of his God and not of Abraham himself as not to idolize the person Abraham..

To go back to the earlier point which is that Abraham never met anyone from the Levitical priesthood or a high priest of the Levitical priesthood not even Aaron the first High Priest...

And at this point I am very cautious but the facts in the narative in Genesis is not point that Melchizedek was a High Priest at all..(if we understand the context of the title of a High Priest we can understand that on our own..we would have the group of Priest and then we can have their elected or ordained the High Priest from amongs them as it was in all other religions in their beibours and in the Levitical priesthood within the law of Moses.

And we should not ignore the fact that the prophetic in the Psalms it said something of a Pruest in the order of Melchizedek...again it not say a High Priest in the order of Melhisedec making Melhisedec a High Priest...which Melchizedek was not said to be a High Priest...But in the prophetic in the Psalms Melchizedek is spoken as a priest and not as a high priest...as the prophetic is spoken in the singular tense. 

And again I am trying to evaluate the issues at hand without bringing into my study the Hebrews comments but looking into the scriptures of Genesis and the Psalms...

Thanks for your involvement in this thread bro . . . but how does this relate to the thread's topic of "Adam & Eve - Christ and the church"?

[Your closest friendnt]

25 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks for your involvement in this thread bro . . . but how does this relate to the thread's topic of "Adam & Eve - Christ and the church"?

@Vine Abider 

I just edited my last post and I included something that refers to your question about Adam and Eve and in a little while if it's needed I will high light the relevance in another post with all due respect..

A relevance that even though may not be seen as a direct relevance but still significant and is not meant to take the thread in another direction...never my intent..which is to stay in the subject matter..and I see a relevance and hope that you may also see it in due time. 

Thanks for kind words and I will keep the request always in mind.

Thank you for this thread and God bless. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Vine Abider]

7 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Neither is right, which is why claiming that to claim God's promises one must use a single translation: the KJV.

 

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

 

3 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Huh?

I think I misunderstood - thought you were saying one must only use the KJV . . . sorry.

[JimmyB]

6 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

 

 

I think I misunderstood - thought you were saying one must only use the KJV . . . sorry.

The KJV is simply one of many translations.  While it was extremely significant in the history of English language translations I do not think it is the best.  Compared to modern translations it is both difficult to understand and is based on inferior sources.

[Anne2]

59 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@Vine Abider 

I just edited my last post and I included something that refers to your question about Adam and Eve and in a little while if it's needed I will high light the relevance in another post with all due respect..

A relevance that even though may not be seen as a direct relevance but still significant and is not meant to take the thread in another direction...never my intent..which is to stay in the subject matter..and I see a relevance and hope that you may also see it in due time. 

Thanks for kind words and I will keep the request always in mind.

Thank you for this thread and God bless. 

I am anticipating the connection you might bring here. As the Christ is KING/high priest and his Church is a priesthood of kings (12 thrones). There is a place somewhere it needs to fit in some way IMO.

I am also very glad about grammar and syntax not necessary. A weakness for me I admit LOL.

Blessings all

Edited June 12, 2023 by Anne2

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@AdHoc

There is something that it can be said without using correct grammar or syntaxt.

By observation, we can use observation to lead us to the truth  facts..facts that can not be disputed.

When we have the one priesthood we do not have the other. 

We cannot have both priesthoods at the same time. 

When we had Melchizedek a priest (emphasis added) meeting Abraham and the people who were with him. 

And he brought something to them "bread and wine". 

This event took place while Abraham was still alive..and the people with him were also still alive. 

At this point it becomes a little complicated to put down in words the vision.

But the reader should try to connect to the vision on the mind of the poster.

And not trying to interpret the grammar...if the facts are given and are plain and are in the view of the reader...or are presented to the reader...

In this narative Melchizedek met Abraham and he brought bread and wine to him and to all the others while were still alive..

The prophetic Melhisedec in the Psalms should also do the same thing...because this is what identifies Melchizedek as soneone who worship the same God as Abraham and who went out to where Abraham was and the others to bring them the bread and wine...and they ate and revived...

Also in that narative that Abraham and the people with him they were feminized, in great need of the bread and wine..perhaps I say that not only because it was truth that the people were hungry but also to what I am alluring to of what we know it happened at some time later on...

