Believers' Accountability and the Judgement Seat of Christ

[Sower]

On 8/30/2023 at 4:43 PM, Dennis1209 said:

The way I picture giving my account: Did the Holy Spirit direct me to do a good work, and presented me with opportunities to share the Gospel, and I ignored it or said no? Dennis, provide an account of those and explain yourself. Dennis, when you did these public good works, you called fruit. Did you do them for MY honor, praise, and glory, or your own? Just as I thought, filthy rags, wood, hay, and stubble. Let us test and refine them with fire to see if they stand the test. I suffered a significant loss of crowns, potential rewards, and kingdom responsibilities.

Jn 15, 4   Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.

Abide:  to continue, stay, remain, to reside. To tabernacle.

 

I believe I give God Honor and glory by abiding in Christ. How? When I abide in the true vine, (keeping my heart and mind in constant communion as possible with my fellowship to God) I bear the fruit Christ produces, not what I produce, I only bear it, and this fruit is for others. I know this. But I can choose to abide or not, to walk in the spirit or not, to grieve or quench the spirit, or obey. Choice, for good or bad.

When I decide to help someone I do not consider my motives, I just do it, "Love thy neighbor as thyself," or build something nice for my wife or wash the dishes for her, "Husbands love your wife." I assume doing the right thing would be pleasing/honoring to God, though I also enjoy getting that praise/pat on the back from my wife or my neighbor also. Is this somehow a wrong motive?  Feeling good for having done a good thing? It gives me joy and my fellowship with God is strengthened for having done so.

Why else would I be motivated unless my flesh had a motive I deceived myself to believe. If in haste my motive was not pure, perhaps to be seen, only, I receive no reward. OK, fine. I received my reward at that moment, from others then, and not God afterwards, for doing a good/right thing. Either way it is a win win. Seems it can get over complicated then easily thinking on it. I honestly do not believe nor have even considered that God will bring up the lost rewards, at the bema seat for having done good without thinking to say this is for the glory of God. "If you love me, keep my commandments" Do you do that for the glory of God or to be obedient and show God you love him? Or simply do it on auto pilot because you have conformed to the image of God.

God knows my heart, no matter what I say to him. I know my heart is not to be trusted, as scripture says, deceitful, and who can know it. Motives???

Concerning sowing seed, if you have done much witnessing you can understand the blessings and the possible reproach/rebuke. I cannot understand having a wrong motive to share the gospel. I sure it wouldn't come from the devil to spread the good news. I've went on weekly church visitations for decades, and on my own as the opportunity arises. I assumed every believer would also considering they understand that is how they themselves heard the gospel, by some faithful believer having told them the good news when they were lost.

"So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor"

I suppose if I critiqued every thought of doing every good work, doing the right thing,  questioning who receives the glory, God or myself, or both, (when abiding, Jesus produces the fruit, I bear it) I would come up with a supposed list for eventually not doing anything, worried I may mess something up. Oh yeah , how about"To him to knoweth to do good and doeth it not"...what do you do when you do something good because you knew according to that verse you did it out of obedience and not necessarily out of genuine love? Does it really matter if I just do it? Is God not honored if I didn't do it out of genuine love, or is God honored because I did it out of obedience, to show my love to him?  Gets complicated, huh.

I do know works done for show or bad motives get burned up prior to judgement.
I assumed those acts, like sin, never would be remembered,  nor rewarded.

This is the first time I have heard about being judged on the good done right.

         "I can do all things through him who strengthens me"
 

 

 

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hi Free Grace, in Revelation chapter 2,3 we have Jesus coming to his churches, particularly these were not any churches but the ones who had a golden Lamb and he was walking amongs them. 

The point is that this happened while his people were still alive and kicking. 

He also promised to them that he will come to them at an unknown time to see how they follow up on His commandments and he told them how he will reward them. 

I don't see any questions that you accused TFC of creating.

This is what I said:

"FreeGrace said: 

Could you ask these "many questions" that you accuse TFC of creating?  I'm sure he or I would be happy to answer, among others.

The issue of reward is very clear in Scripture."

The letters to the 7 churches are ALL about reward, or the loss thereof.

Do you agree?

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

first of all you have to acknowledge that Paul is not your Jesus Christ, neither is Hebrews or James. 

Paul said I have been subject to correction many times that's how I grew in the Lord. And he goes on to tell how the Lord had to take him away from anyone for a number of years to be able to reveal to him the Gospel of Grace which is telling that Paul before that he was preaching another version of the Gospel...the samething happened to Peter and to all the other ones. Some of them followed and some of them continued in the all version and and some came up with other versions of the Gospel. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you are suggesting that Paul (who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ) is somehow NOT as correct as Jesus. Paul wrote all of the letters without fault or error the same as the words of Christ in red. In fact, even without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Paul actually received all his instructions in the Christian faith directly from Jesus himself as he says in Galatians. 

 

 

You then mentioned about all knees bowing before Christ, which I think is not really related to the thread, but I'll mention that I do not know the timing of such an event, but my guess is it will be on the last day of the millennium which is also the day before the eternal state begins. 

[Mike Mclees]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I don't see any questions that you accused TFC of creating.

