Did the 'dead' rise before Christ did?

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Matt Mark Luke and John have Jesus coming and starting His ministry.  Did that happen 4 different times?  Does the book of Revelation go in order?

Do the chapters of Daniel 9 10 11 and 12 go in order?  

I am missing your point.   

Similar things take place more than once.  Just because they look or sound the same FOR THE MOST PART, doesn't mean they are speaking of the same event. 

There are signs in the sun, moon and stars NUMEROUS TIMES.  Are they all the same event?  No, the details tell us whether or not they fit. Listing these events from chapter 11 to 12 doesn't prove Dan 12 fits the 2nd Advent.  

 

Well if you believe the great tribulation in Daniel 12:1 and the raising of the dead in Daniel 12:2 does not take place when Christ comes then when are you saying the great tribulation took place?

Are you saying this great tribulation took place when Christ rose from the dead ,?

 

Daniel 12:1

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

What year are you saying the great tribulation was?

[Shilohsfoal]

26 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

THE TIME OF THE DEAD.  The dead who have 1000 years to WORK to get their names in the book of life.  THE DEAD who will stand at the GWTJ


The LIVING are returning or being 'caught up' and will SIT UPON THE THRONES with Him as He rules the world with a rod of Iron.  

No,those who were killed are resurected in the first resurection.They were killed and they died.Then they are resurected and live. They are not trying to get their names written in the lambs book of life.Their names are already written and they do not die a second death.They live forever.

 

These people were dead and buried.Then they are resurected from the dead and given life.

 

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[DeighAnn]

10 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Well if you believe the great tribulation in Daniel 12:1 and the raising of the dead in Daniel 12:2 does not take place when Christ comes then when are you saying the great tribulation took place?

Are you saying this great tribulation took place when Christ rose from the dead ,?

I am saying THE KINGDOM AND THE KING WERE REJECTED and the KING CRUCIFIED is GREAT TRIBULATION.

I am saying when the New Covenant REPLACED the OLD, it didn't mean the promises and prophecies given under the Old CHANGED.  Daniel 12 wasn't prophecy about the end of the age, but the end OF AN AGE.  

I am saying there we SIGNS in the sun AND there was an earth quake just as there will be sign in the sun and an earthquake when Satan is cast out of heaven, like there will be signs in the sun and an earthquake when CHRIST RETURNS WITH all the Holy Saints

and that is when THE DEAD rise

and when THOSE WHO ARE HIS, the alive and remaining, those who have OVERCOME the one sent to overcome who have endured to the end ARE CHANGED because the Kingdom of Heaven is come to the earth.  

I hope I have been clear.  I hope I have given Scripture that shows these things.  If there is anything for which I haven't given Scripture please let me know so I can make sure I have not made a mistake.  After all, it's why we are here, isn't it?  Don't want to take any lies or traditions of man with me before the judgment seat of Christ now do I since that is my number one fear.  

 

[Shilohsfoal]

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I am saying THE KINGDOM AND THE KING WERE REJECTED and the KING CRUCIFIED is GREAT TRIBULATION.

I am saying when the New Covenant REPLACED the OLD, it didn't mean the promises and prophecies given under the Old CHANGED.  Daniel 12 wasn't prophecy about the end of the age, but the end OF AN AGE.  

I am saying there we SIGNS in the sun AND there was an earth quake just as there will be sign in the sun and an earthquake when Satan is cast out of heaven, like there will be signs in the sun and an earthquake when CHRIST RETURNS WITH all the Holy Saints

and that is when THE DEAD rise

and when THOSE WHO ARE HIS, the alive and remaining, those who have OVERCOME the one sent to overcome who have endured to the end ARE CHANGED because the Kingdom of Heaven is come to the earth.  

I hope I have been clear.  I hope I have given Scripture that shows these things.  If there is anything for which I haven't given Scripture please let me know so I can make sure I have not made a mistake.  After all, it's why we are here, isn't it?  Don't want to take any lies or traditions of man with me before the judgment seat of Christ now do I since that is my number one fear.  

