Tribulation Nuance

[Triton57]

19 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The abomination of desolation is placed at the end of the 1290 days.

The daily sacrifice being abolished is the beginning of the 1290 days.

The persecution (tribulation) of the saints in Israel begins after the daily sacrifice is abolished. They will be imprisoned and killed for the next 3 1/2 years and this tribulation ends when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem.

That is the day of the Lord  when the Lord comes and  Jacob is delivered.(saved).

Mark 13:9-13 takes place after the daily sacrifice is abolished. It is during this time that everyone in Israel receives the mark of the Israeli government and the christians in Israel reject it and are persecuted for warning the Jews the kingdom of God is at hand.

After this tribulation, the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem in mark 13:14 .This is the 6th seal as it is the abomination of desolation that causes the heavens to depart from the earth as a scroll being rolled together. This is the time of great tribulation and the resurrection of Israel.

 

That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of separating the stopping of the daily sacrifice from the abomination of desolation before. However, while Daniel seems to speak of the stopping of the sacrifice and oblation over the wing/edge made desolate, both Matthew and Mark's accounts point to Daniel and only mention the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not/stand in the holy place.

 

Neither mention the daily sacrifice and oblation being stopped. If that's the case and they're both tied to what Daniel said, then wouldn't that mean the abomination of desolation is the beginning of the 1,290 days since that's when they're told to flee Jerusalem during unparalleled tribulation? When would you say the daily sacrifice and oblation being stopped would take place, presumably before the start of the 1,290 days started?

Quote

From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

United states gives Israel a host and daily sacrifice is abolished

Then 1290 days

United States armed forces place abomination in Jerusalem causing it to be desolate.

The abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem 3 days after the Muslim countries have overcome Israel and taken Jerusalem .The United States destroys all of the middle east and north Africa at this time.

Daniel 11:44

But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.

 

You lost me there, what do you mean by host? How does the US armed forces place abomination in Jerusalem?

[Triton57]

19 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

It already happened. There might be more later, but all of the so-called Darby stuff happened befor the end of the 1st century.

 

You hold the great tribulation happened in 70 AD then?

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Triton57 said:

 

That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of separating the stopping of the daily sacrifice from the abomination of desolation before. However, while Daniel seems to speak of the stopping of the sacrifice and oblation over the wing/edge made desolate, both Matthew and Mark's accounts point to Daniel and only mention the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not/stand in the holy place.

 

Neither mention the daily sacrifice and oblation being stopped. If that's the case and they're both tied to what Daniel said, then wouldn't that mean the abomination of desolation is the beginning of the 1,290 days since that's when they're told to flee Jerusalem during unparalleled tribulation? When would you say the daily sacrifice and oblation being stopped would take place, presumably before the start of the 1,290 days started?

 

You lost me there, what do you mean by host? How does the US armed forces place abomination in Jerusalem?

The US gives Israel.a host much like the US has done to many other countries throughout the world.The host is its armed forces.

 

Daniel 8:12

And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

 

The US armed forces places the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem AFTER the armed forces given to israel have been killed and Jerusalem has been conquered by the ten Muslim countries.The US armed forces will then place the abomination of desolation not only in Jerusalem but in many other cities throughout the middle east killing hundreds of millions of people.

The abomination is used here at the time of the end.

Daniel 11:44

But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.
 

The abomination of desolation is the cause of great tribulation.

This is the abomination that causes desolation.

For more than six decades, the United States has emphasized the need for a nuclear force that credibly deters adversaries, assures allies and partners, achieves U.S. objectives should deterrence fail and hedges against uncertain threats.

 

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Experience/Americas-Nuclear-Triad/#:~:text=For more than six decades,and hedges against uncertain threats.

 

At the time the US armed forces place the abomination of desolation in jerusalem,deterrence had failed,and the US and Israel's enemies had taken Jerusalem.Then the US nukes them all.

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Triton57 said:

 

That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of separating the stopping of the daily sacrifice from the abomination of desolation before. However, while Daniel seems to speak of the stopping of the sacrifice and oblation over the wing/edge made desolate, both Matthew and Mark's accounts point to Daniel and only mention the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not/stand in the holy place.

 

Neither mention the daily sacrifice and oblation being stopped. If that's the case and they're both tied to what Daniel said, then wouldn't that mean the abomination of desolation is the beginning of the 1,290 days since that's when they're told to flee Jerusalem during unparalleled tribulation? When would you say the daily sacrifice and oblation being stopped would take place, presumably before the start of the 1,290 days started?

