Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Of course it isn't confusing, so WHY do you think salvation can be lost??

In John 5:24 Jesus said those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28, He said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

This means that from the MOMENT of belief in Christ, that person "shall never perish".  Jesus SAID so.

Since you disagree, please tell me the result of being given eternal life per John 10:28.

And quote ANY verse that says that salvation can be lost.

I mean clearly stated verses that leave no doubt or alternate meanings.

I asked for your explanation of both john 5:24 and 10:28.  Are you able to do so?

Both verses are plainly stated, with no hidden meaning.  So what was Jesus teaching in those 2 verses?

What part of conditional is not getting through?  

Why don't you explain all the warnings if there are nothing that makes a difference?

I am done going back and forth with you over THE WORDS

You have said your peace and I have said mine.  WE DON'T AGREE.  THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU RIGHT

Being willing to go for 1000 pages back and forth doesn't make you right.

  WE DISAGREE, if you have nothing new to add let it go

 
 

[FreeGrace]

57 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

What part of conditional is not getting through?

There are NO verses that teach "conditonal salvation".  Or, to be more blunt, where is "IT WRITTEN" as you are so fond of saying?

Rather, what part of GUARANTEE is not getting through?  Didn't you read Eph 1:14, 2 Cor 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:5?  

57 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

  Why don't you explain all the warnings if there are nothing that makes a difference?

Because that would be a lie.  They do make a difference, but NONE of them involve loss of salvation.

Can you do ANYTHING to become UNborn from your parents?  The same is true of our spiritual birth.  Why don't address our spiritual DNA, which is the Holy Spirit IN us?  Jesus SAID (IT IS WRITTEN) that the promised Holy Spirit will NEVER leave us.

So, what part of NEVER isn't getting through.

57 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I am done going back and forth with you over THE WORDS

Of course you are done.  You don't have any kind of defense for what you believe.  NONE of what you have presented has been "WRITTEN" in the Word.  

57 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

You have said your peace and I have said mine.  WE DON'T AGREE.  THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU RIGHT

But there's more.  You take issue with what you call my "interpretation" of John 5;24 and 10:28, and I have asked for an explanation of what Jesus was actually teaching in those very clearly worded verses, and you keep avoiding doing that.

Why?

57 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Being willing to go for 1000 pages back and forth doesn't make you right.

You either.  What makes one right is SAYING what the Bible SAYS.  Which I have proved with verses that Jesus SAID.  

You don't think He meant what I believe He meant.  So all you should do is provide an explanation of what He really meant in those 2 verses.  

Why you haven't done that yet is kind of revealing.

57 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 WE DISAGREE, if you have nothing new to add let it go

But you have something to add.  You have accused my "interpretation" to be wrong, yet you seem unwilling, or maybe just unable, to provide a clear explanation of what Jesus WAS teaching.

Please do.  John 5:24 and 10:28.

[Truth Seeker 71]

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

 

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

 

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

[DeighAnn]

41 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

There are NO verses that teach "conditonal salvation".  Or, to be more blunt, where is "IT WRITTEN" as you are so fond of saying?

Rather, what part of GUARANTEE is not getting through?  Didn't you read Eph 1:14, 2 Cor 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:5?  

Because that would be a lie.  They do make a difference, but NONE of them involve loss of salvation.

Can you do ANYTHING to become UNborn from your parents?  The same is true of our spiritual birth.  Why don't address our spiritual DNA, which is the Holy Spirit IN us?  Jesus SAID (IT IS WRITTEN) that the promised Holy Spirit will NEVER leave us.

So, what part of NEVER isn't getting through.

Of course you are done.  You don't have any kind of defense for what you believe.  NONE of what you have presented has been "WRITTEN" in the Word.  

But there's more.  You take issue with what you call my "interpretation" of John 5;24 and 10:28, and I have asked for an explanation of what Jesus was actually teaching in those very clearly worded verses, and you keep avoiding doing that.

Why?