 

I don't believe there was a great tribulation the day Christ died.No one in judea was fleeing to the mountains .I believe the great tribulation is about the time of Christs coming,not his death.

Mathew 24

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

²³ Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

²⁴ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

²⁵ Behold, I have told you before.

²⁶ Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

²⁷ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

²⁸ For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[DeighAnn]

20 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

What year are you saying the great tribulation was?

Sorry missed that one.  THE GREAT tribulation OF THAT TIME would have been anywhere from 27AD to 33AD, right?  

But there have been many GREAT tribulations have there not? Certainly, a mom and dad watching their child eaten by a lion in front of a roaring crowd before they experience the same and/or a Christian tied up then having oil poured on him and lit on fire for a candle in the streets of Rome has suffered GREAT tribulation FOR HIS NAMESAKE, correct?  Is that any different than being here when the world is ruled by one government and Christians who refuse to worship 'an image' are 'beheaded'?   Not when you are that mom.  Being killed in the name of God is being killed in the name of God no matter the age.  

SO great is a relative term.  

So the last GREAT will be in that it will involve the whole planet and ALL the people on it will be affected in one way or another.  YES, the MAIN events to watch for is what will go on in Israel, but that is by NO MEANS the only place.  

Israel isn't JUST A NATION and ISN'T just ONE TRIBE.  It is a people of MANY NATIONS and KINGS, and SATAN doesn't like ANY OF THEM.  YES, his ultimate goal is to STAND where God would so he can proclaim himself to be GOD but the whole world will witness...remember the BEGINNING..

 

1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.  Matt 4

ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD WILL BE SATANS.  And they may not be 'mentioned' specifically but don't doubt for a second there will be a place on earth that isn't in his control.   




14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;

and then shall the end come.  And that end will be the LAST week when the BEAST will rise and then will receive the deadly wound and then the false prophet will rise and deceive the world with lying signs and wonders and then Jesus will return and HIS BRIGHTNESS will destroy the world of darkness and then the Lords Day will be for 'the dead' to come to repentance and then the last test and then God destroys all evil and then the New heaven and New earth AGE begins...and all memory of this age ends and who knows...maybe once again we will read...

In the beginning...


 

[DeighAnn]

14 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I don't believe there was a great tribulation the day Christ died.No one in judea was fleeing to the mountains .I believe the great tribulation is about the time of Christs coming,not his death.

I understand, and yet still I believe it will always be the greatest tribulation ever, 

39And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

40And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

41And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

42Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

43And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

45And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

46And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

47And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.

48But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

The second we TELL THE WORDS OF GOD what they mean is the second they quit revealing anything to us. 

If what we FIRST LEARNED was all there was to know, then there would be NO GOING FROM MILK TO MEAT.  Whenever we have stopped GROWING in wisdom and knowledge it isn't because there isn't anything left to learn, it is because our own religion is stopping us, NOT the words of God.

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9 KJV





 

[Shilohsfoal]

38 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Sorry missed that one.  THE GREAT tribulation OF THAT TIME would have been anywhere from 27AD to 33AD, right?  

But there have been many GREAT tribulations have there not? Certainly, a mom and dad watching their child eaten by a lion in front of a roaring crowd before they experience the same and/or a Christian tied up then having oil poured on him and lit on fire for a candle in the streets of Rome has suffered GREAT tribulation FOR HIS NAMESAKE, correct?  Is that any different than being here when the world is ruled by one government and Christians who refuse to worship 'an image' are 'beheaded'?   Not when you are that mom.  Being killed in the name of God is being killed in the name of God no matter the age.  

SO great is a relative term.  

So the last GREAT will be in that it will involve the whole planet and ALL the people on it will be affected in one way or another.  YES, the MAIN events to watch for is what will go on in Israel, but that is by NO MEANS the only place.  