 

You lost me there, what do you mean by host? How does the US armed forces place abomination in Jerusalem?

I don't believe many people understand the abomination that causes desolation is the Israeli governments policy.

 

The policy is called the Samson option.The policy calls for all Israel's enemies to be nuked but also Israel.As Samson not only brought the house down on his enemies but himself also.

 

The Samson Option (Hebrew: ברירת שמשון, b'rerat shimshon) is the name that some military analysts and authors have given to Israel's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

 

The abomination of desolation is used on the day of the Lord.3.5 days after Jerusalem has been taken by the Muslim countries.

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Justin Adams]

7 hours ago, Triton57 said:

 

You hold the great tribulation happened in 70 AD then?

Yes. Read and understand Matthew..and Luke. 

Do not look to the past to understand the future, though some might be a form of 'types'.

[Triton57]

12 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Yes. Read and understand Matthew..and Luke. 

Do not look to the past to understand the future, though some might be a form of 'types'.

 

Do you tie the 70th week of Daniel to have been completed 3 1/2 years after the destruction. And is the abomination of desolation the destruction of the temple?

 

I actually agree Luke 21 diverges in the narrative to talk about 70 AD, unlike both Matthew and Mark's accounts that seem distinctly different. It's my guess that either it was discussed more than once and written in different ways or Luke's account was perceived differently for the benefit of the believers in 70 AD as led by the Spirit. Either way I think God was warning both historical (to us) faithful and future faithful of what they will see that should trigger them to run for the mountains.

 

Luke 21:5-28

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

I found it interesting that while Luke's account appears to have the same sequence, there is a definite divergence back in history from the Matthew and Mark accounts. Note that Yeshua is talking about how the temple will be destroyed and not one stone left upon another, which we know was in 70 AD, and they ask when it will happen. He begins to warn of false christs, wars and commotions, but they have to happen. Nation against nation, etc. all the things in Matthew and Mark. So you could say, yes that whole time was like that, even in the future when Yeshua died there were earthquakes and darkness that could be seen as frightful signs from heaven.

 

Up to the blue section is pretty much the same, but then Luke says "But before all these." That would indicate before all the things He was just telling them about. What happens, what we know happened to them, being martyrs and speaking the truth when it hurt to do so, betrayed by family and friends. Then the key part, it's at this time, before all the things he was in line with Matthew and Mark on, that Jerusalem is encompassed by armies and it's desolation has come. Again, we know this was around 70 AD historically and I think that's exactly what Luke is talking about. I just think he said this event would happen before all the events that would come after 70 AD in agreement with Matthew and Mark's accounts. This is the desolation Yeshua prophesied at the triumphal entry some 40 years earlier.

 

Luke 19:41-44

And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things [which belong] unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 

Note also in the blue section that Yeshua doesn't say anything about an unparalleled time of trouble for Jacob that he will be saved out of like Matthew and Mark's accounts. He continues to describe the destruction of 70 AD and Israel was falling by the sword and led away captive into all nations, from which they would later (now) be gathered back from, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

That marks the end of the divergence that stated before the signs of the end come, as spoken of by Matthew and Mark's accounts, future of the destruction of 70 AD again. And then we see it sync right back up with Matthew and Mark again with the signs of the sixth seal. This time and fulness of the Gentiles seems to have something to do with the timing of Christ's return and the unblinding of Israel.

 

Romans 11:25-28

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

 

Taking into account these things that are appointed to Israel, it makes sense to me that this final week is yet future because in addition to the yet unfulfilled nature, natural Israel is still clearly blinded and rejecting Yeshua and will remain so until the fulness of the Gentiles is completed. Only then will their eyes be opened and only then will they see the Messiah who already came, repent and say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:37-39 This would also seem to tie their recognition of Him with the time of His return. As this has not yet happened in either case, I believe this is one reason it shows a future fulfillment and not a historical one.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Triton57

[Revelation Man]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:11 AM, Triton57 said:

I think there is a lot of nuance related to the "tribulation" that is equally missed by what I think is glossing over some key points made about the tribulation. In short, I think the confusion between the dragon's wrath on God's people and God's wrath on the dragon's people in addition to the Revelation 12:13-17 distinction of the time that starts the time of Jacob's trouble at the abomination of desolation and the focus of the unparalleled time of great tribulation.

