The 7th Trump is the Last Trump

[WilliamL]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:46 AM, Montana Marv said:

The 7th Trumpet is but the last in a series of 7 Trumpet blasts.  The 6th Trumpet is a Woe, and within the 7th Trumpet is the 3rd Woe.  All who remain on earth just before the 5th Trumpet are all demon and idol worshipers who do not repent. (Rev 9:20)

The Last Trumpet Call, is but a Trumpet Call. 

Precisely.

Matt. 24:31 And He (Christ) will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet...

1 Cor. 15:52 ...at the last/eschatos trumpet. For a trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised...

1 Thes. 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend with a shout of command with a voice of an archangel, and with a trumpet of God...

This is God's trumpet of last/eschatos/final judgement, not an angel's trumpet of announcement of the earthly reign of Christ:

Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ...

 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Where does this passage fit in with your sequencing of events?

Then the Lord will appear over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And march in the storm winds of the south.
The Lord of armies will protect them.
And they will devour and trample on the slingstones;
And they will drink and be boisterous as with wine;
And they will be filled like a sacrificial basin,
Drenched like the corners of the altar.
And the Lord their God will save them on that day
As the flock of His people;
For they are like the precious stones of a crown,
Sparkling on His land.   Zechariah 9:14-16

 

As I often do, I associate passages related to events as descriptions of the same event; non-contradictory descriptions of that event that are added details of the time or event. 

Just like Jesus describes the A of D in the Gospels, Daniel in 9,11,12 describes the A of D, and Joel has a few things to say about it; all describe the event with added details and when all is taken into account a clearer picture emerges. 

Jesus says the A of D 'stands'. Daniel says it greatly appalls and abolishes ritual and desecrates, Joel speaks to the conditions surrounding the meat and drink offering cut off from the House of God. Not 3 distinct times/events, one time/event described by varied vantages.

So the above passage from Zechariah would fit in with 2nd advent as descriptions of that time merging with other passages and descriptions of the 2nd advent.

However, you probably are looking for an explanation of "And the Lord God will blow the trumpet," and how that fits in with the idea the loud, God's and last are all the same trump. Well, I don't see the Lord physically blowing any trump. He would give the command to sound the trump.

In ancient times in Israel, lookouts sounded the trump with the enemy on the horizon, under command of the captain of the guard, and by extension the king. Same with a war trumpet, the king wasn't sounding the trumps, he gave the command for the trumps to sound.

There is this precedent from Numbers 10:

"²Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. ³And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. ⁴And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee. ⁵When ye blow an alarm, then the camps that lie on the east parts shall go forward. ⁶When ye blow an alarm the second time, then the camps that lie on the south side shall take their journey: they shall blow an alarm for their journeys. ⁷But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall not sound an alarm. ⁸And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations. ⁹And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the Lord your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies. ¹⁰Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God.... "

God is using personal pronouns as if Moses was going to sound the trumps, but in reality it was the priests. I think it's the same thing in Zech 9. The Lord gives the command, the trumpet bearers, whomever they are, sound the trump.

From 1 Thess 4, "16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel," it appears this command comes from the voice of the archangel, not the Lord Himself. 

In the end I'm quite convinced duties are delegated in the administration of the kingdom in all aspects, including the King's arrival, the gathering and the call to war. So, same trump as God's, loud and last and not physically blown by the Lord God Himself.

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Diaste

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Quote

The 7th Trump is the Last Trump

It's looking like the first Trump will be the last Trump!

[Last Daze]

On 9/3/2023 at 6:17 AM, Diaste said:

However, you probably are looking for an explanation of "And the Lord God will blow the trumpet," and how that fits in with the idea the loud, God's and last are all the same trump. Well, I don't see the Lord physically blowing any trump. He would give the command to sound the trump.

I agree that it's likely not a physical trumpet that's blown.  Have you noticed the correlation between God's voice and trumpets?  For example:

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet.  Rev 1:10

A reference to Christ.  And this one:

Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come out.  John 5:28-29a

We know that a resurrection happens at the trump of God, which also occurs when His voice is heard.

