Let's discuss Revelation 17

[douggg]

I have created this thread for discussion anything you want about Revelation 17.

I call Revelation 17 the great overview chapter because it gives insights to events taking place in previous chapters of Revelation 12 and Revelation 13, in particular.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi dougg,

Always good to chat with you even though we see some things differently. Maybe we are closer than we realise.

So, the `inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.` (Rev. 17: 2)

What philosophy, (if you agree) is making the world `drunk?` 

[douggg]

14 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi dougg,

Always good to chat with you even though we see some things differently. Maybe we are closer than we realise.

So, the `inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.` (Rev. 17: 2)

What philosophy, (if you agree) is making the world `drunk?` 

Hi Marilyn,

I just want to first note I intended for the thread to not be limited to discussion just with me.   But with others discussing with others, as well.

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imo, I think verse 2 is talking about the mutual benefit that the Vatican gets from recognition by the leaders of the nations, who seek to accommodate the Vatican, and in return for their accommodation, the leaders receive political power in the way of votes (in democratic countries) and approval from Catholics within their nations to keep the population satisfied.

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Edited June 18, 2023 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

1 minute ago, douggg said:

Hi Marilyn,

I just want to first note I intended for the thread to not be limited to discussion just with me.   But with others discussing with others, as well.

--------------------------------------

imo, I think verse 2 is talking about the mutual benefit that the Vatican gets from recognition by the leaders of the nations, who seek to accommodate the Vatican, and in return for their accommodation, the leaders receive political power in the way of votes (in democratic countries) and approval from Catholics within their nations to keep the population satisfied.

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Yes, when others wake up they will join the discussion.

Now, I do see that the Vatican does have a lot of influence on some world leaders, but its philosophy is not received by most of the inhabitants of the world.

[Marilyn C]

Also dougg, I don`t see the inhabitants of the world drunk on Roman Catholicism, nor do they get put in prison for not believing or following such teachings. 

[Revelation Man]

On 6/17/2023 at 11:57 PM, douggg said:

I have created this thread for discussion anything you want about Revelation 17.

I call Revelation 17 the great overview chapter because it gives insights to events taking place in previous chapters of Revelation 12 and Revelation 13, in particular.

 

Instead of going back and forth I will explain overall verse by verse what is going on. This is not per se about the RCC, the Rapture has come and gone, who are going to be following a LEFT BEHIND Religious Leader? This is about FALSE RELIGION getting judged, AND God uses the Anti-Christ to judge them, verses 16 and 17 say so. This chapter parallels with Rev. 8, 9 and 16 (Judgment or Wrath of God chapters). Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 all covers the exact same 42 months. Rev. 11 starts 75 days before the middle of the week.

Rev. 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

{{ So, John writes what the Angel tells him here, and then shows him what he means below via a vision. He says this Harlot sits on MANY WATERS, and has caused the kings of the earth to fornicate [against God] and the angel told him that the inhabitants of earth have been made DRUNK with the wine of her fornication. The Holy Spirit was the Churches "WINE" so to speak. This wine is referring unto ALL False Religions of all time, be it Jupiter, Zeus, Baal, et al, that is why she sits on many waters, she has be a worldwide phenom, all of the kings and all of the inhabitants, in each nation at some point have served false gods & false religion, BUT Babylon was noted for this, so below when the vision is given, God shows us THREE DESCRIPTORS of who this Harlot is, MYSTERY is simple a question mark (?) or header, followed by the three name tags that describes this Harlot. }}

The Vision is only Four Verses

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman(False Religion) sit upon a scarlet coloured beast(Apollyon the Demon/The Destroyer of Israel), full of names of blasphemy(served false gods), having seven heads(7 Kingdoms who ruled over the Mediterranean Region & Israel) and ten horns(The E.U., the Anti-Christs base nation). 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour(Represents Royalty and Religious Orders), and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness(All of these DESCRIBE her essence the NAME TAGS below DESCRIBE HER) of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery(Header ?), (1)Babylon The Great, (2)The Mother Of Harlots And (3)Abominations Of The Earth.6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus(Meaning she had the blood of both Israel and the Church on her hands): and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration(Means WONDERMENT).