 

Not really, either we understand it or don't, I know what you are referencing, the fact that tribulation can be seen as different things by different people, but John 16:33 wipes all of that nuance out, Jesus said he had overcome the world but that we the church would have "CONTINUAL TRIBULATION" in this world, so, if we hear it, the Church Age is tribulation. Remember I said 10 = Completion? Well that is why the Church of Smyrna would have tribulation 10 days, it means for the complete Church Age. NOW......When we get to Rev. 7:9-16 and see those Pre Trib Raptured saints in heaven  we can understand, yes they indeed came out of great tribulation, it does not say the Greatest Ever Troubles, it simply shows the Pre Trib Rapture brought forth a church who came out of great troubels where million of our brothers were killed throughout the Church Age.

I do nit even call the 70th week the Tribulation any more (even though John 16:33 proves all time is tribulation) just so people will not get confused. I say the 70th week, and the 3.5 years of Greatest Ever Troubles, known as Jacobs Troubles. So, we have a 70th week designed to get Israel to repent before God's Wrath falls at the midway point or 1260. They flee at the 1290 AoD which comes 30 days before the 1260. The Repent via the Two-witnesses who show up at the 1335 Blessing, which is 75 days before the 1260 and 45 days before the AoD, the AoD is not the Anti-Christ. When you guys get to heaven and understand I was 100 percent correct on this you are going to say man !! I could have taught the end times so much better if I had only listened to ole Rev Man. Alas, things we were taught blocks us from  being able to see the true facts. The 1290 "HAS TO BE the Anti-Christ" (as TAUGHT) even though it can not be, he can not come to power as the Beast until 30 days later at the 1260. SO GET THIS, we can all see that the Time, times and half (1260) means the Beast will rule 1260 days until his end comes via the 2nd Coming, but we can not get that the 1290 is 1290 days away from the 2nd coming. Its simple math. People can't see it because of LEARNED FACTS that are not facts, it blocks the mind when you tell them the 1290 AoD is not the Anti-Christ. 

On 8/29/2023 at 1:11 AM, Triton57 said:

: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

No time as Prophesied gets shortened, the 70th week is still 7 years and the 42 months of God's Wrath and the Anti-Christ reign of terror (which parallel) all remain te same as prophesied, the VEREY PROPHESY is what Jesus is referring unto, that after the Beasts 1260 day rule (Daniel's Time, times and half) Jesus will show up and kill the Beast without hands, by the presence of his coming. So, in Matt. 24:22 Jesus is explaining why the 
PROPHESIED PLAN is to kill the Beast and "SHORTEN his rule to only 42 months". God's plan remains he exact same one as in Dan. 12, God does not have to change His plans ever, Jesus is just explaining that of he did not show up at the PRE PLANNED TIME, after the Beasts 42 month rule of terror, to SHORTEN his reign, no flesh would be saved. That is all it means, I joke not , I hear people continue to say that the tribulation gets "SHORTENED" even after I explain it, go figure.

On 8/29/2023 at 1:11 AM, Triton57 said:

This 1,290 days starts at the AoD, but doesn't define an end point. I believe we get that from the context of the passage. This passage is all about Israel and starts with the AoD Daniel also prophesied about in Daniel 9:27, the 70th week of Daniel, that last period of seven years that God would complete His work with Israel to fulfill His promises before they dwell in the land during His reign.

 

The AoD is a mere warning sign that the Jews have 30 days to flee Judea before the Beast is released to conquer.

On 8/29/2023 at 1:11 AM, Triton57 said:

These also all start at the time of the AoD and state that dragon puppet will be given power for 3 1/2 years, or 42 months. We know this time ends when Christ comes at Armageddon and casts the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and binds the dragon for 1,000 years.

 

None of those start at the 1290 AoD, they start at the 1260 middle of the week.

On 8/29/2023 at 1:11 AM, Triton57 said:

So here we see that just after Michael casts the dragon from heaven to the earth the woman, Israel, is persecuted by the dragon, but she is whisked away to the wilderness where she's protected from the dragon for 3 1/2 years. So if this is true, how can the dragon be given power for 3 1/2 years, persecute Israel and Israel be protected from the dragon for 3 1/2 years?

 

On this if you will take the time to read, it will blow your mind. (SMILE)

The WOMAN is only Israel who repents and Flees Judea. The Saints are a germane way of the Prophets/Disciples talking about Israel in general, like some people call all sodas a coke. So, 2/3 of Israel are going to die, the 1/3 who repent and then Flee Judea will have a lot of their families killed by this tyrant, so they have tribulation, even though they are protected. Then there will be many, many Gentile Saints that are killed during the Anti-Christs reign. So, he rules for 42 months, and he will kill 2/3 of the Jews (Saints) and some who repented but did not flee will no doubt be killed. So, he chases the woman for 42 months, but not starting at the 1290, he is only cast down at the 1260, in the middle of the week.

