Did the 'dead' rise before Christ did?

[DeighAnn]

51 minutes ago, Diaste said:

It's just an analogy. A grain of wheat sown grows into wheat bearing the seeds of it's own perennial rebirth, but always into wheat, never into oats, flax or corn.

The seed of wheat becomes an enhanced form of the seed, bearing fruit. 

Still wheat, just better.

except for this part

And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.



 

53 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Nope. I'm just diligent to make sure it's God's words and not just Paul's.

Paul points it out when it is just his words...doesn't he?

 

55 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Dispensational foolishness. All from all time are saved by grace through faith and that applies to everyone who ever lived. 

Only one person ever fulfilled the terms of the law and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Whatever the 'dispensational foolishness' means I HAVE NO IDEA, so whenever you say that it goes right above my head and since I don't want to know, please don't tell me, just thought you should know.  I just follow where the Holy Spirit leads.  

all I know is it is SOWN A NATURAL BODY it is raised a spiritual body

and their natural bodies went into the grave/were sown

 so I BELIEVE and I have no other choice but to believe

they were raised a spiritual body. 

how could I EVER BELIEVE ANYTHING BUT THAT WHEN I READ

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.  

There is a natural body AND there is a spiritual body


THE BODY SOWN NOT THE BODY RAISED.   Maybe I am just to simple to think it doesn't mean exactly that.  
 

One body knit in the womb, the other made in heaven without hands

57 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Do we go immediately to be with Jesus? Is there a waiting period? Do we go to some safe place and await arrival in to the kingdom of God? Is there a rest like suspended animation? Does everyone who goes to heaven have the same experience on the trip from here to there? I don't have those answers. 

I got it, you don't know  


but if you ever want to
Matt 7

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

 

 

[DeighAnn]

19 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I don't know if I said the exact same old body is somehow preserved then raised up. 

If I did imply that I should not have. If I didn't, why do you keep arguing against something I did not say?

It's the same form, enhanced to the point of immortality. Like If I died and then was later resurrected into immortality then everyone I knew previously would recognize me. Just like Christ was resurrected in the same form and when He allowed it, everyone who knew Him before He died recognized Him. 

And we are resurrected in that same verisimilitude. 

God created us just like He wanted us. I don't think He rolled dice and then let chance dictate. He will keep us just as we are in form and face, but upon resurrection we are enhanced into the full glory which was intended before the fall. 

I'm convinced the examples of scripture back that up.

I am also convinced we retain our image just what is 'strange flesh' to us now won't be once we rise as Jesus told us, we will be like the angels in heaven.  
 

20 minutes ago, Diaste said:

If you read before and after the selected snippet one should conclude it's a change from mortal to immortal. The immortal, the change of nature from mortal to immortal, is the cloth of which we will be clothed. 

The spiritual, and bodily, perfection to immortality is what awaits.

WHAT WORDS WOULD GOD have NEEDED TO USE for you to understand not this body but another one

or THE BODY YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW GOES BACK TO DUST but I AM TAKING A STRAND OF DNA AND GIVING YOU A NEW BODY MADE NOT from the EARTH BUT from the heavens

(and will not have any blood??? where does that come from?? or does it?) 

Which of course isn't all that strange when you think about it because everything spoken in the heavens was spoken for the earth, right? which begs the question is the reason for it being 'celestial' because the earth was corrupted?  

Anyways, I obviously just can't follow how NOT the body IS the body while not the body remain a truth.  