You either.  What makes one right is SAYING what the Bible SAYS.  Which I have proved with verses that Jesus SAID.  

You don't think He meant what I believe He meant.  So all you should do is provide an explanation of what He really meant in those 2 verses.  

Why you haven't done that yet is kind of revealing.

But you have something to add.  You have accused my "interpretation" to be wrong, yet you seem unwilling, or maybe just unable, to provide a clear explanation of what Jesus WAS teaching.

Please do.  John 5:24 and 10:28.

So, I guess JUDAS is in great shape. 

He followed and he believed...SO WHAT IF HE BETRAYED HIM 

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED  

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

There are NO verses that teach "conditonal salvation".  Or, to be more blunt, where is "IT WRITTEN" as you are so fond of saying?

It is written ALMOST ANYWHERE THE WORD 'IF' IS USED


IF is the WORD that proclaims a CONDITION.  



FROM SOMEWHERE ON THE NET....

If is a conditional particle that indicates a condition on which something depends12. It may be used to indicate suppositions or hypothetical conditions, often involving doubt or uncertainty1. If is one of the first words a child begins to associate with logical thinking2. It is used to say that a particular thing can or will happen only after something else happens or becomes true3.


 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Can you do ANYTHING to become UNborn from your parents?  The same is true of our spiritual birth.  Why don't address our spiritual DNA, which is the Holy Spirit IN us?  Jesus SAID (IT IS WRITTEN) that the promised Holy Spirit will NEVER leave us.

So, what part of NEVER isn't getting through.

Don't know where UNBORN comes from but AGAIN, not from me, I said they WILL PERISH, not be UNBORN.  So no need to bring UNBORN back into the discussion unless you are saying it because I am not saying it, I have never said it, I will never say it, I don't know who says it, so UNBORN is something to discuss with others who believe or don't in unborn like you do or don't, I don't know.  Hope that is clear enough


but PERISH is what takes place IF you don't believe and FOLLOW HIM. 

He is the way,

IF WE don't follow the way then

WIDE is the road... few are chosen...IF ANY MAN takes the mark...do not be deceived...there is no more sacrifice...

The TRUTH isn't found in A SINGLE VERSE but precept on precept.  All the verses in the world DON'T GET RID OF THE 'IFS' which are conditional by the very word

Hopefully this explains how the NEVER is or isn't working.  

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Of course you are done.  You don't have any kind of defense for what you believe.  NONE of what you have presented has been "WRITTEN" in the Word.

Don't know or understand how you missed them all but somehow you must have

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Why?

I gave it already, if you didn't receive it that is no longer between us. 

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Please do.  John 5:24 and 10:28.

already did, just not in the way you require, but then again who ever does if it disagrees with yours
 

23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


 

24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


As long as we are believing and following WE can count on what HE said as TRUTH

If we aren't, then we can't,

as testified to by the WORD


IF




 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

There are NO verses that teach "conditonal salvation".  Or, to be more blunt, where is "IT WRITTEN" as you are so fond of saying?

Rather, what part of GUARANTEE is not getting through?  Didn't you read Eph 1:14, 2 Cor 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:5?  

 You have accused my "interpretation" to be wrong, yet you seem unwilling, or maybe just unable, to provide a clear explanation of what Jesus WAS teaching.

Please do.  John 5:24 and 10:28.

So, I guess JUDAS is in great shape.

You are free to guess whatever you want, but who cares about Judas?

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

 He followed and he believed...SO WHAT IF HE BETRAYED HIM 

Please show me where "IT IS WRITTEN" that Judas ever believed.

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED  

Read John 5:24 and 10:28.  Jesus taught eternal security.  You should believe what He taught.

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, FreeGrace said:

Please show me where "IT IS WRITTEN" that Judas ever believed.

Understanding it won't be enough for SOME as that would mean something UNSPEAKABLE (they were found to be incorrect on something) 

3Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

4Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

5And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.



 

 

[FreeGrace]

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

There are NO verses that teach "conditonal salvation".  Or, to be more blunt, where is "IT WRITTEN" as you are so fond of saying?