WAIT FOR IT....I am going to prove 100 percent that the Remnant is only the Remnant Church, which points to a Pre Trib Rapture. This REMNANT can not be Jewish. SOON I WILL SHOW WHY !!

On 8/29/2023 at 1:11 AM, Triton57 said:

I believe the answer is the combination of the 1,290 days of Daniel 12:11, from the abomination of desolation to the end of the 70th week of Daniel. The dragon gets his power at the AoD and persecutes Israel for about 30 days before the unparalleled time of Jacob's trouble in Judea is cut short by the remnant of Israel being taken to the wilderness until the end of the 70th week appointed for her.

 

We see this in Revelation 12:17, where the dragon transitions from Israel to the remnant of her seed. These would be any of Israel not in Judea, and therefore not taken to the wilderness, and those with the testimony of Christ. This implies the tribulation, dragon's wrath on God's people, has two phases. First to Israel in Judea, then to the world globally.

Remember I stated "THE REMNANT" is not nor can be Jewish? 

Correct, the Dragon TURNS from going after the 1/3 who repent and Flee Judea (he gets no 30 day freebie) because he can not get at them and he is WROTH (Angry) so he TURNS and goes after the (WATCH NOW) Remnant who has the TESTIMONY of "Jesus" and Keeps the Commandments of God. Well., for starters the 2/3 can not be a Remnant, only the 1/3 could be the Remnant and she is safe in the Petra/Bozrah area. Also, since the 2/3 refused to repent and Zech. 13:8-9 says they will die, WE KNOW 100 percent they do not have the TESTIMONY Of Jesus. So, the Remnant can not be the 1/3 of the Jews who repented, they can not be harmed, nr can it be the 2/3 they do not have the testimony of Jesus Christ and will all perish. So, if the Remnant can not be any Jewish faction, what does that leave? Well, let me break it down, its what I do.

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman(he could not get at the 1/3), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,(Gal. 3 says THAT SEED is Jesus) which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So, the Church was the Bride of THE SEED, we have his testimony and thus keep God's Commandments, but we are in Heaven at this time via the Pre Trib Rapture. So, what does that make the Gentiles who repent after the Rapture? A Remnant Church on earth, the Dragon can not get as Israel, so he TURNS and goes after the Remnant of Israel's SEED (Jesus) and that Remnant is the Gentiles who repent during the 70th week. You know why nothing else fits? Why this can't be the 1/3 or 2/3 of the Jews? Because God's TRUTH always, eventually has a light shined on it. The Remnant in these verses CAN NOT BE Jewish, they can only be the Remnant Gentile Church. 

I explain this and people still go their merry way and repeat the same things they came into the debate saying. Its kind of odd tbh. It is what it is I guess.

God Bless

 

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, Triton57 said:

 

Do you tie the 70th week of Daniel to have been completed 3 1/2 years after the destruction. And is the abomination of desolation the destruction of the temple?

 

I actually agree Luke 21 diverges in the narrative to talk about 70 AD, unlike both Matthew and Mark's accounts that seem distinctly different. It's my guess that either it was discussed more than once and written in different ways or Luke's account was perceived differently for the benefit of the believers in 70 AD as led by the Spirit. Either way I think God was warning both historical (to us) faithful and future faithful of what they will see that should trigger them to run for the mountains.

 

Luke 21:5-28

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

I found it interesting that while Luke's account appears to have the same sequence, there is a definite divergence back in history from the Matthew and Mark accounts. Note that Yeshua is talking about how the temple will be destroyed and not one stone left upon another, which we know was in 70 AD, and they ask when it will happen. He begins to warn of false christs, wars and commotions, but they have to happen. Nation against nation, etc. all the things in Matthew and Mark. So you could say, yes that whole time was like that, even in the future when Yeshua died there were earthquakes and darkness that could be seen as frightful signs from heaven.