This is what I said:

"FreeGrace said: 

Could you ask these "many questions" that you accuse TFC of creating?  I'm sure he or I would be happy to answer, among others.

The issue of reward is very clear in Scripture."

The letters to the 7 churches are ALL about reward, or the loss thereof.

Do you agree?

I disagree.  Letter to Laodicea REv 16 is not precis but is very strong language that would not suggest simple loss of reward. 

[FreeGrace]

8 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

I disagree.  Letter to Laodicea REv 16 is not precis but is very strong language that would not suggest simple loss of reward. 

When you say "not suggest..." you are giving your opinion.  I don't see any suggestion of loss of salvation.

And what do you do with the clear teaching of Jesus?

In John 5:24 Jesus said whoever believes possesses eternal life, which establishes the FACT that at the moment of belief, the believer has eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life (believers, Jn 5:24) SHALL NEVER PERISH.

These are the clearest of words that teach eternal security.

From the moment of faith in Christ for salvation, the believer is eternally secure.

Any disobedience or unfaithfulness from THAT POINT forward is a "family matter" and our Heavenly Father won't kill His children, any more than any decent human father would kill theirs.  Rather, He will discipline them with painful discipline, which is what Heb 12:11 SAYS.  And the Bible is full of examples of how painful that can be.

[Mike Mclees]

13 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

When you say "not suggest..." you are giving your opinion.  I don't see any suggestion of loss of salvation.

And what do you do with the clear teaching of Jesus?

In John 5:24 Jesus said whoever believes possesses eternal life, which establishes the FACT that at the moment of belief, the believer has eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said that recipients of eternal life (believers, Jn 5:24) SHALL NEVER PERISH.

These are the clearest of words that teach eternal security.

From the moment of faith in Christ for salvation, the believer is eternally secure.

Any disobedience or unfaithfulness from THAT POINT forward is a "family matter" and our Heavenly Father won't kill His children, any more than any decent human father would kill theirs.  Rather, He will discipline them with painful discipline, which is what Heb 12:11 SAYS.  And the Bible is full of examples of how painful that can be.

I read in the letters  five churches are being called to repent of there issues. Would you not say that? 

[FreeGrace]

1 minute ago, Mike Mclees said:

I read in the letters  five churches are being called to repent of there issues. Would you not say that? 

Of course they are.  Very clear words.  What does "repenting" mean to you?  How do you understand the word?

[Mike Mclees]

1 minute ago, FreeGrace said:

Of course they are.  Very clear words.  What does "repenting" mean to you?  How do you understand the word? 

and if they don not repent, What ?

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you are suggesting that Paul (who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ) is somehow NOT as correct as Jesus. Paul wrote all of the letters without fault or error the same as the words of Christ in red. In fact, even without the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Paul actually received all his instructions in the Christian faith directly from Jesus himself as he says in Galatians. 

Paul was corrected by Jesus, that what you are saying with your posting. How many times?   This is "off topic" but I made it a side issue because you are not referring to what Jesus had said about the same issues in Revelation, even in ch.2,3.

 

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

You then mentioned about all knees bowing before Christ, which I think is not really related to the thread, but I'll mention that I do not know the timing of such an event, but my guess is it will be on the last day of the millennium which is also the day before the eternal state begins. 

The Heavenly Father has appointed the Messiah to be the Judge of all people. 

But not before the Cross, but after the Cross when all authority is given to him.

All knees shall bow down to him and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord...

This has a number application and one of them is that everyone will appear before the Judgement seat of the Christ of God who is Jesus. This is the subject of this thread, one of the subjects.. Every one will appear at his appointed time. This appearance is before the judging Throne of Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords and it is in the Heavenly realm. 

This appearance is for the final destination of each and every one. This is regarding the eternity place of every one. The separation of the believers from those who have refused to believe. Who were put in the valley of decision and they made the conscious decision not to believe and at the time of their death they were found still with their refusal to believe. Because many who refused to believe at first believed at a later time before they die...those are counted amongs the believers. 

Repentance of any kind whether the Repentance of not having believing in Jesus Christ or any other kind is not available to anyone. 

Because this takes place after everyone has died and he is out of his body...or at the time when his next of kin are making arrangements for his funeral or his cremation if they were of the fortunate ones to get hold of his dead body or part of it. Everything is very suggestive to give the time of everyones appearance to the time after everyone dies.

Because everyone appears after he has died...and he appears to be Judge for the things he has done while he lived.  Every one who appears before the Lord and King of all (which is telling us that they are a lot of other Lords and Kings who had Judge the people whether believers or unbelievers and made their subjects to believe a lot of things and that at the time of their death that the deceased will appear before them to be judged for their eternity...

But when they appeared before Jesus Christ and their knee hits the floor without their volition they get that they appear before the one who have denied...and of course everyone who did not believe, believes at that time but his belief is not counted to salvation because they are out of the body...they are dead to the physical.  

Edited September 4, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Mike Mclees]

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

and if they don not repent, What ?

What does one have to do to be repentant?  Does he not have to turn away from his sin or sins and confess? I would like Freegrace  to answer

Edited September 4, 2023 by Mike Mclees