Because none of the Levitical priesthood could neet Abraham while he lived...even though they will meet Abraham after they died because they will be recieved by him...but they will not have the bread and the vine Abraham was waiting for. ..because they also were gathered to Abraham with the same need.

The Melchizedek in the prophetic must meet Abraham and the people who were with him and bring them the kind of bread and wine which was not available to them while they lived...(we should understand that the Melchizedek at the time of Abraham was moved by God to bring to them bread and wine...enough for everyone.  .

Hope that I have given that away that the day will come that the prophetic Melhisedec will also bring the bread of Life and the vine...the blood that wines away the sins of people...and to get to Abraham he should also have to die and to have the bread of Life with him...and have shed his blood for their sins....And Abraham knew of that day and he rejoice...

And Adam and Eve were looking forward for that day when God will sent to them someone with the fruit of the tree of Life...because they were not allowed and God made it impossible for them to eat from the fruit of Life...and for obvious reasons if we understand that was about Jesus Christ who had to died first...

And Adam and Eve were waiting for the fruit of Life to be brought to them to where they were after they died...and of course they were waiting for the one who will bring it to them the one who had the bread of Life..

The poster does not have to say that Abraham never met anyone from the Levitical priesthood (whether a High Priest or just a Priest).

Someone should not say that Melchizedek was a High Priest...because he is projected as a Priest...of God.

(If someone knew who was the God of Abraham and who was the God of Melchizedek)

If all of them were having the same God...other words than the words "of the most High God" could have been used. But by studying the relevant facts at that time and in Later times...we can understand on our own that the God of Abraham and Melchzedek could not be identified by a name...as they were the Gods of the other people because he wanted to identify himself as the most High God...and He himself at a later time identify himself in the same way...

Melchizedek saying those words at that time he also identified of himself that he is having the same God as Abraham...(could that be derived from what we read in that part in the book of Genesis, I have not looked into it, but I have learned to believe that he also believed and worship the same God as Abraham. 

The Heart of the matter is that Abraham met someone that was not related to him...if we can say that...not being his brother or his Angle or one of his nephew or a descendant from Abraham which is very obvious but it is said to lead us to one of the next points.

Melchizedek said that for more than one reason, one of them is to inform the people of the surounding area and their Kings who always at that time went to war with the help of their Gods...that their Gods cannot hepl them to come Against Abraham because the God of Abraham who is protecting Abraham is stronger than their Gods and He fights with Abraham...

And thus Melchizedek acknowledged that the God of Abraham gave the victory to Abraham...that Abraham did not get the victory on his own strength...so they people would be afraid of Abraham because of his God and not of Abraham himself as not to idolize the person Abraham..

To go back to the earlier point which is that Abraham never met anyone from the Levitical priesthood or a high priest of the Levitical priesthood not even Aaron the first High Priest...

And at this point I am very cautious but the facts in the narative in Genesis is not point that Melchizedek was a High Priest at all..(if we understand the context of the title of a High Priest we can understand that on our own..we would have the group of Priest and then we can have their elected or ordained the High Priest from amongs them as it was in all other religions in their beibours and in the Levitical priesthood within the law of Moses.

And we should not ignore the fact that the prophetic in the Psalms it said something of a Pruest in the order of Melchizedek...again it not say a High Priest in the order of Melhisedec making Melhisedec a High Priest...which Melchizedek was not said to be a High Priest...But in the prophetic in the Psalms Melchizedek is spoken as a priest and not as a high priest...as the prophetic is spoken in the singular tense. 

And again I am trying to evaluate the issues at hand without bringing into my study the Hebrews comments but looking into the scriptures of Genesis and the Psalms...

My dear and esteemed brother,

I entered into a discussion about Melchizedek when I should not have. I dishonored @Vine Abider who started this thread on another completely different subject. I have apologized and been graciously accepted. However much I like the subject of our High Priest, I do not want to repeat my mistake. I thank you for your reply, and I commend you on writing all that you did. I cannot understand all of your arguments, but if you take my posting on Melchizedek, and start a new thread on it. I will answer. But I must admit that I do not have much to add to it. And I must also admit that to understand an idea, we need grammar. It makes our statements coherent.

Thank you for your understanding and God bless.

