Is this Correct Teaching???

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

1 John 2:19 states that if one can depart from the faith, they were never of the faith (saved) to begin with.

Wrong.  One cannot fall away from something they were never in in the first place.

There's numerous warnings in the New Testament that say people turn away from the faith.

Those that were never born again cannot fall away from the faith because they were never in the faith in the first place.

The concept you are speaking of came from the false teachings of John Calvin and claims God does everything as though man is a robot

Sure, Jesus did the work to pay for salvation for ALL men... but it's each individual's responsibility to answer the call, turn from their sin, and abide in Christ which of course the Lord helps us with as we go forward with Him.

Jesus said those that don't believe will be damned... you're not suggesting Jesus doesn't know that it's God's fault they didn't believe because God failed to "elect" than are ya?






 

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

Did Peter deny Jesus three times and repent in teers?  Was Jesus in him and he in Jesus. 

Yes, he repented and was received back.  And after Christ's resurrection He became born-again of the Spirit, to become a child of God - he was in Christ & Christ was in Peter.  So then Peter had God's eternal life.  

What is born cannot be unborn, and nowhere in nature does this happen.  It certainly doesn't happen with believers who are joined to the Lord's Spirit in them, as per 1 Cor 6:17.

Of course, His children still do dumb things that need to be repented of, but God doesn't kill His children because of that, He disciplines us.

[Vine Abider]

13 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

That's funny.  Thanks for the chuckle!

Yeah, so if one does not enter in to God's Kingdom that means they go to hell.

Find me that verse bro.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

That would put the New Testament beginning at Matthew 27:50.

Matthew 6:14-15 is well before this point and is under the Old Testament Law.

The entire Sermon on the Mount was Jesus' divine commentary on the mishandling of the Law and his correction of it.

That's false doctrine!

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

ALL of Jesus' teachings are in play for Christians... it's being under deception to say otherwise according to Jesus.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

But you are not Jesus...

No, but we can quote Jesus' Words and point out that what He says is more important that the false teachings of John Calvin and the false teachings of the refomers who failed to simply go back to the plain reading of scripture.

Jesus continued His teaching ministry thru the Apostles writings found in the New Testament so those words are His as well.

 

[Mike Mclees]

14 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes, he repented and was received back.  And after Christ's resurrection He became born-again of the Spirit, to become a child of God - he was in Christ & Christ was in Peter.  So then Peter had God's eternal life.  

What is born cannot be unborn, and nowhere in nature does this happen.  It certainly doesn't happen with believers who are joined to the Lord's Spirit in them, as per 1 Cor 6:17.

Of course, His children still do dumb things that need to be repented of, but God doesn't kill His children because of that, He disciplines us.

We are talking about born again of the spirit not the flesh. You are talking like Nicodemus. Could you give an answer to my prior question about the great falling away? 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Mike Mclees

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

8 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

What is born cannot be unborn, and nowhere in nature does this happen.  It certainly doesn't happen with believers who are joined to the Lord's Spirit in them, as per 1 Cor 6:17.

That's taking carnal understanding of natural things and trying to make it apply to God's Word.

Romans 8 says if we walk after the flesh you shall die... we know this is not physical death because we've all done this after getting born again and we did not fall down physically dead so this is spiritual death as in being separated from God.

Further  reading in Roms 8 tells us to be carnally minded IS death

Gal 6 tells us if we sow tro the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption and that is because the wages of sin are still death which is separation from God.

To say one is not separated from God when they sin is to say one can live in sin and still be right with the Lord and go to Heaven... which is satan's favorite deception!

It's the same lie he got Adam and Eve with!

God said if they disobeyed Him (sin) they would die - but the devil claimed they would NOT die.

Those that claim it's true one can sin and NOT be separated from God, must knowledge that Jesus came to make what the devil said in the garden... true!

I know Jesus did not come to make it where committing sin does not separate us from God as satan claimed was true in the garden, but apparently some believe this lie of the devil! 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

Let me ask you something. The great falling away in 2nd Thes: 3-4 comes to me. This takes place before the man of sin is revealed. Tell me if these people who deny there faith, are they still saved? It says in Revelation that we need to be overcomers. It says "and they overcame him (satan)by the blood of the lamb, and the word of their testimony, and they loved not their life to the death" Are those who fall away still saved?

In the part of your post where you are asking me about those people who deny their faith.  "Are they still saved?" We are saved because we believed...but not every one who believes will continue to believe all their lives. Some for deferent reasons they will stop believing and embrace some other religion like Islam or Buddhist or even become atheist. 

If that happen out of their own free will and it was their own univocal decision then these people are not believers in Jesus Christ anymore. They do not have the faith of Jesus in their heart, and for that reason they cannot be under the blood of Jesus Christ anymore...they are not saved anymore...they were saved as long as they believed...but now they do not believe, they are not saved anymore. 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

14 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In the part of your post where you are asking me about those people who deny their faith.  "Are they still saved?" We are saved because we believed...but not every one who believes will continue to believe all their lives. Some for deferent reasons they will stop believing and embrace some other religion like Islam or Buddhist or even become atheist. 

If that happen out of their own free will and it was their own univocal decision then these people are not believers in Jesus Christ anymore. They do not have the faith of Jesus in their heart, and for that reason they cannot be under the blood of Jesus Christ anymore...they are not saved anymore...they were saved as long as they believed...but now they do not believe, they are not saved anymore. 

Exactly!

[FreeGrace]

On 8/13/2023 at 5:55 PM, Stan Murff said:

James 5:19,20

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I have other discussions about this going elsewhere and this utube preacher sent me this verse and says if it were not possible to lose salvation then this verse would not be in the bible at all.

{OK, I can't get this post to properly format for my response, so I'll just have to respond in red.  That U tube "preacher" simply either doesn't know what Jesus taught, or has clearly rejected it.  In John 5:24, Jesus said that those who believe (present tense) HAVE (as in POSSESS) eternal life (present tense).  So this teaches that the MOMENT one believes, they possess eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.  Couldn't be any more clear.  Once belief, ALWAYS saved.}

 

He’s saying this verse is speaking directly to the brethren and is saying it shows that it’s possible for some brethren to err from the truth as in turning away from God

{This is true and true believers can certainly err and turn away from God}

 

And he says it’s obvious that this verse is saying that erring from the truth makes one a sinner again who is in need of being saved again from death and from their sins.

{Of course, this U tube "preacher" is quite WRONG because no human, by fact of becoming a Christian, ceases to sin, and further sin "makes one a sinner again".  All humans ARE sinners, so none can be "made a sinner again".  That is totally foreign to Scripture.}

For those that believe you cannot lose salvation, what say you? 

That U tube false teacher should be avoided!!  He doesn't know His Bible.  I cited 2 verses that refute his erroneous teaching.  And there's many more, but I believe Jn 5:24 and 10:28 are the most direct and clear.

I wish this post could have been properly formatted but your post wouldn't let me.  And this is not the first time I've been unable to format properly.  There must be some kind of bug in the system.

Edited August 20, 2023 by FreeGrace