Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[FreeGrace]

47 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

Well,this response means one of only two possibilities.  Either

1. you don't understand John 5:24 and 10:28, or

2.  you don't believe what Jesus said in the verses.

It MEANS THAT TO YOU.  

OK, I'm not going to reply to the following posts of yours to me, because the crux of the whole issue lies in these 2 verses.  

Yes, it DOES "mean that" to me.  Why?  Because Jesus' words are SO CLEAR and simple and straightforward.

So, the only question tha remains is: what in the world do they mean to you, since you reject what they mean to me?

First, take John 5:24 and explain what Jesus was saying about WHEN one possesses eternal life.

Then, take John 10:28 and explain the result of receiving eternal life, if NOT the clear words that Jesus spoke.

That's the only issue I will discuss with you.  You are free to believe whatever you want verses to "mean", but if you can't rationally explain that they don't mean eternal security, then why do you believe that they don't?

[FreeGrace]

42 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

What happens to those who take the mark of the beast?

Well, I just couldn't resist replying to this question.

What happens is they will end up in the LOF.

Now, what happens to those who have been given eternal life?  Hint:  see John 10:28.

Can you answer me?

[DeighAnn]

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

If anyone QUITS HEARING the words of God and QUITS BELIEVING and TRUSTING  in them then

THEN HOW CAN THEY STILL POSSES WHAT IS ONLY POSSESSED WHEN THE CONDITIONS ARE MET?  

It is CONDITIONAL.  Both sides HAVE got to keep their end.  



What happens when one quits believing? or never has?

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

IT is given ON THE CONDITION that they hear and FOLLOW.  


It doesn't say it is given on the condition WHETHER OR NOT they hear and follow








 

[FreeGrace]

21 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

If anyone QUITS HEARING the words of God and QUITS BELIEVING and TRUSTING  in them then

THEN HOW CAN THEY STILL POSSES WHAT IS ONLY POSSESSED WHEN THE CONDITIONS ARE MET?  

It is CONDITIONAL.  Both sides HAVE got to keep their end.  

What happens when one quits believing? or never has?

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

IT is given ON THE CONDITION that they hear and FOLLOW.  

It doesn't say it is given on the condition WHETHER OR NOT they hear and follow

So then, are you just going to ignore my request that you explain what exactly Jesus meant in John 5:24 and 10:28?  That's clearly NOT how to convince anyone.

Ignoring the VERY CLEAR verses on eternal life and focusing on verses that can EASILY be shown to be about eternal rewards or God's discipline isn't how to study Scripture.

[Mike Mclees]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:53 PM, Vine Abider said:

Bothers & Sisters in Christ - As we’ve been conversing a bit about the “once saved – always saved” (OSAS) teaching in various recent threads (and actually it’s a significant ongoing discussion on the Worthy forum), I’ve been thinking and considering this matter.  Various people have brought up good points, both pros and cons to OSAS. This has me thinking about how salvation looks from God’s side, in light of the matter of life.  (FYI: I mentioned this in a few of the OSAS threads, but I wanted to more fully elaborate, with verses, in this new thread. And sorry for the longer post, but it seems necessary and hopefully is an easy read and a blessing.)

God is all about life! He is the sole Creator of life.  He made the earth to team with an abundance of life.  And Jesus said in John 10:10, “I am come that they might have life and have it to the full” and in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth and the life” and He also said, and “I am the resurrection and the life.”  His purpose was to defeat death and bring life back to man. So let’s look at the matter of our salvation from this  perspective – the perspective of life.   (presented in three sections + summary/concluding thought)

A) We should all agree on the finality and efficacy of that what Christ did on the cross.  Right before He gave up His life He loudly proclaimed, “It is finished!”  Those words were not spoken lightly and are very far reaching indeed!  So what was finished and what happened as a result of Christ’s death and resurrection? 

Here are a couple verses regarding what happened at that wonderful event (i.e., beyond paying the ultimate penalty for our sin):

“The Last Adam (Christ) was made a life-giving Spirit.”  1 Cor 15:45b

“Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone.  But if it dies, it brings forth much fruit.” John 12:24  (Jesus speaking of His crucifixion and what would be produced)

B) Jesus spoke several times about the importance of humans being “born-again.”  When something is born a new life occurs.  He told us, “Unless one is born-again, they cannot see the kingdom of God.”  (John 3:3) Therefore, as Christians we know that unless someone receives Christ into them, they cannot be born-again. Therefore, they cannot receive God's eternal life and see the kingdom.

Here are some verses related to the matter of being born-again and what that means:

“Born-again, not of corruptible seed . . .” 1 Peter 1:23

“Whoever is in Christ is a new creation.  Old things have passed away – behold the new has come!” 2 Cor 5:17

“I give them eternal life, they shall never perish and no one snatches them out of My hand.” John 10:28

“That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” John 3:6

“I will put My Spirit within you.”  Ezekiel 36:27

“He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.” 1 Cor 5:17

“I am in my Father, and you are in Me and I am in you.” John 14:20

"Whoever is born of God . . . His seed (‘sperma’ in Greek) remains in Him” 1 John 3:9

 “Conformed to the image of the Son of God . . . the Firstborn” Rom 8:29

“Christ in you, the hope of glory.”  Col 1:27

C)  Another significant thing Jesus did was to make the Father’s name known to His disciples. In the Old Testament the name of Father was used for God very rarely.  In the New Testament the name of Father is used abundantly, and Jesus was the initiator of speaking of God as Father, and this is in relationship to both Himself and His disciples.

