Offense

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, SpiritSong said:

Yes these certainly do cause offense, and as stumbling blocks, I can see how they lead to betrayal also. Which is why it must be so important as it be referred to more than once, I agree. How then are we to avoid or endure such offense?

Avoid by acknowledging that we have no dominion over another's faith.

We place stumbling blocks before others by thinking we know better, and

obstruct their path to oneness with Christ.

2 Co 1:24 Not that we have dominion over your faith, but are fellow workers

for your joy; for by faith you stand.

Bridling the tongue.

James 3:

2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is

a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

To endure, we lift up Christ before us.

Hebrews 12:

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;

who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,

despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself,

lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 

6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 

7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, 

and coming in the likeness of men. 

8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became 

obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

[BeyondET]

17 minutes ago, garee said:

 

The gospel offends 

Offence comes as a hard saying like one stopping up one ears in anger.Not hard to understand but hard to believe.The Jew thought  his Jewish flesh could profit for something it did not because flesh cannot .  

Proverbs 21:13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.

John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

I've never heard the saying stopping up the ears in anger.

Though proverbs 21:13 seems to imply ignoring the cries of the poor.

[Mr. M]

7 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

I've never heard the saying stopping up the ears in anger.

Though proverbs 21:13 seems to imply ignoring the cries of the poor.

This occurred when Steven completed his testimony

before the Jewish elders.

Acts 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice,

and stopped their ears,

and ran upon him with one accord.

.

[Mr. M]

19 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

I've never heard the saying stopping up the ears in anger.

Though proverbs 21:13 seems to imply ignoring the cries of the poor.

Similarly, the rejection of the prophets was accompanied with violence.

Zechariah 7:

8 And the word of the Lord came unto Zechariah, saying,

9 Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment,

and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:

10 And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor

the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

(Not the consistency with the expectations of a Christian lifestyle.)

11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder,

and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.

12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone,

lest they should hear the law, and the words which the Lord of hosts

hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came

a great wrath from the Lord of hosts.

Matthew 23:

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Mr. M

[BeyondET]

6 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

This occurred when Steven completed his testimony

before the Jewish elders.

Acts 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice,

and stopped their ears,

and ran upon him with one accord.

.

That is quite interesting I had no idea stopping the ears is used in multiple places in scripture.

Thank you for sharing that and enlightening me.

Could you share some thoughts about that particular occurrence. 

That seems to imply anger, whatcha think?

[Mr. M]

1 minute ago, BeyondET said:

That is quite interesting I had no idea stopping the ears is used in multiple places in scripture.

Thank you for sharing that and enlightening me.

Could you share some thoughts about that particular occurrence. 

That seems to imply anger, whatcha think?

Anger with a big dose of hatred to stone a man whose

"face was like that of an angel".

[Mr. M]

2 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

That is quite interesting I had no idea stopping the ears is used in multiple places in scripture.

I was familiar with the expression, and had to do a quick study to find the memorial that brought forth the remembrance. It is always a personal blessing to have the opportunity to minister in the Word, and we all should share a passion for that Truth. May you always ask, and receive in childlike faith. In the Name of Jesus.

[garee]

10 hours ago, BeyondET said:

I've never heard the saying stopping up the ears in anger.

Though proverbs 21:13 seems to imply ignoring the cries of the poor.

Yes. it is God who hears them. . . some rather not hear about it ..they are offended and stop up thier ears spouting  out hatred in their anger 

Psalm 34:16-18 King James Version The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth The righteous cry, and the Lord heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.

[SpiritSong]

11 hours ago, Michael37 said:

 

Hi @SpiritSong The above thread attracted some interesting posts back in 2020. In search there are actually a good number of threads on Worthy that have content relating to offending and being offended.

Growing up I only had to admit to being the son of a preacher to offend some people.

As for members of the body of Christ offending one another, that's when forgiveness should be exercised.

Our Lord wasn't too bothered about His ministry and message causing offense. It is to be expected from those in the world, and in the flesh.

Mat_11:6  And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me."
Mat_13:57  So they were offended at Him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house."
Mat_15:12  Then His disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?"
Mar_6:3  Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?" So they were offended at Him.

Agreed,but my question is about the offense that causes apostasy in the church, not how the gospel offends the world. Or are you saying that those who fall away are not true believers to begin with?

[SpiritSong]

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Of the top ten or so translations on biblehub.

The main words used is to fall away, to stumble etc.

Not saying offend is a wrong translation but it does require a broader understanding of the word offend to fully grasp how its used in the verse. In that particular verse in the OP, offend would mean to disagree, other verses it can be to the point of insulted, feelings hurt, anger etc.

So maybe the word offense gives the apostasy a fuller definition of what it actually is. Maybe it's that easy to fall away: just get offended? What do you think?