MYSTERY (?)

1.) Babylon the Great ( Babylon was noted world wide for her FALSE RELIGION )

2.) Mother of Harlots ( FALSE RELIGION was the original Harlotry, thus the "Mother moniker" )

3.) Abominations of the Earth ( God is a jealous God, thus all worshiping of FALSE RELIGION angers Him )

The Angel now explains "THE MYSTERY" to the women, thus there has been no mystery in 2000 years.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore(why) didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

{{ Pay attention to words, they give huge clues, we are about to be told of the Mystery/Secret of this relationship and how this relationship ends. We are told about both The Beast Governments and Harlot False Religions. }}

Apollyon Revealed: The Scarlet Colored Beast John saw, the color and NO CROWNS means THIS TIME we are being told about these 7 Empires including the E.U. under the Anti-Christ, and how Apollyon Ruled or Beasted over them as a Principality in the air, in other words Apollyon was given the Mediterranean Sea Region to rule over, by Satan's authority, which of course included Israel. SEE BELOW:

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit(Scarlet Colored Demon named Apollyon), and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is

{{ Apollyon, as we know, ruled over the Region as a Demon placed there by Satan, he is the one who resisted Michael for 21 days in Dan. 10. Then for the duration of the Church Age God placed him in the bottomless pit where he was King (This is about the 8th King mentioned in the above verses, thus he WAS...IS NOT....AND YET IS }}

The ties between the 8th King (Apollyon) and the 7 headed 10 Horned Beast explained BELOW:

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains(7 Powers or Kingdom that AROSE, not 8 but only 7 physical world kingdoms over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region(MSR) while Israel was a Nation), on which the woman sitteth. (The Harlot False Religions were comingled with these Gov. Beasts from the beginning, hence the Harlot RIDES the Beast in verse 7)

10 And there are seven kings(This is not about the 7 Mountains/Powers WHO ARISE, these are the Kings in place when each Kingdom FALLS): five are fallen(Past tense, so we know who they are, Egypt to Greece), and one is (Rome BUT REMEMBER, this is only about the Kings who fall, thus we know Rome eventually fell), and the other is not yet come(Anti-Christ who becomes the Beast when he Conquers Israel and the MSR) ; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space(The Anti-Christs reign = 42 months). 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

{{ Apollyon is an 8th King in that he is the king of the bottomless pit, but he was also over the MSR and Israel whilst Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome ruled over the area as Beasts. He thus WAS.....but then God placed him in the  pit, thus he WAS NOT or IS NOT.....finally Apollyon is released at the 1st Woe, and thus his STILL IS....because he is of all Seven Kingdoms as vs. 11 says, so he will be over the Anti-Christ. }}  

12 And the ten horns(E.U.) which thou sawest are ten kings(Complete Europe Reunited), which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast(42 months). 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast(The Anti-Christ will be voted in by the E.U. Parliament.)

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues(Self explanatory).

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire

{{ The E.U. Powers that be will not be like the other 6 Government Beasts, they will want to Worship the Anti-Christ/E.U. President as their god, thus they forbid all religions in their whole kingdom, thus they KILL OFF the Harlot False Religions. }}

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

{{ So, God JUDGES these False Religions, via the Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings/The E.U. who kill off these False Religions out of vanity, the Anti-Christ demands to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD, there is no place for any other gods or Religions save for Beast Worship, God Himself will judge that False Religion via Jesus' Second Coming. }}

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. 