And then there's the Sinai account of receiving the 10 commandments with a trumpet / voice connection.  Something to think about.

[Revelation Man]

On 9/1/2023 at 4:31 AM, Diaste said:

1 Cor 15

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothedf with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

The Last Trump is speaking about the Feast of Trumps which puts a stop to the Harvest. Jesus fulfills all 7 Feasts, not only the three spring Feasts. They were called Holy Convocations (Dress Rehearsals)

When  Moses and Elijah shows up at the 1335 to turn Israel back unto God, then show them a 3000 plus year old practice is were all pointing to Messiah Jesus, and the  show how he was 1.) The Passover who died 2.) The Unleavened Bread who knew no sin 3.) The First-fruits of the Grave. NOW IT GETS INTERESTING, but why? Because Moses and Elijah will be talking about a current event, how the just ended 4.) Feast of Weeks or Summer Harvest,  ended via the 5.) Feast of Trumps and they will show how that was the Church Age was the Harvesting of souls by Jesus the High Priest, and how he alone ended that via blowing the Last Trump on the Feast of Trumps which have nothing to do with the Judgment Trumps of Rev. 8, 9 and 16. We see Jesus calls us home in Rev. 4:1 and as he does so John says his voice sounds as a Trump (Reverberates). 

These Appointed days always fall on the New Moon (God time) thus no one ever know the exact day nor hour. Likewise no one will know the exact day nor hour Jesus will be told to return for his bride by ending the Harvesting of souls, but we will know the season, of course. By explaining how their 7 Feasts given to them 1000's of years ago foretold all of human history, it will suddenly hit them, the next feast is the 6.) Feast of Atonement and they must atone before Jesus returns. Then after the Jews atone they will dwell with Jesus for 1000 years via the 7.) Feast of Tabernacles. 

I honestly do not understand how anyone being taught the 7 Feasts meaning can continue to teach the Last Trump means the 7th Trump. It is just not  defensible teaching brother. It is so obvious that the LAST TRUMP ends the Church Age Harvest. 

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Last Trump is speaking about the Feast of Trumps which puts a stop to the Harvest. Jesus fulfills all 7 Feasts, not only the three spring Feasts. They were called Holy Convocations (Dress Rehearsals)

No last trump at the Feast of Trumpets. Doesn't mention a 1st or last trump, just a memorial of blowing trumps. A last trump there would be mere coincidence, at some point there would be a trumpet sound where none would follow.

In the case of the 7th trump, it is very clearly a last trump and the only one in all scripture associated with the end of the age.

In fact, it is the last trump in a clearly marked set of 7 trumps. So as far as last trumps go, the 7th is the best candidate.

 

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

I honestly do not understand how anyone being taught the 7 Feasts meaning can continue to teach the Last Trump means the 7th Trump. It is just not  defensible teaching brother. It is so obvious that the LAST TRUMP ends the Church Age Harvest. 

You go ahead and live in the past under the Law if you like, teach traditions and the like if you wish. 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:17 AM, Diaste said:

 

As I often do, I associate passages related to events as descriptions of the same event; non-contradictory descriptions of that event that are added details of the time or event. 

Just like Jesus describes the A of D in the Gospels, Daniel in 9,11,12 describes the A of D, and Joel has a few things to say about it; all describe the event with added details and when all is taken into account a clearer picture emerges. 

Jesus says the A of D 'stands'. Daniel says it greatly appalls and abolishes ritual and desecrates, Joel speaks to the conditions surrounding the meat and drink offering cut off from the House of God. Not 3 distinct times/events, one time/event described by varied vantages.

So the above passage from Zechariah would fit in with 2nd advent as descriptions of that time merging with other passages and descriptions of the 2nd advent.

However, you probably are looking for an explanation of "And the Lord God will blow the trumpet," and how that fits in with the idea the loud, God's and last are all the same trump. Well, I don't see the Lord physically blowing any trump. He would give the command to sound the trump.

