Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[DeighAnn]

"By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" Romans 1:5 KJV

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16 KJV

 

"For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil." Romans 16:19 KJV
 

[DeighAnn]

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" 2 Corinthians 10:5 KJV



 

"And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled." 2 Corinthians 10:6 KJV


 

"If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour." John 12:26 KJV


 

"Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." 1 Timothy 5:24 KJV
 

 

[Vine Abider]

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."  John 5:24

Don't know if this above verse of Jesus' speaking has been posted already* (it probably has as admittedly I haven't kept up well with all the back & forth as I've been traveling).  It's very clear, don't you think?  Everlasting life is permanent, but praise God our Father disciplines His children (and sometimes pretty severely)!

Please don't confuse His loving discipline with loss of salvation . . .

*BTW - I did go back and see that @FreeGrace has posted this verse already

[DeighAnn]

14 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."  John 5:24

Don't know if this above verse of Jesus' speaking has been posted already* (it probably has as admittedly I haven't kept up well with all the back & forth as I've been traveling).  It's very clear, don't you think?  Everlasting life is permanent, but praise God our Father disciplines His children (and sometimes pretty severely)!

Please don't confuse His loving discipline with loss of salvation . . .

*BTW - I did go back and see that @FreeGrace has posted this verse already

And here is how you know it doesn't say

IF Once upon a time you heard and believed...the blood of Christ will follow you wherever you go from that point on
 

Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 

AGAIN in

Luke 9

59And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

60Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

61And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

62And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Which is basically the same thing as


 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," Hebrews 10:26 KJV


2 Peter 2:20-22 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



2 Thessalonians 2:10 - And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.



BUT BOTH the 'JUST' and the unjust DEAD will rise when Christ returns.  So they have the Lords Day to get their names into the book of life by works
 

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

"By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" Romans 1:5 KJV

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16 KJV

 

"For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil." Romans 16:19 KJV
 

Thanks. So are you in Christ and is He in you? And if so, was it something you did or did someone else put you there? 

[Mike Mclees]

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

What isn't true is your mischaracterization of what you "think" I want.  In fact, God holds EVERY believer accountable for their lives.  Aren't you aware of 2 Cor 5:10?

 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Again, you have no idea what you are claiming.  It would be absurd to "want to erase" any Scripture.  And I am very confident that there are NO verses that "say different".  So please illuminate any Scripture that teaches different than eternal security.

That's exactly what I do.  And I keep trying to get those who believe salvation can be lost to prove it with clearly stated verses.  And NO ONE has been able to do it.

Maybe you know a verse or two that clearly SAYS that salvation can be lost.

So please educate me.

No thanks! We've been there and done that. See you at the Lords judgement seat.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Mike Mclees

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

And here is how you know it (John 5:24) doesn't say

IF Once upon a time you heard and believed...the blood of Christ will follow you wherever you go from that point on

Why are you trying to dismiss the verse with this?  The verse is very clear:  ONCE a person believes, they POSSESS eternal life.

Or, do you think it doesn't say that?  So your "if..." statement is irrelevant.

Why would it be relevant since Jesus SAID "whoever believes POSSESSES eternal life in Jn 5:24 and then in 10:28 SAID that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?

Jesus made clear that salvation is permanent.  And none of youse guys (and gals) have proven otherwise.

"IT IS WRITTEN".  Remember that?

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hebrews 6

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

So now you're trying to pit Scripture against Scripture?  But it won't work.

BECAUSE of what Jesus SAID in Jn 5:24 and 10:28, Heb 6 CANNOT be about loss of savlation, no matter how hard you might want it to be.

And that goes for ANY OTHER verse you think does.  None do because of what "IS WRITTEN".

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Luke 9

59And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

60Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

61And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

62And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Says nothing about losing salvation.  Only your assumption.  Do you think this verse trumps John 5:24 and 10:28?  Don't kid yourself.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," Hebrews 10:26 KJV

Go back to v.18, which is in context with v.26 - And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

This verse teaches that faith in Christ forgives all sin of the believer and so sacrifice is no longer necessary.