Here are just a few verses related to God being our Father and His relationship with us:

“[Father] I have made Your name known to them.” John 17:6

“I am ascending to be with My Father and your Father.” John 20:17

“Our Father, which is in heaven . . .”  Matt 6:9

“Bringing many sons to glory.”  Heb 2:10

“Now we are children of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be . . . we shall be like Him.” 1 John 3:2

“It is of God that you are in Christ Jesus.” (not our doing) 1 Cor 1:30

Summary of A, B & C: Putting the verses in these three sections together, we get a picture of a loving Father who desires to have many children. Christ said He came that we might have life, and in order to do this, Christ first had to pay the ultimate price for our sin.  And then, in resurrection He became a life-giving Spirit that could be received into those who accepted Him.  As per 1^st Corinthians 6:17, His Spirit became joined to our spirit and we were born-again of incorruptible seed (sperma).  Now we have His very life! The old was done away with (old self & life was crucified in Christ) and now we are a new creation in Him - “Behold I make all things new!”  Just like in the rest of God's nature, what is born of God the Father, cannot be unborn. 

My concluding thought is that the title of father is given to someone who has offspring, or in other words, gives life and existence to another.  As humans, we father children who possess our biological life and many of our attributes – they are born and become our children.  We then love and care for them so that they may grow in life effectively.  At some point our children may become very rebellious and even seek to disown us as being their father or disavow they even possess our life as children.  However, we know it’s probably a phase they are going through, and we continue to look out for them and care for them.  This care may mean they need some discipline for their good, so they may get back on track toward growing and becoming mature, productive and loving adults themselves.  No matter how rebellious they become, they are always still our children with our life in them, and we would never think of killing them if they misbehave, but rather correct them to grow properly.  If this is the case with us, imperfect/fallen humans as we are – how much more is our infinite, loving heavenly Father – the giver of life!?

“I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

“Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!”

Hebrews 13:5 & 2 Corinthians 9:15

This is to long winded. Could you be more concise? However, God has given us chioce. He does not force anyone. God said to Israel " in my hands is life and death, therefore CHOOSE LIFE". 

Jesus is as a lifeboat. You need to grab His hand to get in. 

[DeighAnn]

5 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

So then, are you just going to ignore my request that you explain what exactly Jesus meant in John 5:24 and 10:28?  That's clearly NOT how to convince anyone.

Ignoring the VERY CLEAR verses on eternal life and focusing on verses that can EASILY be shown to be about eternal rewards or God's discipline isn't how to study Scripture.

I can't say it any better than He did and it's quite clear.  

Are you hearing believing/trusting?  then you have

Are you not hearing believing and trusting?  then you have not

It isn't confusing

 

[NConly]

17 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

So then, are you just going to ignore my request that you explain what exactly Jesus meant in John 5:24 and 10:28?  That's clearly NOT how to convince anyone.

Ignoring the VERY CLEAR verses on eternal life and focusing on verses that can EASILY be shown to be about eternal rewards or God's discipline isn't how to study Scripture.

John 5

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If one continues in sin after being born again they may or may not go through this next verse

1 Peter 5

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

John 10

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

He also said this

John 1

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Matt 7

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The will of the Father is not to continue in sin.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

This is to long winded. Could you be more concise? However, God has given us chioce. He does not force anyone. God said to Israel " in my hands is life and death, therefore CHOOSE LIFE". 

Jesus is as a lifeboat. You need to grab His hand to get in. 

For a more parallel example, it isn't our grabbing His hand to get saved, it is He pulling us to safety.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I can't say it any better than He did and it's quite clear.  

Are you hearing believing/trusting?  then you have

Are you not hearing believing and trusting?  then you have not

It isn't confusing

Of course it isn't confusing, so WHY do you think salvation can be lost??

In John 5:24 Jesus said those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28, He said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

This means that from the MOMENT of belief in Christ, that person "shall never perish".  Jesus SAID so.

Since you disagree, please tell me the result of being given eternal life per John 10:28.

And quote ANY verse that says that salvation can be lost.

I mean clearly stated verses that leave no doubt or alternate meanings.

I asked for your explanation of both john 5:24 and 10:28.  Are you able to do so?

Both verses are plainly stated, with no hidden meaning.  So what was Jesus teaching in those 2 verses?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, NConly said:

John 5

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If one continues in sin after being born again they may or may not go through this next verse

1 Peter 5

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

John 10

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

He also said this

John 1

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Matt 7

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The will of the Father is not to continue in sin.

All this is true, of course, and none of the verses say that salvation can be lost.