AdHoc.

[Anne2]

11 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

My dear and esteemed brother,

I entered into a discussion about Melchizedek when I should not have. I dishonored @Vine Abider who started this thread on another completely different subject. I have apologized and been graciously accepted. However much I like the subject of our High Priest, I do not want to repeat my mistake. I thank you for your reply, and I commend you on writing all that you did. I cannot understand all of your arguments, but if you take my posting on Melchizedek, and start a new thread on it. I will answer. But I must admit that I do not have much to add to it. And I must also admit that to understand an idea, we need grammar. It makes our statements coherent.

Thank you for your understanding and God bless.

AdHoc.

He did say at the appropriate time, when they apply. So we will see

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

My dear and esteemed brother,

I entered into a discussion about Melchizedek when I should not have. I dishonored @Vine Abider who started this thread on another completely different subject. I have apologized and been graciously accepted. However much I like the subject of our High Priest, I do not want to repeat my mistake. I thank you for your reply, and I commend you on writing all that you did. I cannot understand all of your arguments, but if you take my posting on Melchizedek, and start a new thread on it. I will answer. But I must admit that I do not have much to add to it. And I must also admit that to understand an idea, we need grammar. It makes our statements coherent.

Thank you for your understanding and God bless.

AdHoc.

@AdHoc 

Hello valuable esteemed brother and committed member of the church of Jesus Christ. 

Our brother Vine Abider has title this thread as

"Adam and Eve-Christ and the Church".

While Adam and Eve our progenitors lived and died long time before Jesus Christ...and the same it can be said for Abraham and his descendants because even though Abraham was from Shem the son of Adam, even thought Shem was not the first born of Adam he was the first one to have children. 

Abraham was separated from Adam and the rest of the world while he lived and also after his died...and the same can be said for his chosen children. 

For that matter we should not include Abraham in "Adam and Eve" as in the title of this tread.

But the question is a lot more than that as the title of the tread attempts to show that Adam and Eve and even Abraham that are not part of the church of Jesus Christ when they are...

That what the prophetic in the Phalms is about and that is what "the Priest in the order of Melhisedec" attempts to establish.

That the "Prophetic Melchizedek" will go to where Abraham was, as in the narative in Genesis and bring to him the bread and the vine..

This illustration attempts to establish that Abraham and all who were with him and by extension Adam and Eve will partake of the bread and the vine of Jesus Christ and for that matter be part of the church of Jesus Christ. 

If the church of Jesus Christ consist of anyone who have partake of Jesus bread and wine...then they also are in him...in his church...

Those who belong in the church of Jesus Christ while they lived they  continuous to be part of the church of Jesus Christ after their death...after they have left their earthly body...or without their earthly body.

We can make the distinction of the church of Jesus Christ of the people who are still alive...and their ministry is to other member of the church of Jesus Christ who still live...

But their ministry also extents to others who are not members of the body of Christ and still alive to them they have to bring the bread and before they die...

Because the  bread and wine it is available to them in their life time..

But to others who had died before the  bread and wine was available for distribution the invitation to be partakers of the bread and wine of Jesus Christ had to be given to them to where they could be found...to Abraham where he was and to Adam and Eve to where they were...

JESUS had to go to them and bring to them the bread and the vine...if he is the Melchizedek in the prophetic. 

For this reason the church of Jesus Christ includes Adam and Eve and Abraham and everyone else who accepted the bread and vine offered to them from Jesus Christ who himself had to die to be able to go to where they were...

Jesus Christ had to die before beginning to offer the bread and wine to the people who had die before him and that would include Abraham who was glad to see this day and everyone with him and Adam and Eve to whom the promised was made that the day will come when the seed of the woman will bring the change when he will take the Keys from Death and Hades and those who will take of the bread and the vine will be set free...be in him...part of his church...even though without the body...like us who are part of his church now while we are alive and we will still be part of his church without the body..when we die.

We are in his church while in the body and also in his church when we do not have the body...when our body dies..

I understand that we have the communion of the members of the church when we are alive with those who are alive...but after we die we are still in the Church of Jesus and we have communion with the other members of the church who have also die and are not in their earthly body...we are not stopped being in the church of Jesus Christ...we are still in him.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Your closest friendnt