 

Up to the blue section is pretty much the same, but then Luke says "But before all these." That would indicate before all the things He was just telling them about. What happens, what we know happened to them, being martyrs and speaking the truth when it hurt to do so, betrayed by family and friends. Then the key part, it's at this time, before all the things he was in line with Matthew and Mark on, that Jerusalem is encompassed by armies and it's desolation has come. Again, we know this was around 70 AD historically and I think that's exactly what Luke is talking about. I just think he said this event would happen before all the events that would come after 70 AD in agreement with Matthew and Mark's accounts. This is the desolation Yeshua prophesied at the triumphal entry some 40 years earlier.

 

Luke 19:41-44

And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things [which belong] unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 

Note also in the blue section that Yeshua doesn't say anything about an unparalleled time of trouble for Jacob that he will be saved out of like Matthew and Mark's accounts. He continues to describe the destruction of 70 AD and Israel was falling by the sword and led away captive into all nations, from which they would later (now) be gathered back from, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

That marks the end of the divergence that stated before the signs of the end come, as spoken of by Matthew and Mark's accounts, future of the destruction of 70 AD again. And then we see it sync right back up with Matthew and Mark again with the signs of the sixth seal. This time and fulness of the Gentiles seems to have something to do with the timing of Christ's return and the unblinding of Israel.

 

Romans 11:25-28

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

 

Taking into account these things that are appointed to Israel, it makes sense to me that this final week is yet future because in addition to the yet unfulfilled nature, natural Israel is still clearly blinded and rejecting Yeshua and will remain so until the fulness of the Gentiles is completed. Only then will their eyes be opened and only then will they see the Messiah who already came, repent and say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:37-39 This would also seem to tie their recognition of Him with the time of His return. As this has not yet happened in either case, I believe this is one reason it shows a future fulfillment and not a historical one.

The faithful don't flee when they see the abomination of desolation.They are told to lift up their heads and look up.

You just quoted this verse.

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

 

The faithful do not flee,it is those who have not been faithful who flee on the day of the Lord.

 

Zech 14

⁵ And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

The saints are gathered to Christ at his coming while it is the wicked who flee to the mountains.Understanding what the abomination of desolation is ,they are fleeing to the mountains to hide in the caves that are there.This is John's description of the abomination that causes desolation which he saw and those who have fled to the mountains hiding in caves.

Revelation 6

 

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Triton57]

On 8/30/2023 at 3:35 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

The US gives Israel.a host much like the US has done to many other countries throughout the world.The host is its armed forces.

 

Daniel 8:12

And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

 

The US armed forces places the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem AFTER the armed forces given to israel have been killed and Jerusalem has been conquered by the ten Muslim countries.The US armed forces will then place the abomination of desolation not only in Jerusalem but in many other cities throughout the middle east killing hundreds of millions of people.

The abomination is used here at the time of the end.

Daniel 11:44

But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.
 

The abomination of desolation is the cause of great tribulation.

This is the abomination that causes desolation.

For more than six decades, the United States has emphasized the need for a nuclear force that credibly deters adversaries, assures allies and partners, achieves U.S. objectives should deterrence fail and hedges against uncertain threats.

 

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Experience/Americas-Nuclear-Triad/#:~:text=For more than six decades,and hedges against uncertain threats.

 

At the time the US armed forces place the abomination of desolation in jerusalem,deterrence had failed,and the US and Israel's enemies had taken Jerusalem.Then the US nukes them all.

 

 

I've speculated details before and found that I prefer to stick as much as possible to what I know will happen from scripture. Details like that on how exactly it will unfold are what I watch for. I know it's going to be centered around Israel, Jerusalem and the temple from scripture so for now that is my focus. You may be right, we'll have to see…watching!

[Triton57]

On 8/30/2023 at 4:03 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

I don't believe many people understand the abomination that causes desolation is the Israeli governments policy.

The policy is called the Samson option.The policy calls for all Israel's enemies to be nuked but also Israel.As Samson not only brought the house down on his enemies but himself also.

The Samson Option (Hebrew: ברירת שמשון, b'rerat shimshon) is the name that some military analysts and authors have given to Israel's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

The abomination of desolation is used on the day of the Lord.3.5 days after Jerusalem has been taken by the Muslim countries.

 

What scripture points to the Muslim nations taking Jerusalem? So you think the abomination of Israeli policy of nuking their enemies will cause the desolation of Israel? It seems hard to believe that the rest of prophecy could unfold in that kind of a situation, although I do see that possibility when it comes to Damascus.

 

Isaiah 17:1, 9

1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from [being] a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap. ...

9 In that day shall his strong cities be as a forsaken bough, and an uppermost branch, which they left because of the children of Israel: and there shall be desolation.