Believers' Accountability and the Judgement Seat of Christ

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, farouk said:

@jesusandliberty Ppl who continue to live (and eventually die) practising habitual sin show that they were never true believers in the first place, whatever they might have once professed. Philippians 1.6 says: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it unto the day of Jesus Christ".

What verse or verses plainly teach that true believers won't/can't practice habitual sin?  Second, Phil 1:6 refers to one's salvation.  It is God who regenerates/saves/gives new birth.  And that new life cannot die.  

[Vine Abider]

14 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

This verse speaks of God's discipline with His Children who deliberately sin.  It is incorrect to assume that every time "fire" is mentioned it refers to hell.  Fire refers to God's judgment on sin.  And sinning believers will be disciplined.  

To "consume" here refers to physical death, which is the ultimate discipline that God renders to rebellious children.

This is a key point! To me, perhaps the clearest example regarding fire as not always referring to "hell" is found in 1 Corinthians 3:15 - If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire

This passage is all about a believer's works being tested by fire. However, even though there is a testing fire, it clearly says the person themselves will be saved! This is the central topic of this thread - that all believers' works will be examined and tested by God at the Judgment Seat of Christ. This believers' examination occurs long before the Great White Throne judgement. (As 1 Peter 4:17 says, "Judgement begins at the household of God.") "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad." (2 Cor 5:10)

14 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

 How do you reconcile the idea of loss of salvation with what Jesus said in John 10:28 - "I given them (believers) eternal life (Jn 5:24) and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH".  

What Jesus said refutes any and all claims that salvation can be lost.

Bingo! Once born-again as His children, we cannot be unborn.  Hallelujah! However, we should always remember that as Hebrews 12:6 says, He will chasten and discipline His children whom He loves, in order to correct them and help them grow, just as any good father would do.

[farouk]

37 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

What verse or verses plainly teach that true believers won't/can't practice habitual sin?  Second, Phil 1:6 refers to one's salvation.  It is God who regenerates/saves/gives new birth.  And that new life cannot die.  

What I meant by 'habitual' was someone for whom the governing principle is sin rather than faith - whatever the outward profession. Galatians 6.1 does indeed speak of believers who may be 'overtaken in a fault' but who may be restored 'in a spirit of meekness'. The true believer never loses salvation.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

What I meant by 'habitual' was someone for whom the governing principle is sin rather than faith - whatever the outward profession. Galatians 6.1 does indeed speak of believers who may be 'overtaken in a fault' but who may be restored 'in a spirit of meekness'. The true believer never loses salvation.

Right.  Saved people never lose salvation!  But, believers can live as badly as any unbeliever, as the Bible shows.  That's why the Bible commands believers to not live for the flesh.

[Neighbor]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:05 PM, Vine Abider said:

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10:23 that as God’s children, “all things are lawful.” That is, Christians have complete freedom to choose what they want in their life. However, in this same sentence he finishes by saying, “but not all things are profitable.” The child of God has the freedom to choose whatever he or she wants (as do all human beings due to their God-given free will)

Hi, I do not see that the conclusion reached above is consistent with the opening declaration presented as though it is evidence.

God has NOT given me freedom to do as I will, not at all. He has turned me about from doing my own will, and whatever will satisfy or assage my own conscience, and instead has led me to His word the Bible, and has indwelled me with Himself the Holy Spirit.

Such indwelling absolutely limits my own conscience making me  a subject of Sovereign God. As was foreknown by God, and  predestined of me. For I have been given to Yeshua by His Father. Yeshua loses not a one given Him.

It is not of my freewill at all. I cherish that it is not of my freewill but instead is of His grace and His mercy  from everlasting to everlasting

[Neighbor]

As to the Bema judgement the lyric from a Fernando Ortega prayerful song always comes to my mind- Please remember me and not my shame. From his song Shame.

[Vine Abider]

32 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, I do not see that the conclusion reached above is consistent with the opening declaration presented as though it is evidence.

God has NOT given me freedom to do as I will, not at all. He has turned me about from doing my own will, and whatever will satisfy or assage my own conscience, and instead has led me to His word the Bible, and has indwelled me with Himself the Holy Spirit.

Such indwelling absolutely limits my own conscience making me  a subject of Sovereign God. As was foreknown by God, and  predestined of me. For I have been given to Yeshua by His Father. Yeshua loses not a one given Him.

It is not of my freewill at all. I cherish that it is not of my freewill but instead is of His grace and His mercy  from everlasting to everlasting

It seems there are many times two ways to look at spiritual things.  On one hand, "It's for freedom that Christ has made us free" and on the other it's "the love of Christ constrains us."  (Gal 5:1 & 2 Cor 5:14)

The point I was trying to make is that we, as born-again children of God, still have the freedom to sin. It is still a choice.  But least we keep on sinning, there are numerous warnings telling us that remaining in sin and unbelieving behaviors are tremendously damaging and are not eternally profitable. 

And ultimately, "We will all appear before the judgement seat of Christ to receive what is due for what was done in the body, whether good or evil." (2 Cor 5:10)

[Marathoner]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

This is a key point! To me, perhaps the clearest example regarding fire as not always referring to "hell" is found in 1 Corinthians 3:15 - If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire

This passage is all about a believer's works being tested by fire. However, even though there is a testing fire, it clearly says the person themselves will be saved! This is the central topic of this thread - that all believers' works will be examined and tested by God at the Judgment Seat of Christ. This believers' examination occurs long before the Great White Throne judgement. (As 1 Peter 4:17 says, "Judgement begins at the household of God.") "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad." (2 Cor 5:10)

Bingo! Once born-again as His children, we cannot be unborn.  Hallelujah! However, we should always remember that as Hebrews 12:6 says, He will chasten and discipline His children whom He loves, in order to correct them and help them grow, just as any good father would do.