So, v.26 teaches that willfully sinning believers will face God's discipline.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

2 Peter 2:20-22 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

No matter how HARD you may try, you will NOT find ANY verse that contradicts what Jesus taught in John 5:24 and 10:28.  The phrase "the latter end" is a reference to the REST of the believer's life on earth.  Has NOTHING to do with eternity, no matter how HARD you want that to mean.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

2 Thessalonians 2:10 - And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Again, NO mention of loss of salvation, so why quote this?

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

BUT BOTH the 'JUST' and the unjust DEAD will rise when Christ returns.  So they have the Lords Day to get their names into the book of life by works

I know of your struggles with "death" and "resurrection" but for those who are curious, this uncited verse teaches that both the saved and unsaved will be resurrected.

btw, the names of all who will believe are already IN the book of life.  God is omniscient and already knows all who will.  It's no mystery.  He knows who will believe and He put their name in the book in eternity past.

That's how GOOD God is.

Your comment sounds like one has to work for getting their name in the book.  And that would be a very false doctrine.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

I said:

Maybe you know a verse or two that clearly SAYS that salvation can be lost.

So please educate me.

No thanks!

Sadly, that's what everyone who believes salvation can be lost do.  They bow out of the discussion.  They KNOW there are no verses that teach it.

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

We've been there and done that. See you at the Lords judgement seat.

I'll certainly be there.   

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks. So are you in Christ and is He in you? And if so, was it something you did or did someone else put you there? 

The words of God lead me to and through the words of God, just like they do EVERYONE who truly PUTS GOD FIRST AND FORMOST and seeks and then has the patience to WAIT for the answers to be given.  Some answers come immediately, others, not for long periods of time.  When I have been made to wait, I realize I couldn't have understood without what I learned in between. 

I took Gods advice when I read this 
 

9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE I WANTED TO GO

12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;

and this is the refreshing:

yet they would not hear.

(AND THAT IS WHO I DID NOT WANT TO BE)



ESPECIALLY when I read this...

13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.


In answer to your other question The words of God are, and the Holy Spirit is, which is what you are asking, correct?   Maybe that explains why a verse from here and a verse there can't be made into a TRUTH of GOD using GRAMMAR.  
The SPIRIT OF TRUTH always tells us how to correctly understand the grammar, the grammar NEVER overrides the spirit of Truth.  The foundation laid CAN'T BE CHANGED, only built upon.  OSAS changes that foundation and turns the gift of God into something cheap and easy, and it is anything but that. IMO anyhow.  

How about you? Was it something you did or did someone put you there?  I would ask the 'saved' question but I never do I just check out their fruit. 

[Vine Abider]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The words of God lead me to and through the words of God, just like they do EVERYONE who truly PUTS GOD FIRST AND FORMOST and seeks and then has the patience to WAIT for the answers to be given.  Some answers come immediately, others, not for long periods of time.  When I have been made to wait, I realize I couldn't have understood without what I learned in between. 

I took Gods advice when I read this 
 

9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE I WANTED TO GO

12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;

and this is the refreshing:

yet they would not hear.

(AND THAT IS WHO I DID NOT WANT TO BE)



ESPECIALLY when I read this...

13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.


In answer to your other question The words of God are, and the Holy Spirit is, which is what you are asking, correct?   Maybe that explains why a verse from here and a verse there can't be made into a TRUTH of GOD using GRAMMAR.  
The SPIRIT OF TRUTH always tells us how to correctly understand the grammar, the grammar NEVER overrides the spirit of Truth.  The foundation laid CAN'T BE CHANGED, only built upon.  OSAS changes that foundation and turns the gift of God into something cheap and easy, and it is anything but that. IMO anyhow.  

How about you? Was it something you did or did someone put you there?  I would ask the 'saved' question but I never do I just check out their fruit. 

The problem with thinking one can loose their salvation is that you can never get all the verses to line up with that thought.  There are way too many verses that state that the life we receive is eternal (e.g., "I give them eternal life and no one can pluck them out of My hand")

Now, granted, passages can be cited (which you and others have done) where it appears that a believer can put their own salvation in jeopardy. But a closer look at those passages usually reveals that the Holy Spirit is warning us or talking about discipline for the children of God - not loss of eternal salvation.

For instance - see my response to you on another thread about the warning in Hebrews 6 . . .