Do Christians Have Two Natures (a sin nature & a divine nature)?

[Vine Abider]

This is in response to a comment @Retrobyter said on another thread, that i was already planning to do a thread on (isn't it something how the Spirit brings things up like this in a couple of us at the same time?) So I read a wonderful book on this topic a while back, that really opened my eyes which was titled, "Birthright: Christian, Do You Know Who You Are?" by Needham. Anybody else read this?

But before posting the gist of this book, I thought to ask the question: Many would say Christians have both a sin nature and a divine nature, but what do you think scripture says about this (please show references)?

Edited June 17, 2023 by Vine Abider
Clarity

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I read a wonderful book on this topic a while back, that really opened my eyes titled, "Birthright: Christian, Do You Know Who You Are?" by Needham.

Many would say we have both a sin nature and a divine nature, but what do you think the word actually says about this?

No. We have flesh which tend to gravitate toward the world, but we died and were raised changed.

This was the point of Christ’s work…to solve the problem of Adam’s corruption.

May I suggest all readers read Salvation is Relocation?
 

Its really important to nail this stuff down, as it will prevent much confusion on so many issues.

[Vine Abider]

3 minutes ago, Alive said:

No. We have flesh which tend to gravitate toward the world, but we died and were raised changed.

This was the point of Christ’s work…to solve the problem of Adam’s corruption.

May I suggest all readers read Salvation is Relocation?
 

Its really important to nail this stuff down, as it will prevent much confusion on so many issues.

Indeed!  When a fellow crucified one says, "After all, I'm only a sinner, saved by grace" I have to ask them, "Are you identified as a sinner now?"

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Indeed!  When a fellow crucified one says, "After all, I'm only a sinner, saved by grace" I have to ask them, "Are you identified as a sinner now?"

I am a sinner, in that I still sin. Nobody, according to John, lives sinlessly.

[Mr. M]

22 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

This is in response to a comment @Retrobyter said on another thread, that i was already planning to do a thread on (isn't it something how the Spirit brings things up like this in a couple of us at the same time?) So I read a wonderful book on this topic a while back, that really opened my eyes that was titled, "Birthright: Christian, Do You Know Who You Are?" by Needham. Anybody else read this?

But before posting the gist of this book, I thought to ask the question: Many would say Christians have both a sin nature and a divine nature, but what do you think the word actually says about this (show references)?

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:

that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,

having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Man does not have a divine nature, he has been given access by

faith, In Christ. For example:

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority

to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.

Romans 8:

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits

for the manifestation of the sons of God.

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, 

even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption,

the redemption of our body.

Therefore, the question the Gospel answers is "can a man be fully redeemed

in his body to serve in this divine nature, fully overcoming the sin nature"?

The answer is yes, but on the caveat that "many are called, but few chosen",

i.e. will follow the apostolic doctrine explicitly.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves

from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Romans 8:

13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit

you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 

2 Timothy 2:21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel

for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth...

Again, this is found in Christ, as a part of His Body, which is why we are told:

Colossians 2:

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day,

or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (by religious observance, be it Law or tradition)

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.

Matthew 25:40 And the King will answer and say to them, Assuredly, I say to you, 

inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.

[JimmyB]

38 minutes ago, Alive said:

I am a sinner, in that I still sin. Nobody, according to John, lives sinlessly.

When a person is born again and becomes a part of the body of Christ, s/he is no longer a sinner (otherwise Christ has sin).  There is as much difference between a Christian who sins and a non-Christian who sins as there is between a person who enjoys an occasional glass of wine and an alcoholic.

Non-Christians have the sin nature of Adam.  Christians have the sin-free nature of Christ.

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

I am a sinner, in that I still sin. Nobody, according to John, lives sinlessly.

Yes we still sin as we carry the flesh, but this is not our identity now!  Hallelujah! 

In all the Pauline epistles, one would be hard pressed to find anywhere that regenerated ones are called sinners.  Rather we are called saints over and over, as part of the new creation in Christ.

Of course, Paul refers to himself as the chiefest of sinners in one place, but he is making a point as His to his background as a persecutor of Christ and His members.  Nowhere, I can find, does he call members of the body of Christ sinners now.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Vine Abider

[Alive]

11 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes we still sin as we carry the flesh, but this is not our identity now!  Hallelujah! 

In all the Pauline epistles, one would be hard pressed to find anywhere that regenerated ones are called sinners.  Rather we are called saints over and over, as part of the new creation in Christ.

Of course, Paul refers to himself as the chiefest of sinners in one place, but he is making a point as His to his background as a persecutor of Christ and His members.  Nowhere, I can find, does he call members of the body of Christ sinners now.

How do you then relate to Corinth?

Stating one is saint and set apart by God for a purpose, is not denying sin can be present. Jesus set a high bar. A brief thought can be sin.

Right?

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

Man does not have a divine nature, he has been given access by faith, In Christ.

This discussion is always interesting as many times there needs to be a definition of terms, as people often look at what the word "nature" means differently from one another.  Often, a Christian may think they have a "sin nature" since they still sometimes sin. And we are told sin dwells in the flesh in Romans 7:17, but is that really our nature?  What I see in scripture is an exhortation that we - who we really are - is not about the flesh. (Rom 8:9)  And we are to put off this flesh which is part of the old man/creation and crucify it.  In other words, don't identify with it or act according to it, because it is not who we have been made in Christ!

But again, I've experienced this topic's discussion to go round & round in the past, with good brothers who think differently of the word "nature" than I do . . .

To me, a living creature should only have one nature, otherwise it will behave in a seriously confused manner. So Christ took care of the old nature on the cross, and gave us a new one in Him. (however, God still left the flesh with us - I think to give us something to struggle with and prove His grace/supply in us)

Now as to not having a divine nature, what do you mean that "man does not have a divine nature"? Is Christ divine and is He in His believers and joined one Spirit with our spirit? (1 Cor 6:17)  (or perhaps you meant man before regeneration didn't have divine nature . . .)

[Vine Abider]

10 minutes ago, Alive said:

How do you then relate to Corinth?

Stating one is saint and set apart by God for a purpose, is not denying sin can be present. Jesus set a high bar. A brief thought can be sin.

Right?

I think Paul was exhorting the Corinthians to identify with the new creation they are now, and to put off concerning the old man - which is dead in Christ. 

Sure, lots of sin abounding there, but I don't see Paul actually called them sinners, did he?  That is, the standard in Christ is so much higher - they have a new life in them, and that's who they now are and should live according to that new life of Christ in them.

It's like a royal prince who runs off and forgets who he is.  He starts living a ruinous life and acting like a beggar . . . but that's not who he actually is.