Metallurgical analogies in scripture abound, leaving me with this impression: 

The fire of the Lord is a purifying fire. Thus, He refines us as silver is refined in the furnace. This is clearly the reference with regard to the judgment of Christ all of us will be subjected to: our works shall be subjected to the fire.

Many are reluctant to delve into spiritual matters with regard to our walk with the Lord, and I understand why. It's all too easy for others to misunderstand or misconstrue what is shared. We don't want that happen, so we don't go there. I get it.

I'll do it anyway. I have written about how I fell away, and how everything changed at the conclusion of the fiery trial (hmm, there's fire again). That was when I was broken and defeated, having come to the end of myself as it were, and this was the fruit of the Lord's discipline. He delivered this with love but He was very stern with me, brother. It was hard.

It was for life so I wouldn't find myself dismayed when I stand with you all before Him. I didn't understand what He expected of me so of course I wandered astray, left to my own devices. Everything was revealed to me on that day when I was going to die. That was the end of the fiery trial.

After the Spirit revealed the sum total of discipline I was subjected to, and how He never ceased from loving me as His own possession, I got it. Yes, I finally got it. This was how it was meant to be. I needed to be broken and defeated first. So...

Understanding the nature of His calling and what the Lord expected of me, I offered my life to Him. It was all that I had, and He deserved nothing less than the very best I could give. He gave Himself to me after all.

This pleased the Lord greatly. All of those years... the idiotic things I had done... the predicaments I had gotten myself into... and all of my grief and shame having fallen flat on my face over and over... the Lord bid me to cast it all before Him. This life I had offered to Him joined what I cast before the Lord.

It was burned with His fire, my friend. His fire consumed everything to ashes, but something remained in the ruin: the life I had offered to Him, and there were works which remained unscathed by the inferno.

That which was unharmed by the fire was purified like a garment of white, spotless and clean. This is the garment the Lord purified for me. As for the rest?

Ashes in the wind. He restored me, healed me, and promised that so long as I listen to His voice and cling to Him, I will do well. Jeremiah 7:23, brother. It's why I'm so fond of that passage. 

The same is true for us all. His discipline is for life, not death. 

[Marathoner]

The Lord's work in us while we persist in this world is perfectly illustrated by the metalsmith's crucible. Raw material and a measure of lead is placed into the crucible and subjected to fervent heat (very hot!).

Impurities--- dross --- are drawn out with the lead, floating on the surface. The Craftsman removes the dross during this process, purifying the desired material along the way. The end result?

Pure silver or gold. We're the material, and God is the Craftsman. The crucible is our time upon this earth, and the fervent heat are those trials and tribulations we go through. Why would the Lord dispose of His workmanship? If all that remains is a tiny speck of silver or gold by the time we stand before the judgment seat of Christ, then we are saved by the fire. 

[Dennis1209]

¹² So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. [emphasis added]

Unless I missed it, thus far, I have not seen an explanation of what we will be giving an account of in our lives. We will be standing before the elevated Bema Seat, not for condemnation, but for crowns and rewards, if any.

Our confessed sins have been forgiven, are they not?

¹² As far as the east is from the west, So far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Does our account have anything to do with our sins or standing before God? I think not, as we are justified to the Father through our Savior and mediator, Christ Jesus, one of His own. It is some judgment we face. I favor the following explanation:

The Judgment Seat of Christ is that place where Christians will have their works judged by the Lord. It has nothing to do with our sins, since Christ has paid for them and they can be held against us no more (Rom. 8:1). The word for "judgment seat" in the Greek is bema, meaning the place where the judges stood at the athletic games. If during the games they saw an athlete break the rules, they immediately disqualified him. At the end of the contests, the judges gave out the rewards (see 1 Cor. 9:24–27).^[1]

The way I picture giving my account: Did the Holy Spirit direct me to do a good work, and presented me with opportunities to share the Gospel, and I ignored it or said no? Dennis, provide an account of those and explain yourself. Dennis, when you did these public good works, you called fruit. Did you do them for MY honor, praise, and glory, or your own? Just as I thought, filthy rags, wood, hay, and stubble. Let us test and refine them with fire to see if they stand the test. I suffered a significant loss of crowns, potential rewards, and kingdom responsibilities.

Still, the Lord is omniscient, knowing the beginning from the end and me from the world's foundation. The Lord knows me better than I know myself. I will not be lying, covering up, or embellishing anything standing before Jesus the Judge, nothing but the whole truth of my actions or inaction.

If the above is scripturally sound and correct, the way I understand giving an account. Then a question comes to mind:

What is the reason, purpose, or benefit of giving my verbal testimony of my failures? Is disobeying the Holy Spirit to act (works) not sin? Is doing good works on our own, not called by the Holy Spirit to do so, filthy rags?

Throughout the Bible, the Lord is a legalist; there are laws in heaven and earth. For fairness, righteousness, and legalities, sins and rewards must be judged, with the appropriate penalties or prizes administered. I wonder if 2-3 witnesses will be involved.

 

 

 

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^[1] Wiersbe, Warren W. The Bible Exposition Commentary. Vol. 1. Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1996. Print.