Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[JimmyB]

5 minutes ago, George said:

So she was born in sin?  Is this what you are implying?

Yes.  Adam and Eve had sin from the beginning.  The Bible doesn't specifically say when sin entered Adam and Eve, so one must assume that they had it from the start, prior to the serpent tempting Eve.

Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned"  That's the closest I know of to sin's origin.  Since Eve was tempted and she was created from Adam, he must have had sin from the start.

[JimmyB]

4 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

 

While there was not yet sin in the world, there was desire!

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

James 1:

14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 

15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin,

when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Adam received the commandment and therefore bore the responsibility of obedience.

Desire is a sin if its object is evil.

[Anne2]

On 6/2/2023 at 4:06 PM, JimmyB said:

The idea that sin was not involved with Eve being produced cannot be true of her production. Eve sinned against God first, so how did she acquire sin if not from Adam?  I believe that Adam had sin from the beginning -- there are two accounts of his creation.  

Genesis 1:26-27, "Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.”

God created humankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them,
male and female he created them.

Genesis 2:7, "The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."  Genesis 2:27, "So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was asleep, he took part of the man’s side and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man."

Hi Jimmy.

Could one being made one flesh in the marital covenant?

Why did Adam Call Eve,  the mother of all the living. I have never read Nee, so I do not know his ideas on this.

 

 

[George]

33 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

Yes.  Adam and Eve had sin from the beginning.  The Bible doesn't specifically say when sin entered Adam and Eve, so one must assume that they had it from the start, prior to the serpent tempting Eve.

 

35 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

Yes.  Adam and Eve had sin from the beginning.  The Bible doesn't specifically say when sin entered Adam and Eve, so one must assume that they had it from the start, prior to the serpent tempting Eve.

Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned"  That's the closest I know of to sin's origin.  Since Eve was tempted and she was created from Adam, he must have had sin from the start.

¹⁹ For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If you say that Adam and Eve already had sin ... then how does ONE man's disobedience make EVERYONE a sinner ... your logic is flawed.  

You have ONE man's sin that was committed because he had FREE WILL ... not because He was sinful.

Be blessed,

George

[Mr. M]

38 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

While there was not yet sin in the world, there was desire!

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

James 1:

14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 

15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin,

when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

@JimmyB, @Anne2,

Desire precedes the eventual sin. Eve acted on desire,

this is Adam's sin, having received the command.

[Mr. M]

35 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

Desire is a sin if its object is evil.

Sin is in the action. We overcome by resisting

the temptation that comes from the desire.

"Resist the devil, and he will flee".

2 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

[Anne2]

15 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

@JimmyB, @Anne2,

Desire precedes the eventual sin. Eve acted on desire,

this is Adam's sin, having received the command.

I can see this what you are saying, yes. Judaism teaches similarly.

Why would Adam call Eve the mother of all the living? The blessing of the one flesh concerning procreation, was before they sinned. Could it be the blessing of marriage covenant, still stands? 

It was not until Adam ate, that (eyes opened) they knew they were naked.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Anne2

[Mr. M]

1 minute ago, Anne2 said:

Could it be the blessing of marriage covenant, still stands?

Yes, Christ confirmed this.

Matthew 19:

3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?

4 And He answered and said to them, Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,

5 and said, For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? 

6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.

7 They said to Him, Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?

8 He said to them, Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 

9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.

[Mr. M]

6 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

I can see this what you are saying, yes. Judaism teaches similarly.

Why would Adam call Eve the mother of all the living? The blessing of the one flesh concerning procreation, was before they sinned. Could it be the blessing of marriage covenant, still stands? 

It was not until Adam ate, that (eyes opened) they knew they were naked.

 

Malachi 2:15 But did He not make them one,
Having a remnant of the Spirit?
And why one?
He seeks godly seed.
Therefore take heed to your spirit,
And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth.

Commitment to marriage protects the seed. 

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

[Anne2]

5 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Malachi 2:15 But did He not make them one,
Having a remnant of the Spirit?
And why one?
He seeks godly seed.
Therefore take heed to your spirit,
And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth.

Commitment to marriage protects the seed. 

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

I know this might be a repugnant subject But, Can't we at least put aside that for a moment and examine this subject is in scripture?

A concubine is a wife, without "ketuba" Hagar

A wife with "ketuba" (espoused) is a Covenant wife Sarah.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Anne2