Any thoughts on this?

[Starise]

10 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

It's more than just quitting the sin, God's Word is saying we must confess and forsake out sin in order to have mercy.

How does one foresake a sin that involves addiction? It isn't always a day one process. "Foresaking" sometimes takes time. Even then, you still sin, we all do until we are perfected in the Lord.

 

10 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

If one accepts the whole counsel of God then the conclusion has to be it is entirely possible for one to lose their salvation.

In pretty much every conversation I've had with the OSAS crowd, they end up ignoring things the Lord has said or attempt to explain them away because some things in God's Word does not fit the narrative they believe in.

NO. This argument really involves cherry picking verses to attempt to make your point.

10 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

And this involve confessing the wrong doing and quitting the wrong doing.  Without these two items there is no making up and the relationship remains severed.

God is not mocked... if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8) which clearly means one is no longer in right standing with the Lord and their sin has separated them from the Lord. (Isaiah 59:2, Romans 8:13)

Sin can surely seperate us from the Lord but it never unsaves us if we were saved to begin with.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

26 minutes ago, Starise said:

How does one foresake a sin that involves addiction? It isn't always a day one process. "Foresaking" sometimes takes time. Even then, you still sin, we all do until we are perfected in the Lord.

They call it sin, ask for forgiveness, throw away all their paraphernalia, burn the bridges to all their dope dealers, and quit!

I'm a former drunk and drug addict and I can tell you from experience it CAN be done and the Lord will help and empower people to quit if they do what I described above and make no provisions for the flesh (Romans 13:14)

Making excuses for sin only results in people continuing in sin

 

27 minutes ago, Starise said:

NO. This argument really involves cherry picking verses to attempt to make your point.

Yes,. the OSAS crowd has to cherry pick scripture to continue believing their false doctrine.

 

28 minutes ago, Starise said:

Sin can surely seperate us from the Lord but it never unsaves us if we were saved to begin with.

That's what the OSAS crowd says down at Cherry Pickers R US, Inc




 

[AnOrangeCat]

33 minutes ago, Starise said:

How does one foresake a sin that involves addiction? It isn't always a day one process. "Foresaking" sometimes takes time. Even then, you still sin, we all do until we are perfected in the Lord.

I agree with this very strongly. God knows we're not perfect and takes that into account. I disagree with OSAS but I do strongly believe that how we deal with our sins matters in God's eyes. Are we putting up a fight or not? Does it still bother us on some level or have we reached the point where a sin doesn't prick our conscience in the slightest? At least to my thinking that makes the difference between willfully wallowing in our sins and trying to overcome them with God's grace. Even in the former case God can still work on us.

[Starise]

10 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

They call it sin, ask for forgiveness, throw away all their paraphernalia, burn the bridges to all their dope dealers, and quit!

I'm a former drunk and drug addict and I can tell you from experience it CAN be done and the Lord will help and empower people to quit if they do what I described above and make no provisions for the flesh (Romans 13:14)

Making excuses for sin only results in people continuing in sin

Are you telling me you dropped all of it immeditely and never did it again?

 

It does happen that way for some people, but for the vast majority, these things take some time to work through.

MOST people I speak with say they stopped it for the most part, but sometimes had a recurrent urge or temptation. If they really prayed through and ran from it, they made it through. If they were weak, they slipped up and did it again, even if it was only briefly. 

The real problem with this is in thinking WE did something to stop it. If there is any advance, God does it. I think it sends the wrong message to people to tell them they are basically lost if they slip up through their weaknesses.I'm not endorsing sin, I'm simply saying even if we have the desire to quit, sometimes it isn't enough.

[Starise]

11 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I agree with this very strongly. God knows we're not perfect and takes that into account. I disagree with OSAS but I do strongly believe that how we deal with our sins matters in God's eyes. Are we putting up a fight or not? Does it still bother us on some level or have we reached the point where a sin doesn't prick our conscience in the slightest? At least to my thinking that makes the difference between willfully wallowing in our sins and trying to overcome them with God's grace. Even in the former case God can still work on us.

If it doesn't bother us, I think something is definitely wrong. WILLFUL premediated sin with no desire to repent and no guilt probably isn't talking about a saved person.

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

4 hours ago, Starise said:

"Foresaking" sometimes takes time.

What if it was a child molester?  Are you OK with them molesting fewer kids than they were?

What about murder?  Killing fewer people than the number previously murdered is all good?

God gave man the ability to choose what he's going to do and what he's not going to do... so this doesn't work with the Lord.

Claiming it takes time to stop doing what we know we should not be doing but we gonna do it anyway... is still living in sin.

James 4:17
to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Drug addicts know doing dope is a sin, and they makes excuses claiming "I'm trying to quit" as they call their supplier to buy more dope.


 

3 hours ago, Starise said:

Are you telling me you dropped all of it immediately and never did it again?

I never said I never backslid.. I did, for several years and in that time I was not playing games with the Lord claiming I was still saved because I was not!

This is the issue, admit it and quit it!  Otherwise, you won't go to Heaven if you are still walking in sin.

Let's not make excuses for sinful behavior as this causes people to stumble and believe that while they are "trying to quit" they are still in right standing with the Lord because they are not.