2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    And    Conj
3739 [e]    ὃ
ho    what    RelPro-ANS
4687 [e]    σπείρεις,
speireis    you sow,    V-PIA-2S
3756 [e]    οὐ
ou    not    Adv
3588 [e]    τὸ
to    the    Art-ANS
4983 [e]    σῶμα
sōma    body    N-ANS
3588 [e]    τὸ
to    that    Art-ANS
1096 [e]    γενησόμενον
genēsomenon    will be    V-FPM-ANS
4687 [e]    σπείρεις,
speireis    you sow,    V-PIA-2S
235 [e]    ἀλλὰ
alla    but    Conj
1131 [e]    γυμνὸν
gymnon    a bare    Adj-AMS
2848 [e]    κόκκον
kokkon    grain,    N-AMS
1487 [e]    εἰ
ei    if    Conj
5177 [e]    τύχοι
tychoi    it may be    V-AOA-3S
4621 [e]    σίτου
sitou    of wheat,    N-GMS
2228 [e]    ἤ
ē    or    Conj
5100 [e]    τινος
tinos    of some    IPro-GNS
3588 [e]    τῶν
tōn    of the    Art-GNP
3062 [e]    λοιπῶν·
loipōn    rest.    Adj-GNP








 

[DeighAnn]

49 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Well, you're the one who mentioned God getting mad.  I was just correcting your misconception.

Off topic

[FreeGrace]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

Off topic

How about this?  Get back on topic.  The last day of posts had nothing of topic in them.

To begin, let's deal with your questions about the status of souls after death and before resurrection.  We KNOW that Paul taught that physical death was being "absent from the body" and "at home with the Lord", per 2 Cor 5:8.  

The Bible doesn't describe how souls look between death and resurrection.  So we need to "get over it" because we don't know.  I think that's the base of your confusion, trying to fit a scenario with souls with bodies even before resurrection to specific verses.  And that just can't be done.

Once you accept that we don't know how souls are 'dressed/etc' after death, the better to understand what the Bible does tell us.

Go.

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Go.

I understand.  I think on like this (and not speaking to where either of us are) those who haven't gone from milk to meat don't understand what those who have understand.  We are in two different places until the Lord brings us together.  

I am not able to share my understanding with you. How you translate that to your understanding is up to you, whether it be you believe I have understanding or not, we're good...you asked, I replied, we debated, we come to an impasse.  I feel we are both right where we are supposed to be, so let us PRAISE THE LORD and each seek for more 'treasure' as the Holy Spirit leads us. 



 

[DeighAnn]

7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.   Eph 4

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 We are in two different places until the Lord brings us together.

That means one of us (or both) are wrong then.  I KNOW what Scripture says and I've shown the truth.  You still think there is only 1 resurrection for everyone, evren though Rev 20:5 shows clearly the FIRST resurrection includes trib martyrs (and 1 Cor 15:23 says that all the saved will be resurrected "when He comes") and notes that the first resurrection is 1,000 years before the next one, which obviously is the one for all the unsaved.

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I am not able to share my understanding with you.

I know that what you have shared is not what the Bible says.

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How you translate that to your understanding is up to you

There is no need of "translating".  They have already been translated into English, and the words in the verses I have shared don't need "more translationd" or interpretation.  They are clear.  Do you know what "unambiguous" means?  Those are what the verses I quote are:  unambiguous.

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

, whether it be you believe I have understanding or not, we're good...you asked, I replied, we debated, we come to an impasse.

Again, I think the impasse is based on your wanting to know how a "departed soul" is dressed, and the Bible doesn't give us those details.  The result is you have confused and conflated verses in an attempt to get an answer to your wish.

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  I feel we are both right where we are supposed to be, so let us PRAISE THE LORD and each seek for more 'treasure' as the Holy Spirit leads us. 

I don't agree.  Our views are basically opposites.  Is that how the Lord wants His children?  Of course not.  As I said, either one or both us is wrong.  It is that simple.

 

[DeighAnn]

26 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

don't agree.  Our views are basically opposites.  Is that how the Lord wants His children?  Of course not.  As I said, either one or both us is wrong.  It is that simple.

ok

[Know Jah]

Question, if all the pre-Christian good people didn't go to heaven. Where did they go?

[FJK]

2 minutes ago, Know Jah said:

Question, if all the pre-Christian good people didn't go to heaven. Where did they go?

The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man seems to suggest they did go to heaven, through righteousness.

Jesus said it and, IMO, he wouldn't have said it if it was misleading.

(FWIW, I'm equating "good people" with righteous ones here.)