Rapture: to be or not to be?

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Don't really expect you to understand this but who knows.

Revelation 20

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I understand revelation 20 and understand who is being discussed there.

Doesn't change the fact that the beasts kingdom is consumed before the saints recieve it.Everyone who commits iniquity in Christs kingdom will be consumed or will go into captivity at his coming.Then the saints are given the kingdom.

[Shilohsfoal]

56 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Those who have received the MOTB and worshiped the beast die either before Armageddon or at/in Armageddon.  They are not consumed; for the Birds of the air eat the flesh of horses and men.  The blood reaches the height of a bridle or 3 to 5 feet.

Yet, those who are not partakers (do not die) in Armageddon and go into the Mill will be subjects of the Kingdom, they will not reign in the Kingdom.  Those who reign must have subjects to reign over. These same individuals must go up year after year during the Feast of Tabernacles to worship the Lord Almighty.  For Christ to rule "with a rod of iron", He must have individuals who need to be retrained in their thinking and habits.  These are those who came out from the 70th Week.

Only A/C and the False Prophet are cast into the LOF before the Mill.  All others go into the LOF following the GWTJ later after the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

So you believe the beasts kingdom is not consumed .

You believe Daniel 7 is false?

²⁵ And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

²⁶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

²⁷ And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

You also believe them which recieve the mark of the beast do not suffer fire and brimstone and you believe revelation 14:10-11 are also false?

 

 

¹⁰ The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

¹¹ And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

And just so you know,the lake of fire is fire and brimstone.Ive seen it.I know exactly what it is talking about.

Revelation 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.”

[Shilohsfoal]

58 minutes ago, The Light said:

Since you can't understand Noah, let's look at Lot. 

Lot left Sodom. The ones that stayed in Sodom were destroyed. Simple enough.

The occupants of Sodom were destroyed.Only Lot and his daughters remained on earth.

The fire came and  took the inhabitants of Sodom away.If you can provide proof that the fire didnt remove them from.the land of the living ,I would like to see it.

Or if you can provide scriture that shows the flood didn't take all the sinners away ,I'd like to read about it.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Montana Marv]

Which coming is there.  Christ's First Advent (Bodily). 

The road to Damascus; Saul's conversion (Spiritual body in a powerful light). 

1 Thes 4:17 - Those dead in Christ and those Alive in Christ are caught up to Christ in the clouds to meet Him in the Air.  No time frame; does not mention the 2nd Advent here.  BTW, the Wedding Supper happens after the marriage.  No wedding supper is mentioned after Christ sets his feet on the Mt of Olives.

Matt 25.  At that time the kingdom of Heaven will be like (not His kingdom on earth). ten virgins (5 wise and 5 unwise).  At the last hour (midnight), the end of a period of time, the Bridegroom {the title of King of Kings and Lord of Lords is missing here} (which title is given here) will come to retrieve his Bride to take her to his fathers house (not on earth).  The door was then shut to the wedding supper.  And the 5 foolish virgins remained here on earth ; "I don't know you", while the 5 wise virgins were up in heaven.

Following this is when the King of Kings and Lord of Lords (which title is given here) sets his feet on the Mt. of Olives (2nd Advent).  The title of Bridegroom is missing here.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[FreeGrace]

43 minutes ago, The Light said:

How convenient. I got one person adding to the Word of God and one person taking away from the Word of God. Why did you not quote all of the verse????????

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

What do you think Heb 9:28 refers to?  Jesus WILL APPEAR "the second time".  Not real difficult to understand.  

So, are you accusing me of adding to or taking away from Scripture?  I can't figure your comment out.

When Heb 9:28 was written, Jesus had already come the FIRST time.  So the author was clearly referring to the SECOND time Jesus would come.  

[FreeGrace]

41 minutes ago, The Light said:

What do you do with this coming of Jesus when He comes for the 144,000 first fruits and redeems them from the earth.

Who says that is a "coming" of the Lord?