{{ Not Rome, not Jerusalem, not New York City, not London, not Saudi Arabia, not Egypt, but Babylon is what John SAW.........And Babylon in this vision stood for what? ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. So, Satan has turned mankind into a mass of confused people who serve the Creation and other men over their own loving Creator. }} 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Revelation Man

[douggg]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Instead of going back and forth I will explain overall verse by verse what is going on. This is not per se about the RCC, the Rapture has come and gone, who are going to be following a LEFT BEHIND Religious Leader? This is about FALSE RELIGION getting judged, AND God uses the Anti-Christ to judge them, verses 16 and 17 say so.

False Religion is associated with Rome, the seven mountains upon which the woman sits, verse 9 ?

What about Islam and Hinduism ?   Aren't those false religions ?

[douggg]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

{{ Not Rome, not Jerusalem, not New York City, not London, not Saudi Arabia, not Egypt, but Babylon is what John SAW.........And Babylon in this vision stood for what? ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. So, Satan has turned mankind into a mass of confused people who serve the Creation and men over their own loving Creator. }} 

There were not any false religions in the garden of eden when the first person was slain.

Mystery Babylon the Great is responsible for all slain upon the earth.   Revelation 18:24.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

 

[douggg]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

10 And there are seven kings(This is not the Mountains/Powers WHO ARISE, these are the Kings in place when each Kingdom FALLS): five are fallen(Past tense, so we know who they are, Egypt to Greece), and one is(Rome BUT REMEMBER, this is only about the Kings WHO FALL, this we know Rome eventually fell), and the other is not yet come(Anti-Christ who becomes the Beast when he Conquers Israel and the MSR) ; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space(The Anti-Christs reign = 42 months). 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

In Revelation 17:10, it says kings, not kingdoms.     The 7 kings are all of one kingdom.

Revelation Man,  you need to work on perfecting your terminology regarding the arch-villain of the end times. 

The person is "the Antichrist" only for the period of time he is in the role of being the phony King of Israel.    Which is most of the first half of the seven years.

For the 42 months, which is basically the second half of the seven years, he is no longer the Antichrist the phony King of Israel, but has become "the beast king", dictator of the EU.

Work on those two things, when to refer to the person as "the Antichrist" and when to refer to the person as "the beast king".

The person as the Antichrist phony King of Israel is not even in Revelation 17.     The person is in Revelation 17 as king 7 and 8 - of the Roman Empire (the EU in the end times).

______________________________________________________

little horn - leader of the EU ten kings.   King 7 of the Roman Empire (the EU in the end times)

then becomes the prince who shall come following Gog/Magog

then becomes "the Antichrist", phony King of Israel

then becomes the revealed man of sin - time as the Antichrist, phony king of Israel is over at that point.

then becomes "the beast king" -   King 8 of the Roman Empire (the EU in end times), dictator of the EU, the kingdom of the ten kings

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by douggg

[Shilohsfoal]

56 minutes ago, douggg said:

In Revelation 17:10, it says kings, not kingdoms.     The 7 kings are all of one kingdom.

Revelation Man,  you need to work on perfecting your terminology regarding the arch-villain of the end times. 

The person is "the Antichrist" only for the period of time he is in the role of being the phony King of Israel.    Which is most of the first half of the seven years.

For the 42 months, which is basically the second half of the seven years, he is no longer the Antichrist the phony King of Israel, but has become "the beast king", dictator of the EU.

Work on those two things, when to refer to the person as "the Antichrist" and when to refer to the person as "the beast king".

The person as the Antichrist phony King of Israel is not even in Revelation 17.     The person is in Revelation 17 as king 7 and 8 - of the Roman Empire (the EU in the end times).

______________________________________________________

little horn - leader of the EU ten kings.   King 7 of the Roman Empire (the EU in the end times)

then becomes the prince who shall come following Gog/Magog

then becomes "the Antichrist", phony King of Israel

then becomes the revealed man of sin - time as the Antichrist, phony king of Israel is over at that point.

then becomes "the beast king" -   King 8 of the Roman Empire (the EU in end times), dictator of the EU, the kingdom of the ten kings

 

Benjamin netanyahu is the phony king of Israel.But that's who Babylon wanted so that what Babylon got.