Our default is the spirit (not the flesh)!

[Vine Abider]

9 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, I think Romans 8:9  to be a transitional statement, one of comparison, a contrasting comparison, with which He (Paul) had just been describing in the immediate preceding sentences. Simply put that he could recognize in the reader's, to which his letter was addressed, their faith by their faithing. Their work exhibits their faith.

Paul was stating that from what he knew of the behavior of the saints at Rome that "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." pertained to them, as they walked the talk. 

Yes, Romans 8:9 is key - "However, you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." I was just impressed that Paul spent the two preceding chapters conveying the fact, in various ways, that we are not "obligated to the flesh" because we are dead to it and the law! 

The point is really driven home again and again, and continues to be developed in chapter 8.  I think it is conveying that to "reckon ourselves dead" is the fist step in realizing we are in fact in Christ and are free to now walk in Him.

[Neighbor]

I don't know that one should then extrapolate that sentence 8:9 into  a statement that all Christians are in a default position of being in the spirit. I would rather think  it unlikely to be the case, As example the churches at Asia had condemnations hurled at them, (Except one) yet all were not totally condemned as not being able to recover to doing the works  by faithing, trusting in the faith of their first love Yeshua.

I do think it work to be in that  so called default position for faith of Yeshua calls for work by his own.

[Vine Abider]

4 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

I don't know that one should then extrapolate that into  a statement that all Christians are in a default position of being in the spirit. I would rather think  it unlikely to be the case, As example the churches at Asia had condemnations hurled at them, (Except one) yet all were no totally condemned as not being able to recover to doing the works  by faithing trusting in the faith of their first love Yeshua.

I do think it work to be in that  so called default position for faith of Yeshua calls for work by his own.

I think much of our Christian life is God renewing our minds to actually see what He has already done when He put us in Christ.

And I agree that faith will result in "faithing" that is, doing the good works which He has for us.

[Neighbor]

14 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes, Romans 8:9 is key - "However, you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." I was just impressed that Paul spent the two preceding chapters conveying the fact, in various ways, that we are not "obligated to the flesh" because we are dead to it and the law! 

The point is really driven home again and again, and continues to be developed in chapter 8.  I think it is conveying that to "reckon ourselves dead" is the fist step in realizing we are in fact in Christ and are free to now walk in Him.

Yes perhaps so, however I find myself in a contrarian view  from most ( Such is life) in that I do not feel  I am "freed", but instead that I was once free to be a fool (Or foolish) and now I cannot be for I am a conscript in the Army of Jesus.

As such I am absolutely duty bound to service at whatever post I am assigned, wherever it may, be for whatever purpose I am directed to fulfill. I stand my post. I am not longer free at all. And I love it!

If the conscription is a temporary service sign me up again right now, I will joyously  enlist. 

[Neighbor]

7 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I think much of our Christian life is God renewing our minds to actually see what He has already done when He put us in Christ.

Sure seems that way! I think it to be literally so.

[SpiritSong]

20 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Are we still free if after getting born again... we go back to living after the flesh which is to be living in sin?

Many do exactly this or never even turn away from their sin at all because they are told upfront that it's impossible for one to lose their salvation in spite of the Bible teaching one CAN lose their salvation.

Romans 8:13.14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God's Word is very clear and this was written to Christians that when one lives after the flesh they are under condemnation.  If they die in that condition, they will not spend eternity with Jesus.

The alternative is to claim one can live in sin and still be saved which is sadly what many Christians actually believe even as they claim they do not believe that.

We know they believe this because they claim you can't lose your salvation even if you were to live in sin... and this is the same claim the devil made to Adam and Eve

Apparently some believe Jesus went to the Cross to make what the devil said to Adam and Eve to be true!

The devil's claim was that you can sin and not die which is referring to being separated from the Lord which is spiritual death.... and sadly people are making that same claim today!

One has to ignore what the Lord says in order to make such a claim.







 

Are those believers you outline even genuine believers? If so, should the parameters apply to them?

[Neighbor]

55 minutes ago, SpiritSong said:

Many do exactly this or never even turn away from their sin at all because they are told upfront that it's impossible for one to lose their salvation in spite of the Bible teaching one CAN lose their salvation.

Hi, That  is a presumption, a blatant generality, without basis. I counter it with the inspired of God teaching of the saints right from the get go from Paul who asks  and answers the question within the complete text of what is now referenced as Romans 5 and 6.

One is not to sin all the more that grace may abound all the more. 

[Mr. M]

18 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I think much of our Christian life is God renewing our minds to actually see what He has already done when He put us in Christ.

And I agree that faith will result in "faithing" that is, doing the good works which He has for us.

Philemon 6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

We grow in faith, hope, and love in the ministering to one another.

This is why 1 Co 13 on faith, hope and love is between the chapter on the role of the Holy Spirit in the fellowship of the Saints, and the chapter on how to minister to one another by the NT definition of prophecy.

 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 

EDIFICATION in faith, hope, and love.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

18 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

Are those believers you outline even genuine believers? If so, should the parameters apply to them?

The bible speaks of people falling away from the faith.
They can't fall away if they were never in the faith to begin with.

It's good to go with the plain reading of scripture.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 9/6/2023 at 2:14 PM, Vine Abider said:

Both these are non sequiturs and claiming neither supposition makes it true.

Sounds like a good excuse for discounting what the Lord said in His Word.

We all know who the author of this kinda thinking comes from.