In ancient times in Israel, lookouts sounded the trump with the enemy on the horizon, under command of the captain of the guard, and by extension the king. Same with a war trumpet, the king wasn't sounding the trumps, he gave the command for the trumps to sound.

There is this precedent from Numbers 10:

"²Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. ³And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. ⁴And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee. ⁵When ye blow an alarm, then the camps that lie on the east parts shall go forward. ⁶When ye blow an alarm the second time, then the camps that lie on the south side shall take their journey: they shall blow an alarm for their journeys. ⁷But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall not sound an alarm. ⁸And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations. ⁹And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the Lord your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies. ¹⁰Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God.... "

God is using personal pronouns as if Moses was going to sound the trumps, but in reality it was the priests. I think it's the same thing in Zech 9. The Lord gives the command, the trumpet bearers, whomever they are, sound the trump.

From 1 Thess 4, "16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel," it appears this command comes from the voice of the archangel, not the Lord Himself. 

In the end I'm quite convinced duties are delegated in the administration of the kingdom in all aspects, including the King's arrival, the gathering and the call to war. So, same trump as God's, loud and last and not physically blown by the Lord God Himself.

 

The book of revelation has the best description of the abomination of desolation set in Jerusalem by the armed forces.

Revelation ,6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

Keep i mind when you read of an  earthquake such as the one in revelation 6:12, that is is the armed forces that has  created that earthquake.It takes place when one nation attacks another.

Mathew 24:7

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

 

The cause of the earthquake in revelation 6:12 is the abomination that causes desolation being placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces.The earthquakes,pestilences and famines are all caused by armed conflict.

 

This particular weapon is placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces before the seventh Trump as seen in the great earthquake and the cloud ascending into heaven in revelation 11.

 

¹² And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

¹³ And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

¹⁴ The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

No last trump at the Feast of Trumpets.

Of course there is, its a NOTED EVENT, and Paul was referring unto it, now go study it brother. Why do you think its called the "Feast of Trumps"? Geeze. So, as I have stated on here many times before, the Feast of Trumps sounded in order to end the Summer Harvest and to signify that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacles were nigh at hand. How is it you can't match all this up having already seen the Passover COME TRUE, the Unleavened Bread and First-fruits COME TRUE and being we are now in the Feast of weeks/Summer Harvest, living in real time, and you can't see Feast of Trumps comes coming which ends the Harvest just like it did via the 7 Feasts the Jews/Israel practiced long ago. IMHO, you can't see it because it points to a Pre Trib Rapture, and of course we can not have that can we? But alas, its coming, even if we try and pretend its not a real event brother. 

The Last Trump, is Paul referring the the Last Trump in the Feast of Trumps and what it brings.

What Is the Feast of Trumpets?

In two brief passages tucked away in the Torah, Moses calls his hearers to observe what has become known as the Feast of Trumpets, or Rosh Hashana (Lev. 23:23–25; Num. 29:1–6). On the first day of the seventh month, God’s people were commanded to rest from their work and present offerings to the Lord. They were called to observe this day by blowing trumpets—hence the name given to the feast.

God frequently prompts his people to stop and prepare for what is to come. This is the function of the little-known Feast of Trumpets.

There’s some debate about whether this served as a New Year’s festival for the Israelites, something common in the ancient Near East. This seems unlikely given it occurs in the seventh month. The feast does, however, fall at the end of the grape harvest and just prior to the annual rains. The Feast of Trumpets could be viewed as marking the beginning of the agricultural year.

Why Is the Feast Significant?

Though the feast is addressed only briefly in Scripture, we see three ways it’s significant.

First, it’s celebrated on the first day of the seventh month. Not all numbers are significant in the Bible, but the number seven carries connotations of perfection or holiness. Just as the seventh day of the week is holy, so too the seventh month is marked as special: a Sabbath month. This assertion is based on more than mere numbers. The seventh month carried three feasts or festivals: Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Tabernacles. The Feast of Trumpets is therefore an opportunity for the people to prepare themselves for this holiest of months in the Jewish calendar.

