An Overview of the Tribulation.

[Marilyn C]

 

The scroll gives the main tribulation points - beginning, middle and end.

I have set out the details of the chapters according to where they come - beginning, middle, end.

(NOTE: all the Gt. Earthquakes line up for the end of the tribulation.)

What are your thoughts?

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

 

What are your thoughts?

I don't see a world federation.Just one in the middle east that has its mind set on destroying the harlot(opostate Israel).

What you have listed chapters 10-13 as taking place in a 3.5 year span ,I agree with.

After the 3.5 years I would place the time of judgement when the Israeli governments enemies overcome it.

Then the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem by the Israeli governments ally ,the USA.At this time the US destroys all the countries that have come against the US and Israel.

 

The great earthquake is caused by the abomination of desolation.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[AdHoc]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:01 AM, Marilyn C said:

 

What are your thoughts?

It seems like a lot of thought went into your sketch. If someone differs from you, they need a good argument. Here are mine;

Chapter 11 is a summary of the solution to Israel. The Two Witnesses prophesy for the duration of the Great Tribulation. Jerusalem is their point of testimony because the Beast is BOTH Political AND Religious Leader of the earth for the last 3.5 years. It ends with a positive. The resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses cause men "to give glory to the God of heaven"

Chapter 12 has five celebrities. The Dragon, The Woman, The Man-Child, "those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ" and "those who keep the commandments of God (not Christ)". I judge that Romans 9-11 displays New Jerusalem in this age. A Tree in parable is a king and his kingdom. Revelation 12 shows New Jerusalem during the Great Tribulation. Like the Olive Tree it has Christ, The Church and the Israelite Remnant. The Church is divided into the Overcomers who are raptured before the 1260 days, and the Lukewarm who must pass through the Great Tribulation. The Israelite Remnant and the slothful Christians are in view in Chapter 7. Their garments were dirty and needed to be washed.

Chapter 13 gives a profile of the Beast and his achievements. Note in verse 7 that any "saints" left on earth will be defeated by the Beast (v.7).

Chapter 14 has three harvests. The Virgins who go wherever the Lamb goes and who are redeemed FROM the earth in rapture. Then the harvest of the earth. This would be the slothful Christians and Israel. Then is the harvest of the Vine clusters of the earth which lands in judgment, most probably the Nations and Armageddon.

Chapter 17 is the destruction of the various world religions so that ALL worship can go to the Beast. It contains the Tares of Matthew 13.

Chapter 18 is the destruction of the world commercial system. Note in verse 4 that God's people are found in it.

Chapter 19 the rapture and Bema Seat of Christ to judge His Church. The first half is to establish who is REWARDED and the second half is the Overcomers being part of Christ's army for the bloody slaughter of Armageddon.

Chapter 20 is the events of the Millennium and its bloody end

Chapter 21 and 22 show all problems sorted out by our Lord Jesus, all enemies subdued, a pristine earth, a City that is at once a wife, tabernacle, city, Kingdom and for ruling the earth.

And now that I look back on what I've written, I think that I have provoked more questions than I answered.

[Marilyn C]

43 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

It seems like a lot of thought went into your sketch. If someone differs from you, they need a good argument. Here are mine;

Chapter 11 is a summary of the solution to Israel. The Two Witnesses prophesy for the duration of the Great Tribulation. Jerusalem is their point of testimony because the Beast is BOTH Political AND Religious Leader of the earth for the last 3.5 years. It ends with a positive. The resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses cause men "to give glory to the God of heaven"

Chapter 12 has five celebrities. The Dragon, The Woman, The Man-Child, "those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ" and "those who keep the commandments of God (not Christ)". I judge that Romans 9-11 displays New Jerusalem in this age. A Tree in parable is a king and his kingdom. Revelation 12 shows New Jerusalem during the Great Tribulation. Like the Olive Tree it has Christ, The Church and the Israelite Remnant. The Church is divided into the Overcomers who are raptured before the 1260 days, and the Lukewarm who must pass through the Great Tribulation. The Israelite Remnant and the slothful Christians are in view in Chapter 7. Their garments were dirty and needed to be washed.

Chapter 13 gives a profile of the Beast and his achievements. Note in verse 7 that any "saints" left on earth will be defeated by the Beast (v.7).

Chapter 14 has three harvests. The Virgins who go wherever the Lamb goes and who are redeemed FROM the earth in rapture. Then the harvest of the earth. This would be the slothful Christians and Israel. Then is the harvest of the Vine clusters of the earth which lands in judgment, most probably the Nations and Armageddon.

Chapter 17 is the destruction of the various world religions so that ALL worship can go to the Beast. It contains the Tares of Matthew 13.

Chapter 18 is the destruction of the world commercial system. Note in verse 4 that God's people are found in it.

Chapter 19 the rapture and Bema Seat of Christ to judge His Church. The first half is to establish who is REWARDED and the second half is the Overcomers being part of Christ's army for the bloody slaughter of Armageddon.

Chapter 20 is the events of the Millennium and its bloody end

Chapter 21 and 22 show all problems sorted out by our Lord Jesus, all enemies subdued, a pristine earth, a City that is at once a wife, tabernacle, city, Kingdom and for ruling the earth.

And now that I look back on what I've written, I think that I have provoked more questions than I answered.

Hi Ad Hoc, 

A lot of conjecture there without any scriptural back up. Easy to write opinions but harder to do the work of actually backing up with scripture. May I suggest - 

`Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH. ` (2 Tim. 2: 15) 

Let`s discuss scripture and not opinions.

Marilyn.

[AdHoc]

39 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc, 

A lot of conjecture there without any scriptural back up. Easy to write opinions but harder to do the work of actually backing up with scripture. May I suggest - 

`Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH. ` (2 Tim. 2: 15) 

Let`s discuss scripture and not opinions.

