The Problem With Evolution- Part 1, Ape to Man Ridiculousness

[Buzzard3]

On 9/12/2023 at 11:56 AM, Sparks said:

Haven't you noticed that theistic evolutionists have to twist scripture into something it isn't to make way for man-made ideas like evolution

According to a version of theistic evolution, a race of human beings evolved and then God took two of them (Adam and Eve) and infused them with souls.  The story then goes that that race of souless humans became extinct ... but no TEist can provide a sensible explanation as to why and how they became extinct. 

Some TEists argue that the humans with souls (the offspring of Adam and Eve) bred with souless humans, whose offspring inherited souls (somehow), and eventually the souless humans died out.  If you can believe that appalling nonsense, you can believe anything.  What an embarrassment to Christianity. 

[FJK]

37 minutes ago, Buzzard3 said:

According to a version of theistic evolution, a race of human beings evolved and then God took two of them (Adam and Eve) and infused them with souls.

An obviously non Biblical view.

My question to Christians believing in evolution, which is not found in the Bible, is simply why do they not have the personal integrity to just say outright "I do not believe the Bible"?

Because you either believe the Bible or you don't.

Jesus believed and affirmed the Bible, is that not good enough for them that they somehow know better?

[Starise]

1 hour ago, Buzzard3 said:

According to a version of theistic evolution, a race of human beings evolved and then God took two of them (Adam and Eve) and infused them with souls.  The story then goes that that race of souless humans became extinct ... but no TEist can provide a sensible explanation as to why and how they became extinct. 

Some TEists argue that the humans with souls (the offspring of Adam and Eve) bred with souless humans, whose offspring inherited souls (somehow), and eventually the souless humans died out.  If you can believe that appalling nonsense, you can believe anything.  What an embarrassment to Christianity. 

This is a great small packet explanation for what some Christians seem to believe. They don't come out and say it most of the time. In any case, it isn't about what anyone believes about anything. It comes down to what the facts are and what the bible says, which I think you would agree.

There are several serious issues with this theory.

-It invalidates the idea that man was made in one day, by suggesting the basis of physical man had been evolving over time and only the spiritual part of man was new.Of course, there is no solid basis for this argument which reads far more into the text than is there.

- It takes our godlike imaging qualities and reduces them to the level of animals.

-It suggests God couldn't come up with an original design and resorted to the use of apes in making us. It also suggests God 'learned' from his first designs to make successive designs until He got something right. This view severely limits God, giving Him more humanlike qualities. That God shows creativity in His designs is magnificent and wonderful, and we see this in present variations of man. He has no need to rob one kind to produce another, especially given that we would be the highest beings on earth in the physical realm, and He intentionally made us with some of His attributes to a far lesser degree.

[Buzzard3]

2 hours ago, FJK said:

My question to Christians believing in evolution, which is not found in the Bible, is simply why do they not have the personal integrity to just say outright "I do not believe the Bible"?

Yes, well, it certainly makes you wonder.

I've encountered professing Christians online who seem fanatically obsessed with evolution ... quite bizarre.  It's as if they have two religions and are willing to compromise one to accommodate the other.  

Another aspect of theistic evolution that I find puzzling is this:  The Gospels describe Jesus raising at least three people from the dead, which, in effect, describe Jesus creating a living human being from inanimate matter (the deceased person) in an instant.  If one accepts that Jesus performed such miracles, why would one then doubt that God performed effectively the same miracle in Genesis 2:7, which describes God creating Adam from inanimate matter in an instant?   

In short, Jesus raising Lazarus (for example) from the dead is essentially the same miracle as God instantaneously creating Adam from "dust".

Knowing that, why would any Christian then believe God used billions of years of messy evolution to bring humans into existence?   That strikes me as highly illogical.   Is a scientific theory more important to a theistic evolutionist than the Word of God?

Edited September 14, 2023 by Buzzard3

[Buzzard3]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

There are several serious issues with this theory ...

 It takes our godlike imaging qualities and reduces them to the level of animals.

Speaking of the level of animals, the TE idea that humans with souls (the offspring of Adam and Eve) bred with humans without souls is not only bizarre, it's downright repugnant, for it implies that humans made in the image of God had sex with animals - ie, humans without souls.  

 

Furthermore, a human with a soul would think and behave very differently to a human without a soul - the two would be totally incompatible as mates.

... 

It suggests God couldn't come up with an original design and resorted to the use of apes in making us. It also suggests God 'learned' from his first designs to make successive designs until He got something right. This view severely limits God, giving Him more humanlike qualities.

Believe it or not, many theistic evolutionists believe God left the creation of life on earth up to a mechanical process, as described by the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution.  This belief implies that God didn't plan the existence of human beings ... they were simply an unforeseen result of a mindless evolutionary process.  

Such a point of view is so absurd that it beggars belief that any sane, intelligent Christian could believe it.  Furthermore, I think one could argue that it amounts to the worship of science.

[Starise]

3 hours ago, Buzzard3 said:

Speaking of the level of animals, the TE idea that humans with souls (the offspring of Adam and Eve) bred with humans without souls is not only bizarre, it's downright repugnant, for it implies that humans made in the image of God had sex with animals - ie, humans without souls.  