It is written ALMOST ANYWHERE THE WORD 'IF' IS USED

Let's do this:  quote just one of your "IF" verses that you think teach that salvation can be lost.  I'll show you WHY that cannot be correct.  

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

IF is the WORD that proclaims a CONDITION.

Right.  The sole condition on receiving eternal life is to believe in Christ.  That is a potential.  So, IF one believes in Christ, he will be saved.

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Don't know where UNBORN comes from but AGAIN, not from me, I said they WILL PERISH, not be UNBORN.

So you think that a child of God, who has the Holy Spirit IN them can perish, even though they POSSESS eternal life???  Do you not really understand what "eternal life" means?  So I'll help out here.  It means CANNOT DIE.  

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

  So no need to bring UNBORN back into the discussion unless you are saying it because I am not saying it, I have never said it, I will never say it, I don't know who says it, so UNBORN is something to discuss with others who believe or don't in unborn like you do or don't, I don't know.

OK, you like to miss the point, I see.  The parent-child relationship cannot be broken.  Once born, your birth parents cannot ever NOT be your parents.  The same is true in the spiritual relationship between believer and God.  Which is eternal security.

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

but PERISH is what takes place IF you don't believe and FOLLOW HIM.

Show me just one verse about 'following Him' for salvation.  I don't believe your claim.  I want to see it "WRITTEN" in the Bible.  I will not takes your word for it.  I believe what the Bible says instead.

Not any verse says to believe and follow for salvation.  Have you never read the answer Paul gave the jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved??

Acts 16-

30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 

31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Why didn't Paul include "follow Him" if that is required for salvation?

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 He is the way,

IF WE don't follow the way then

This is confusion.  We must BELIEVE in Him to be saved.  Again, show me the verse about following Him for salvation.  Sure, there are verses that command BELIEVERS to follow Him.  That is our service.  That is not salvation.

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

The TRUTH isn't found in A SINGLE VERSE but precept on precept.  All the verses in the world DON'T GET RID OF THE 'IFS' which are conditional by the very word

I gave 2 verses and asked for an explanation for what Jesus WAS teaching if not eternal security.  Are you going to or not?

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I gave it already, if you didn't receive it that is no longer between us. 

This is just a cop-out response.  You know you can't defend your views.

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Check out the whole context.  It's about physical death, via capital punishment.

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

As long as we are believing and following WE can count on what HE said as

Please show me just one verse that says what you say.  

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

 

31 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

If we aren't, then we can't,

as testified to by the WORD

None of what you claim in this thread is testified to by the Word.

In fact, the Word refutes what you claim.

[FreeGrace]

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

Please show me where "IT IS WRITTEN" that Judas ever believed.

Understanding it won't be enough for SOME as that would mean something UNSPEAKABLE (they were found to be incorrect on something) 

OK, so you don't actually have any verse that says that Judas ever believed.

ps:  if he ever did believe, then Jesus was a LIAR when He taught John 5:24 and 10:28.  How can you not be aware of that obvious fact?

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

3Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

4Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

5And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Is this your verse?  He felt remorse for betraying esus.  That isn't believing in Him for salvation.  He felt bad.  That is an emotion.   NO ONE is saved by having emotions.

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

 

[DeighAnn]

8 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Read John 5:24 and 10:28.  Jesus taught eternal security.  You should believe what He taught.

HOW MANY times do I have to say it, IF YOU BELIEVE AND FOLLOW HIM....no problem

but if you turn from Him, deny Him, go serve another MASTER then that is what/who you believe and follow



4100. pisteuó ►
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
HELPS Word-studies
4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.


And that 'inbirthing' COMES FROM HEARING THE WORDS OF GOD. 

BUT if one turns away and starts believing in the ways of the world, then they have chosen and at some point, there is no more sacrifice JESUS CHRIST LORD AND SAVIOUR for them.  

No Christ, no gift of salvation equals DEATH of that soul