Believers' Accountability and the Judgement Seat of Christ

[Your closest friendnt]

6 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

@Your closest friendnt if there is something specifically you object to in the article that was linked, may I suggest you take one point you disagree with and present that for discussion?

@Vine Abider

I would like first to know if you agree and endorse everything written in that article. Or there is something that you deferred with. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

@Vine Abider

Bellow is a copy of the first paragraph in the article. Noting that there is no scripture reference. Please provide scripture reference to support that statement with scripture. To test the comments in the face of scripture. 

(Copy from the article in question. 

title the judgment Seat of Christ? (The Bema) 

"Greek, like English, uses the word "judge" in two senses. One sense in condemnation, while the other sense is the giving out of rewards. The Bible says unbelievers will be judged in the first sense - condemnation, while believers will be judged in the other sense - rewards.") 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Vine Abider]

37 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@Vine Abider

I would like first to know if you agree and endorse everything written in that article. Or there is something that you deferred with. 

Good question! I did like the tone of the article and the various verses presented. I'm not sure I agree with every single thing said there (I rarely do), but overall thought the main message a good one.

[Vine Abider]

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@Vine Abider

Bellow is a copy of the first paragraph in the article. Noting that there is no scripture reference. Please provide scripture reference to support that statement with scripture. To test the comments in the face of scripture. 

(Copy from the article in question. 

title the judgment Seat of Christ? (The Bema) 

"Greek, like English, uses the word "judge" in two senses. One sense in condemnation, while the other sense is the giving out of rewards. The Bible says unbelievers will be judged in the first sense - condemnation, while believers will be judged in the other sense - rewards.") 

Most translations render "bema seat", which is only used twice (2 Cor 5:10, Rom 14:10) in the NT, as "judgment seat."  In ancient times "bema" was used of both judicial judgement and regarding the judging of physical competitions, like the Olympics.  However, as I've looked into the word "bema," it seems the usage Paul is referring to is more pertaining to the Olympic games.  There the bema seat is where officials sat to give out prizes and awards for the winners. 

However, it could also be that same official who might disqualify a contestant for not competing according to the rules.  As Paul referred to in 1 Corinthians 9:27, "I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified."

It's interesting how Paul uses this great analogy of an athlete in the games, as the body of flesh is something that gives us so much trouble and hinders us and believers!  And in context, being disqualified means to be disqualified from winning the prize.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Most translations render "bema seat", which is only used twice (2 Cor 5:10, Rom 14:10) in the NT, as "judgment seat."  In ancient times "bema" was used of both judicial judgement and regarding the judging of physical competitions, like the Olympics.  However, as I've looked into the word "bema," it seems the usage Paul is referring to is more pertaining to the Olympic games.  There the bema seat is where officials sat to give out prizes and awards for the winners. 

However, it could also be that same official who might disqualify a contestant for not competing according to the rules.  As Paul referred to in 1 Corinthians 9:27, "I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified."

It's interesting how Paul uses this great analogy of an athlete in the games, as the body of flesh is something that gives us so much trouble and hinders us and believers!  And in context, being disqualified means to be disqualified from winning the prize.

 

Hi @Vine Abider? 

I hope that I am not seen as a contententious person. I value your leadership and if I make you tired please let me know. 

[AdHoc]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:40 PM, JimmyB said:

The word "Jew" doesn't appear in the verses you posted..  So, according to you, all the disciples, all the apostles, all the  members of the first churches, and all the authors of the bible (excepting Luke) weren't Jews???

Romans 1:16 says "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile." 

Romans 2:9-11, "There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile."

Romans 2:29, "No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God."

Romans 3:1-2, "What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God."

Romans 3:22, "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,"

Repeated again in Romans 10:12, "For There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,"

Romans 15:8, "For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed"

Romans 15:27, "They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings."

Romans 16:11, "Greet Herodion, my fellow Jew. Greet those in the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord."

Romans 16:7 says "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was." 

Romans 16:21, "Timothy, my co-worker, sends his greetings to you, as do Lucius, Jason and Sosipater, my fellow Jews."

1 Corinthians 1:24, "but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

1 Corinthians 12:13, "For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."

Colossians 3:11, "Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all."

These are words that Paul wrote. Is that clear enough for you???

Indeed, one should read and believe their Bible!

Your attitude toward the Jews disagrees with what God's word clearly says!!!