Second, consider the trumpet’s significance. Admittedly, the Hebrew word for “trumpet” doesn’t occur in either text, but the blast (Lev. 23:24; Num. 29:1) presupposes blowing a trumpet. Elsewhere in the Old Testament the trumpet blast is associated with God’s power or presence. Often it’s blown like a musical prayer to acknowledge or request divine help—a prayer that tends to be answered. At the beginning of the agricultural year, blowing the trumpet is an expectant prayer to God that marks the passing of one season and the anticipation of a new one.

At the beginning of the agricultural year, blowing the trumpet is an expectant prayer to God that marks the passing of one season and the anticipation of a new one.

Finally, the trumpet blast was a call for the people to respond. When they observed the feast, the people rested from work and offered sacrifices. This solemn rest—drawing aside from regular activities—acknowledges reliance on God. The trumpets call the people to prepare for the time later in the month when the high priest will enter the Holy of Holies. By resting, they remind themselves that the faithful God alone is their salvation.

The feast prepares the Israelites to meet their God.

Prepare to Meet Your God

In this way, we see the feast fulfilled in Jesus. Admittedly, there’s no quotation, reference, or allusion to either Leviticus 23:23–25 or Numbers 29:1–6 in the New Testament. But in Jesus we meet God, and at the very same time, we’re prepared to meet God.

Saying that a "Feast of Trumps" has no "Last Trump" is just not not being a realist brother you can't have a Feast of anything without having many of that particular feast, after all its named the Feast of Trumps, thus you have to have a Last Trump. Paul also gave us shadows of the other Feasts in is Epistles.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

In the case of the 7th trump, it is very clearly a last trump and the only one in all scripture associated with the end of the age.

You will see it all clear very soon my friend. 

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

In fact, it is the last trump in a clearly marked set of 7 trumps. So as far as last trumps go, the 7th is the best candidate.

 

The Feast of Trumps have nothing to do with Judgment Trumps.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

You go ahead and live in the past under the Law if you like, teach traditions and the like if you wish. 

 

Mmmmmm they were not laws per se, they were shadows pointing to Jesus. 

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course there is, its a NOTED EVENT, and Paul was referring unto it, now go study it brother. Why do you think its called the "Feast of Trumps"? Geeze. So, as I have stated on here many times before, the Feast of Trumps sounded in order to end the Summer Harvest and to signify that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacles were nigh at hand. How is it you can't match all this up having already seen the Passover COME TRUE, the Unleavened Bread and First-fruits COME TRUE and being we are now in the Feast of weeks/Summer Harvest, living in real time, and you can't see Feast of Trumps comes coming which ends the Harvest just like it did via the 7 Feasts the Jews/Israel practiced long ago. IMHO, you can't see it because it points to a Pre Trib Rapture, and of course we can not have that can we? But alas, its coming, even if we try and pretend its not a real event brother. 

The Last Trump, is Paul referring the the Last Trump in the Feast of Trumps and what it brings.

No. 

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

What Is the Feast of Trumpets?

In two brief passages tucked away in the Torah, Moses calls his hearers to observe what has become known as the Feast of Trumpets, or Rosh Hashana (Lev. 23:23–25; Num. 29:1–6). On the first day of the seventh month, God’s people were commanded to rest from their work and present offerings to the Lord. They were called to observe this day by blowing trumpets—hence the name given to the feast.

And that is all. No first or last trump is mentioned. After these two verses, it's all tradition.

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

God frequently prompts his people to stop and prepare for what is to come. This is the function of the little-known Feast of Trumpets.

There’s some debate about whether this served as a New Year’s festival for the Israelites, something common in the ancient Near East. This seems unlikely given it occurs in the seventh month. The feast does, however, fall at the end of the grape harvest and just prior to the annual rains. The Feast of Trumpets could be viewed as marking the beginning of the agricultural year.