Marilyn.

What good advice.

[WilliamL]

On 9/10/2023 at 5:01 PM, Marilyn C said:

 

The scroll gives the main tribulation points - beginning, middle and end.

I have set out the details of the chapters according to where they come - beginning, middle, end.

(NOTE: all the Gt. Earthquakes line up for the end of the tribulation.)

What are your thoughts?

6-7 Trial and trib of the Church

8-14 Trial and trib of Israel for 1260 days

15-19 Trial and trib of nations

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

6-7 Trial and trib of the Church

8-14 Trial and trib of Israel for 1260 days

15-19 Trial and trib of nations

Hi William,

Thank you for your comments. I like the way you have `trial and trib. ` Now, just a few questions.

1. Ch. 6 & 7 - I do not see the Body of Christ there, but the nations which the Father said He would bring to His son`s feet, (for judgment. (Ps. 110: 1,  Ps. 2: 6)

2: The 1,260 days and all the other measurements are at the same time, (Rev. 11: 2 & 3,   12: 14,   13: 5) the last half of the trib, for when the Lord returns to judge the nations then that is the end of the A/C ruling, (42 months, or 1,260 days)

3. Notice that the Gt. Earthquake is in 5 places, revealing the end of the trib. I do agree that Ch. 15 - 19 have the trial and trib, of the nations but then so does ch. 8 & 9 the trumpet judgments. 

The only clear way to read through Revelation concerning the unveiling of the Lord and what He is doing, is to have the - beginning, middle and end positions so that everything aligns with them.

regards, Marilyn.

[WilliamL]

On 9/18/2023 at 6:48 PM, Marilyn C said:

1. Ch. 6 & 7 - I do not see the Body of Christ there, but the nations which the Father said He would bring to His son`s feet, (for judgment. (Ps. 110: 1,  Ps. 2: 6)

The "ones coming out of the great tribulation" (7:14) are those raptured to heaven, where they here "are st[anding] before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands..." Just as Jesus foretold:

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass [in context, the Great Tribulation], and to stand before the Son of man."

Nothing in these chapters speaks of the nations brought before the Son's feet; quite the contrary.

On 9/18/2023 at 6:48 PM, Marilyn C said:

2: The 1,260 days and all the other measurements are at the same time, (Rev. 11: 2 & 3,   12: 14,   13: 5) the last half of the trib, for when the Lord returns to judge the nations then that is the end of the A/C ruling, (42 months, or 1,260 days)

True, they are all the same period. Nothing, however, in the Bible says the trib will be 7 times. That teaching is a human-imposed presumption on the Scripture. And nothing in Revelation even mentions the word Antichrist; again, a presumption.

On 9/18/2023 at 6:48 PM, Marilyn C said:

3. Notice that the Gt. Earthquake is in 5 places, revealing the end of the trib. I do agree that Ch. 15 - 19 have the trial and trib, of the nations but then so does ch. 8 & 9 the trumpet judgments. 

No, the GT earthquake is only at the 6th Seal. Other quakes will occur later, the final one in Rev. 16 being the greatest. The same as there being three earthquakes during the era of the Exodus, which closely foreshadow those of the End Times:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1089-the-three-earthquakes-of-revelation/

True, the nations go through tribulation during Rev. 8-9; but the trumpets judgments take place during the time of the final judgment of Israel, whereas the final judgment of the nations takes place during the bowls. (Just as all groups, Church-Israel-nations, will suffer during the Seals. Each period, seal-trumpets-nations, has its own special focus group, so to speak.)

All these three separate judgments foretold in type during the Exodus era, as shown in the 4-part blog series beginning here:

48. The End Times and the Exodus, Part 1

First of a four-part series that shows how the events of the Israelite Exodus out of Egypt, and their subsequent wilderness sojourn and conquest of Canaan, allegorically portray in great detail the full sequence of events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ. Begins with the Seven Spirits. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1980-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-1/

Edited September 20, 2023 by WilliamL

[Revelation Man]

On 9/10/2023 at 6:01 PM, Marilyn C said:

The scroll gives the main tribulation points - beginning, middle and end.

I have set out the details of the chapters according to where they come - beginning, middle, end.

(NOTE: all the Gt. Earthquakes line up for the end of the tribulation.)

What are your thoughts?

 

Until you get that there are only Three Chapters of Judgments, Rev. 8 (4 Trumps) Rev. 9 (2 Trumps/2 Woes) Rev. 16 (1 Trump which is the 3rd Woe, which is the 7 Vials) you will not understand the timings as laid out in the Book of Revelation (BoR).

You have 8-9, then include 10-13 and not a one of them is a part of God's Wrath per se, they lay out key cogs of the troubles, the 7 Thunders are merely the 7 Trumps, thus that = God's entire Wrath in one chapter. Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses ministry, the reason we get NO DERTAILS of the 2nd Woe is, of course, the 2nd Woe happened in real time in Rev. 9, we are now looking at the two-witnesses ministry which just happened to happen whilst all Four Trump and 2 of the Woes happen, they pry down the 3rd Woe but are back in heaven when it comes to pass. Rev. 12 is the Red Dragon kicked down to earth at the Mid-way point of the 70th week, thus he chases the Woman (Israel) for 1260 days. In Rev. 13 the Dragons Anti-Christ rules for 1260 days. None of that is a part of the Wrath per se, it just happens at the same time as God's Wrath.

Rev. 14 covers the 7 Yeas of Harvest from the Pre Trib Harvest in vs. 14 to the end time Wheat (Israel/144,000) and the Wicked Grape Harvest (TARES). Rev. 15 happens in Heaven and Rev. 16 covers the last 75 days of God's Wrath