Knowledge or Science, falsely so called.

[Mr. M]

1 Timothy 6:

20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings,

and oppositions of knowledge/science falsely so called:

21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Paul taught by the Holy Spirit. The Word of God by definition should prevail over the opposition from the ideas of man, and sciences, so called. Therefore, the prayers made on behalf of ministry outreach has to be directed towards the hearts of those who will hear the message. Prayer is an essential element of kingdom building. Assuming we can agree that prayer is submission first and foremost.

Colossians 4:2-6 Continue earnestly in prayer, being vigilant in it with thanksgiving; meanwhile praying also for us, that God would open to us a door for the word, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in chains, that I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak. Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Mr. M

[Who me]

9 hours ago, Mr. M said:

The Word of God by definition should prevail over the opposition from the ideas of man, and sciences, so called

Science means knowledge and what we call science, the process of investigation and research actually  depends on the Christian world view to work.

Creation reveals God's characteristics, his unchanging reasonableness, is seen in science.

Atheism cannot explain  why science and reason/logic works.

[FJK]

13 minutes ago, Who me said:

Atheism cannot explain  why science and reason/logic works.

Could you expand on this, I don't quite understand what you mean.

[Who me]

1 minute ago, FJK said:

Could you expand on this, I don't quite understand what you mean.

Evolution is based on the assumption that progress is through  random change.

Science, that is physics, chemistry and biology is based on the knowledge  that God created and sustains all THINGS.

How do you know that your computer will work tomorrow, or that reason will work tomorrow as it has today.

If random change is possible can you supply  a reason why it won’t  happen?

Only a Christian world view can do this.

[Ray12614]

True science is both observable and repeatable by definition.

So, based on the very definition of science . . . evolution is only a theory not fact nor provable since it has never been observed or repeated. . . . the big-bang creation is only a theory not fact for the same reasons . . . 

[FJK]

17 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

So, based on the very definition of science . . . evolution is only a theory .........

Actually, IMO, it's still in the Hypothesis stage but it's called a theory and taught as a law.

[AnOrangeCat]

19 minutes ago, FJK said:

Actually, IMO, it's still in the Hypothesis stage but it's called a theory and taught as a law.

This is pretty much the case, and it can be a bit misleading. Gravity is also considered theoretical because of how little we know about its underlying mechanics. There's a lot about gravity we can clearly observe. When so called scientists put evolution under the same umbrella as gravity they're doing a disservice.

48 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

So, based on the very definition of science . . . evolution is only a theory not fact nor provable since it has never been observed or repeated. . . . the big-bang creation is only a theory not fact for the same reasons . . . 

Somewhat true. I think the matter has been somewhat confused over the years because there's some truth to be found under the umbrella of what they call evolution. A lot of the things they call microevolution can be observed and repeated. Like if you got a bunch of cats with long hair together, bred them, and then only let the longhaired cats breed. Then when some of those cats had kittens that chanced into even longer fur you bred those together until the extra long fur became a dominant trait they would call that an example of microevolution.

There are problems with this. The first is that what they're calling microevolution has already been explained as genetics. The second is the assumption that because instances on the micro scale are true the macro scale must also be true. That's like saying "Because I can handle taking care of, feeding, and playing with large groups of housecats I can also handle large groups of lions." That sort of thought is considered a false equivalence, or in other words a logical fallacy.

I personally take a lot of "science" with a grain of salt these days. I don't throw it out the window entirely but a lot of it is going into the theoretical or it's just things being strung together to fit a particular narrative. Someone finds a whacky looking skeleton and it's "evidence" of a missing link and therefore "evidence" to support evolution. The thing is there are other potential explanations. The scientific community just doesn't want to explore them because it doesn't fit their narrative.

 

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Ray12614 said:

the big-bang creation is only a theory not fact for the same reasons . . . 

It is measurable ( Time ) and can be calculated, so it is more than theory.

[FJK]

41 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

It is measurable ( Time ) and can be calculated, so it is more than theory.

But can you define time without relying on time to define it?  Without time itself being necessary to use in the definition of time?

This sort of thing can get really interesting when you try to think it out.

[Mr. M]

2 hours ago, Ray12614 said:

True science is both observable and repeatable by definition.

So, based on the very definition of science . . . evolution is only a theory not fact nor provable since it has never been observed or repeated. . . . the big-bang creation is only a theory not fact for the same reasons . . . 

@FJK, @Who me,

The thread is not about the efficacy of science.

Yes true science by its very nature is observation of God in action.

Romans 1:20-22 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools.

The issue is the means of defeating the deceptions spun by unreasonable people, trying to use science to oppose the Creator of science, hence Paul's formulation 

13 hours ago, Mr. M said:

oppositions of science falsely so called

This thread, and as the discussion has turned also in "how do you know you are saved",

is the role of prayer in overcoming darkened hearts.

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may run swiftly and be glorified, just as it is with you, 2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; for not all have faith.

Notice that Paul is soliciting prayer, and essentially praying in the same breathe.

1 Thessalonians 5:

23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely;

and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless

at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 

24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.

25 Brethren, pray for us.