 

Furthermore, a human with a soul would think and behave very differently to a human without a soul - the two would be totally incompatible as mates.

 

 

Believe it or not, many theistic evolutionists believe God left the creation of life on earth up to a mechanical process, as described by the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution.  This belief implies that God didn't plan the existence of human beings ... they were simply an unforeseen result of a mindless evolutionary process.  

Such a point of view is so absurd that it beggars belief that any sane, intelligent Christian could believe it.  Furthermore, I think one could argue that it amounts to the worship of science.

I agree with everything you say. King Nebuchadnezzar was my first thought when you were referring to souless humans. He thought he was a four legged animal for a length of time and behaved like it.

I believe some, when confronted with the stark realities of what "science" is attempting to put forth .vs the creation account, either dump the biblical teachings making their new god science, or they try somehow to resolve the two which has to stretch itself beyond any reasonable logic, lending itself to insane theories.

[Buzzard3]

25 minutes ago, Starise said:

 King Nebuchadnezzar was my first thought when you were referring to souless humans. He thought he was a four legged animal for a length of time and behaved like it.

Sounds a bit like my next-door neighbour ...

25 minutes ago, Starise said:

I believe some, when confronted with the stark realities of what "science" is attempting to put forth .vs the creation account, either dump the biblical teachings making their new god science, or they try somehow to resolve the two which has to stretch itself beyond any reasonable logic, lending itself to insane theories.

"insane theories" is an appropriate description, I think.  When I first came across theistic evolutionists talking about souless humans, I thought, "This is Christianity?  It's totally bonkers!"

If you ask me, the theory of evolution is an attempt to explain our Creator away with so-called science.   It's both sad and disturbing to see Christians - some of them, esteemed scientists - falling victim to this deception. 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Buzzard3

[Buzzard3]

36 minutes ago, Starise said:

I believe some, when confronted with the stark realities of what "science" is attempting to put forth .vs the creation account, either dump the biblical teachings making their new god science

 I've spent quite a lot of time debating atheists on various atheists sites.  A great number of them were once Christians and a lot of them said it was evolution that turned them into unbelievers.  As you mentioned, science became their new god.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Buzzard3

[Starise]

2 minutes ago, Buzzard3 said:

Sounds a bit like my next-door neighbour ...

LOL!

2 minutes ago, Buzzard3 said:

"insane theories" is an appropriate description, I think.  When I first came across theistic evolutionists talking about souless humans, I thought, "This is not Christianity - it's totally bonkers."

If you ask me, the theory of evolution is an attempt to explain our Creator away with so-called science.   It's both sad and disturbing to see Christians - some of them, esteemed scientists - falling victim to this deception. 

Yes I see some belivers maybe saying they believe in it without any further investigation, and at one time I was one of those who wanted so much just to make everything work like a well oiled machine and have it all sit well with my christianity, and on the surface it seems to be something that might work until we begin to dig deeper into it. I say "it" in referring to the ideas we came from apes and are still referred to as apes by many athesists, and not necessarily any of those other things we can opbserve and document such as slight adaptation within a kind.

The nectar in that evolution flower is that we came from animals over time and are still nothing but advanced animals, and no different from them.

The effects of these ideas are as follows-

Evolution- No purpose. No meaning. No creator.

Biblical view- Purpose, meaning, and a loving creator.

Why did our society decide to trade off on a bag of magic beans? Or was it slowly forced on us?

[Starise]

35 minutes ago, Buzzard3 said:

I've spent quite a lot of time debating atheists on various atheists sites.  A great number of them were once Christians and a lot of them said it was evolution that turned them into unbelievers.  As you mentioned, science became their new god.

As I see it-To debate on those sites you need thick skin,a loving peacful approach and a love for those people. 

It is far more logical to say, yes we have ample evidence for God in pretty much everything we observe, or maybe to put it another way, we have intelligent design based on observations. One doesn't really need  deep investigation to figure that out. The more we investigate the more apparent it becomes.

To say we don't understand God is a given, and therefore we don't pin an origin on Him. The maker of time needs no beginning, which cancels the demand made on us to explain where He came from. The question itself seems intellectually disingenuous when discussing a being who MADE time.

On their side of things, we have unobservable theories. Disorder coming to order. Not just order, but order on a handshaking scale so complicated we are still trying to figure a lot of it out.Animals coming from slime over billions of years. The real onus is heavily on them, but they would have us think it's on us.

I guess different people have different reasons for why they leave Christianity and I think it would be dismissive of me to guess what I think all of those reasons are without knowing any of them. I see many of them as those seeds which fell on ground with shallow soil and never grew deep roots, so when something else came along they wilted. The only plants that grow are the ones plugged into the true vine.

The atheist movement has systematically attempted to tear down anything we believe in based on truths we know to be, and it's all very convincing on the surface, especially if you want to believe it and didn't like something about an experience you had within 'christian' circles, so a lot of people go into this with a bias to begin with.

The idea that truly logical people will fall into the atheist camp is yet another ploy often used. They have a lot of attractive rabbits to pull out of the hat.