Unless you'd like to make the claim that Christians can willingly and knowingly live in sin and be good with God?

That's what the devil told Adam and Eve in the garden is you can sin against God and it's all good... and that is a trap of the devil.

If one believes in OSAS, they have to acknowledge that they do not believe in sowing and reaping as they claim when Christians sin it does not separate them from God.  The wages of sin is still spiritual death (separation from God) and we still reap what we sow as God cannot be mocked!

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death

Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

When we sin, we reap corruption and unless we turn away from our sin and confess it to the Lord... live everlasting is no longer applicable to us because we are not abiding in Christ when we sin.

There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5) so nobody abiding in Christ are willingly or knowingly doing sinful things.

 

3 hours ago, Starise said:

The real problem with this is in thinking WE did something to stop it.

Blaming God for one's addictions is a sin as well.

Saying God does everything is in fact claiming that it's God's fault if one lives in sin.

We are co laborers WITH God (1 Corinthians 3:9) as we do have a part to play in this and we WILL be held accountable for our decisions.  If I choose to go do drugs and get stoned, it's not God's fault and it's not Him that failed to stop me from doing drugs or whatever sin it is people are doing.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

What if it was a child molester?  Are you OK with them molesting fewer kids than they were?

What about murder?  Killing fewer people than the number previously murdered is all good?

God gave man the ability to choose what he's going to do and what he's not going to do... so this doesn't work with the Lord.

Claiming it takes time to stop doing what we know we should not be doing but we gonna do it anyway... is still living in sin.

James 4:17
to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Drug addicts know doing dope is a sin, and they makes excuses claiming "I'm trying to quit" as they call their supplier to buy more dope.


 

I never said I never backslid.. I did, for several years and in that time I was not playing games with the Lord claiming I was still saved because I was not!

This is the issue, admit it and quit it!  Otherwise, you won't go to Heaven if you are still walking in sin.

Let's not make excuses for sinful behavior as this causes people to stumble and believe that while they are "trying to quit" they are still in right standing with the Lord because they are not.

Unless you'd like to make the claim that Christians can willingly and knowingly live in sin and be good with God?

That's what the devil told Adam and Eve in the garden is you can sin against God and it's all good... and that is a trap of the devil.

If one believes in OSAS, they have to acknowledge that they do not believe in sowing and reaping as they claim when Christians sin it does not separate them from God.  The wages of sin is still spiritual death (separation from God) and we still reap what we sow as God cannot be mocked!

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death

Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

When we sin, we reap corruption and unless we turn away from our sin and confess it to the Lord... live everlasting is no longer applicable to us because we are not abiding in Christ when we sin.

There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5) so nobody abiding in Christ are willingly or knowingly doing sinful things.

 

Blaming God for one's addictions is a sin as well.

Saying God does everything is in fact claiming that it's God's fault if one lives in sin.

We are co laborers WITH God (1 Corinthians 3:9) as we do have a part to play in this and we WILL be held accountable for our decisions.  If I choose to go do drugs and get stoned, it's not God's fault and it's not Him that failed to stop me from doing drugs or whatever sin it is people are doing.

 

Sounds familiar. It's what the United Pentecostal Church teaches:

You're saved... made an error, now you're not saved. Confess the error, you're saved again. Mess up again, you're not saved. And so on.

I wonder how many times per day a Oneness Pentecostal is saved and unsaved. 

[Starise]

14 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Sounds familiar. It's what the United Pentecostal Church teaches:

You're saved... made an error, now you're not saved. Confess the error, you're saved again. Mess up again, you're not saved. And so on.

I wonder how many times per day a Oneness Pentecostal is saved and unsaved. 

Yep. Imagine sinning and then dying before you had a chance to repent. Whoops that one didn’t make it.

@Stan Murff I’m on my phone, so my comments are not as long as usual. Remember when David sinned he said, “Lord restore to me the JOY of my salvation.”

He didn’t ask for restoration of his salvation. In fact many of the kingpins of the Bible slipped up royally. Judas was never really saved to begin with.
 

 

[Scott Free]

14 hours ago, Marathoner said:

I wonder how many times per day a Oneness Pentecostal is saved and unsaved.

Yeah, our individual fates where known before the foundations of the Earth was laid. God says He will not loose any of His children. It seems impossible for God to allow one of His children to die before coming to salvation.

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day." John 6:39
 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Scott Free

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

17 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Sounds familiar. It's what the United Pentecostal Church teaches:

You're saved... made an error, now you're not saved. Confess the error, you're saved again. Mess up again, you're not saved. And so on.

I wonder how many times per day a Oneness Pentecostal is saved and unsaved. 

Yeah, I've run in to lots of folks that don't like some of the things the Lord says in His Word.  This produces strife between themselves and the Lord and they don't realize it.

Children n of disobedience refusing to accept the call of the Lord to “Come out from them and be separate as the Lord instructs His people to touch not that which is  unclean thing so He can receive us” (2 Corinthians 6:17).... might see it that way.

Those that are obedient unto the Lord's calling "put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof (Romans 13:14) so they don't live in sin and they imitate the Lord as dear children (Ephesians 5:1).

1 Peter 1:15-17
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear



 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Stan Murff