Why Is the Feast Significant?

Though the feast is addressed only briefly in Scripture, we see three ways it’s significant.

First, it’s celebrated on the first day of the seventh month. Not all numbers are significant in the Bible, but the number seven carries connotations of perfection or holiness. Just as the seventh day of the week is holy, so too the seventh month is marked as special: a Sabbath month. This assertion is based on more than mere numbers. The seventh month carried three feasts or festivals: Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Tabernacles. The Feast of Trumpets is therefore an opportunity for the people to prepare themselves for this holiest of months in the Jewish calendar.

Second, consider the trumpet’s significance. Admittedly, the Hebrew word for “trumpet” doesn’t occur in either text, but the blast (Lev. 23:24; Num. 29:1) presupposes blowing a trumpet. Elsewhere in the Old Testament the trumpet blast is associated with God’s power or presence. Often it’s blown like a musical prayer to acknowledge or request divine help—a prayer that tends to be answered. At the beginning of the agricultural year, blowing the trumpet is an expectant prayer to God that marks the passing of one season and the anticipation of a new one.

At the beginning of the agricultural year, blowing the trumpet is an expectant prayer to God that marks the passing of one season and the anticipation of a new one.

Finally, the trumpet blast was a call for the people to respond. When they observed the feast, the people rested from work and offered sacrifices. This solemn rest—drawing aside from regular activities—acknowledges reliance on God. The trumpets call the people to prepare for the time later in the month when the high priest will enter the Holy of Holies. By resting, they remind themselves that the faithful God alone is their salvation.

The feast prepares the Israelites to meet their God.

No scripture, just likening unimportant facts to prophetical doctrine, and refusing to see the important facts.

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Prepare to Meet Your God

In this way, we see the feast fulfilled in Jesus. Admittedly, there’s no quotation, reference, or allusion to either Leviticus 23:23–25 or Numbers 29:1–6 in the New Testament. But in Jesus we meet God, and at the very same time, we’re prepared to meet God.

But yet you do create a link that isn't there. 

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Saying that a "Feast of Trumps" has no "Last Trump" is just not not being a realist brother you can't have a Feast of anything without having many of that particular feast, after all its named the Feast of Trumps, thus you have to have a Last Trump. Paul also gave us shadows of the other Feasts in is Epistles.

As I said, a last trump at the feast would be coincident and there is no named last trump at the Feast. There is one in Revelation. But just ignore that since it's doesn't fit your doctrine.

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

The Feast of Trumps have nothing to do with Judgment Trumps.

Now how did you get this correct? 

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Mmmmmm they were not laws per se, they were shadows pointing to Jesus. 

 

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

And that is all. No first or last trump is mentioned. After these two verses, it's all tradition.

On 9/12/2023 at 9:31 AM, Revelation Man said:

Anyone who can add simple math (you don't want too it seems) can see the Rapture can only be Pre Trib. Before the Seals are ever opened we see the Church in Heaven, Rev. 4:4 and how they got there Rev. 4:1. And we see they have the VERY GIFTS Promised to those who OVERCAME in  Rev. 2:10 (Crowns) Rev. 3:5 (White Robes) Rev. 3:20-21 (they sit at God's Throne). And as Rev. 5:9-10 says they are REDEEMED by God (can't be Angels).  And as 1 Cor. 15 CLEARLY SHOWS, no man save Elijah and Moses, goes to heaven until the Rapture, the Dead RISE FIRST, then the living in Christ arise a blink of an eye later (meaning in essence at the exact same time, AT THE VERY END). So, who are those seen in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened? Well of course it can only be the Pre Trib Raptured Church, the very people we see in Rev. 19 before they get their White Robes and then AFTER they get married to the Lamb they return with Jesus to defeat who? The Beast and all his minions who is still on earth.

Its merely adding simple math to a simple timeline. However if we get the cart before the horse we can't see clearly.