41 minutes ago, The Light said:

Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Do we skip these things and pretend they don't exist?

There is nothing in this context that shows Jesus coming in the clouds.  It does have Him STANDING on Mt Sion.  Do you think Rev 14 is sequential in the book?  I don't.  It's a look-see ahead at the Second Advent when He is ON THE GROUND.

And the last part of the chapter is about God's wrath being poured out at the battle of Armageddon, which occurs at the end of the Tribulation.

There's no rapture here at all.  Or anywhere else.

[FreeGrace]

6 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Which coming is there.  Christ's First Advent (Bodily). 

The road to Damascus; Saul's conversion (Spiritual body in a powerful light). 

1 Thes 4:17 - Those dead in Christ and those Alive in Christ are caught up to Christ in the clouds to meet Him in the Air.  No time frame; does not mention the 2nd Advent here.  BTW, the Wedding Supper happens after the marriage.  No wedding supper is mentioned after Christ sets his feet on the Mt of Olives.

Matt 25.  At that time the kingdom of Heaven will be like (not His kingdom on earth). ten virgins (5 wise and 5 unwise).  At the last hour (midnight), the end of a period of time, the Bridegroom {the title of King of Kings and Lord of Lords is missing here} (which title is given here) will come to retrieve his Bride to take her to his fathers house (not on earth).  The door was then shut to the wedding supper.  And the 5 foolish virgins remained here on earth ; "I don't know you", while the 5 wise virgins were up in heaven.

Following this is when the King of Kings and Lord of Lords (which title is given here) sets his feet on the Mt. of Olives (2nd Advent).  The title of Bridegroom is missing here.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Because of Heb 9:28, every mention of the "coming" of Christ in the NT is a reference to the Second Advent.  Including every mention in 1 and 2 Thess.
No rapture.

[Montana Marv]

13 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The fire came and  took the inhabitants of Sodom away.If you can provide proof that the fire didnt remove them from.the land of the living ,I would like to see it.

Naw, the fire and brimstone killed the inhabitants where they stood, They did not go anywhere, they died on the spot.  Lot was removed out of harms way.

 

16 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Or if you can provide scriture that shows the flood didn't take all the sinners away ,I'd like to read about it.

They all died in the flood.  The flood consumed them all, their bodies rotted, no graves.  Yet Noah was removed from the carnage below.  When the water subsided, all who were alive were Noah and his family.  Noah and family were removed out of harms way.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

6 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Because of Heb 9:28, every mention of the "coming" of Christ in the NT is a reference to the Second Advent.  Including every mention in 1 and 2 Thess.
No rapture.

Harpozo is the Rapture.  We meet Christ in the clouds in the air above, Not here on earth.

Is it;  The 5 wise virgins make it into heaven; the 5 unwise virgins stay here on earth to buy more oil.  The Bridegroom comes for his Bride, followed by the wedding supper.  I do not see any wedding supper after his feet touch the Mt of Olives, do you.  The wedding supper occurs in heaven not on earth.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Shilohsfoal]

10 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Naw, the fire and brimstone killed the inhabitants where they stood, They did not go anywhere, they died on the spot.  Lot was removed out of harms way.

 

They all died in the flood.  The flood consumed them all, their bodies rotted, no graves.  Yet Noah was removed from the carnage below.  When the water subsided, all who were alive were Noah and his family.  Noah and family were removed out of harms way.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

10 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Naw, the fire and brimstone killed the inhabitants where they stood, They did not go anywhere, they died on the spot.  Lot was removed out of harms way.

 

They all died in the flood.  The flood consumed them all, their bodies rotted, no graves.  Yet Noah was removed from the carnage below.  When the water subsided, all who were alive were Noah and his family.  Noah and family were removed out of harms way.

In Christ

Montana Marv

You honestly believe Noah was eating ,drinking ,marrying and given in marriage untill he enterd the ark,and he knew nothing about what would happen untill the flood came and took him all away?

Is that what you believe this says?

 

 

For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Shilohsfoal