No. Nearly all your quotes deal with a Jew BEFORE CONVERSION. Let the reader judge your style of debate. You did not deal with my proofs. I quoted just three scriptures. You have dismissed them without comment. They stand. But if you disagree with them, you'll have to take that up with the Holy Spirit. He inspired them.

[phoneman-777]

On 8/28/2023 at 1:05 PM, Vine Abider said:

There is a lot of ongoing & passionate debate on here about the teaching of “once saved always saved,” and that discussion goes back many years, in multiple threads. While my beliefs are that God saves people by renewing their spirit with His life, thereby making believers His children forever, my intention here is to look into the accountability side of what it means to be His children.  There is accountability and discipline for what the children of God do, after they have received His life into them. That means that because He loves His children, He wants them to grow and mature effectively in His life and thereby overcome personal sin. This requires His loving care and discipline.

Ultimately, this accountability culminates in the Judgement seat of Christ, where we will either receive rewards or loss.  This is something the children of God have to look forward to, where they can (hopefully) hear those wonderful words, “Well done good and faithful servant!  You have been faithful in a few things – enter into the joy of your Lord!” (Matt 25:23)

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10:23 that as God’s children, “all things are lawful.” That is, Christians have complete freedom to choose what they want in their life. However, in this same sentence he finishes by saying, “but not all things are profitable.” The child of God has the freedom to choose whatever he or she wants (as do all human beings due to their God-given free will), but Paul points out that the Christian’s choices may or may not be profitable or pleasing to the Lord. (The reality is we have been purchased with the precious blood of Christ and we are actually NOT our own, but He still allows us the choice.)

 Again, this has nothing to do with condemnation for sin, as that has been removed in Christ’s substitutionary sacrifice - His free gift of grace to us (also resulting in being reborn as His children). However, sin can very much still have a negative impact on the believer, even though God’s penalty for it has been removed. We cannot “play” with sin in our lives and think that there are no consequences whatsoever. God states that He actually forget our sins (Jer 31:34 & Heb. 8:12; also see Psalm 103:12), but sin in our lives can still damage us and our walk with the Lord! Sin can deceive us, dull our conscience and senses, break fellowship with God (from our side), damage human relations, cause physical issues, and many other negative things! So in this respect, these kinds of choices are certainly not profitable to born-again believer.

 The New Testament reveals there will be major, future judgments by God. Two of these are the Great White Throne, found in Revelation 20:11-15, and the Bema of Christ (often rendered “judgment seat”) found in 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Romans 14:10. The Bema is the first to occur of these two judgments, and Christians are the focus of examination there. Then, some time afterwards, there is the Great White Throne, which is the last judgment by God. The result of this final judgment is, “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire” (Rev. 20:15). Our focus now, as believers in Christ, should only be the Bema judgment. Romans 14:12-13 says, “So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God. Therefore, let us stop passing judgment on one another.” (“Bema” is a word the ancient Greeks used for a physically elevated position where awards were given to competing athletes at the Olympic Games. Paul is clearly likening the Christian life to the athletic discipline of these games and the resultant awards for competing well. See 1 Corinthians 9:24-27.)

Next up - more about the Bema Seat and its serious implications for all believers . . .

I guess question boils down to this:

Is God's punishment against the disobedient Christian up to but not including - or up to and including - the Second Death?

I'd encourage everyone to postpone their conclusion until the many formidable challenges on the discussion table against OSAS are considered, not just set to one side because the conclusion might be unwelcome

[FJK]

2 minutes ago, phoneman-777 said:

Is God's punishment against the disobedient Christian up to but not including - or up to and including - the Second Death?

I would think this type of thing, questioning, is where the idea of Purgatory comes from?

[Vine Abider]

30 minutes ago, phoneman-777 said:

I guess question boils down to this:

Is God's punishment against the disobedient Christian up to but not including - or up to and including - the Second Death?

I'd encourage everyone to postpone their conclusion until the many formidable challenges on the discussion table against OSAS are considered, not just set to one side because the conclusion might be unwelcome

I started this thread regarding the bema/judgment seat, somewhat because I heard several times that those who believe in eternal salvation, also believe there is no accountability.

[Vine Abider]

27 minutes ago, FJK said:

I would think this type of thing, questioning, is where the idea of Purgatory comes from?

I'm no expert on that subject, but purgatory seems like a misguided attempt to get all the verses up the one theological tree - that is one way to try and square verses that speak regarding eternal salvation with verses talking about a Christian's accountability.  (also suspect it was a way to keep RCC people in fear and inline with the church) 

 

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