Israel isn't JUST A NATION and ISN'T just ONE TRIBE.  It is a people of MANY NATIONS and KINGS, and SATAN doesn't like ANY OF THEM.  YES, his ultimate goal is to STAND where God would so he can proclaim himself to be GOD but the whole world will witness...remember the BEGINNING..

 

1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.  Matt 4

ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD WILL BE SATANS.  And they may not be 'mentioned' specifically but don't doubt for a second there will be a place on earth that isn't in his control.   




14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;

and then shall the end come.  And that end will be the LAST week when the BEAST will rise and then will receive the deadly wound and then the false prophet will rise and deceive the world with lying signs and wonders and then Jesus will return and HIS BRIGHTNESS will destroy the world of darkness and then the Lords Day will be for 'the dead' to come to repentance and then the last test and then God destroys all evil and then the New heaven and New earth AGE begins...and all memory of this age ends and who knows...maybe once again we will read...

In the beginning...


 

So you believe the time of tribulation ,the likes the world has never seen was in 27 ad.And at that time,All of Daniel people who names are written in the lambs book of life were delivered at that time.

Daniel 12:1

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

Since all of Daniels people who's name are written were delivered in 27 ad,then there is none left to be delivered.Correct?

[Shilohsfoal]

20 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I understand, and yet still I believe it will always be the greatest tribulation ever, 

39And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

40And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

41And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

42Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

43And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

45And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

46And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

47And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.

48But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

The second we TELL THE WORDS OF GOD what they mean is the second they quit revealing anything to us. 

If what we FIRST LEARNED was all there was to know, then there would be NO GOING FROM MILK TO MEAT.  Whenever we have stopped GROWING in wisdom and knowledge it isn't because there isn't anything left to learn, it is because our own religion is stopping us, NOT the words of God.

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9 KJV





 

But Christ said the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen will be at the time of his coming. That would be on the day of the Lord.

 

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

²³ Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

²⁴ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

²⁵ Behold, I have told you before.

²⁶ Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

²⁷ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

²⁸ For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

 

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

This time of great tribulation corresponds to Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

[Shilohsfoal]

Compare.

 

Mathew 24

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

 

Daniel 12:1

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Christ was buried in a tomb at Jerusalem after he died.He didn't go to Abraham who is buried in Hebron .Abraham also did not receive the promises at that time.Abraham will receive the promises when Christ returns.

 

Jesus said more than once that he was raised from the place of the dead. Jesus said that he will go to the heart of the earth for three days and he will be  raised from that place in three days.

Jesus said that I have the keys of Death and Hades and I have the Key of David. And he said that he was raised from the dead. 

He said that he will descent to the very low parts of the earth and then in three days he will be raised from the dead. 

And then he said: all authority has been given to me everywhere, in Heaven and in earth and in all things under the earth.

God has sited Jesus on his Throne on his right side and declared him Christ and Lord for all to see.  JESUS REIGNS FOREVER MORE, WITHOUT END...that what the Heavens declared...your rulership and your Kingdom will never end.

God has given all things to Jesus. The Heavenly Father judges no one, he has given the judgment to his Son Jesus Christ. 

God showed Stephen the Heavenly Vision and he said: God has made Jesus the one you Crusified Christ and Lord. 

(Take notice that I said that Jesus said: when I say that Jesus said: Jesus has said something and it is written in the Bible you are reading. Unless you have miss it.)

Jesus said it many times before he died on the Cross and after the resurrection that he was raised from the place of the dead on the third day. 

it is all in the bible, you do not have to read anyone's else's books. 

Ecclesiastes was not a spokesman of God and of his Christ...he never mentioned the need for the forgiveness of sins...he did not partake in the Celebrations of the Temple and the Atonements made by the High Priest in the most Holy Place...

He did not preach obedience to the book of Leviticus...in the Law of God. It sounds as if he was a politheist because he never distinguish faith only in the Lord God Almighty the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.   

Jesus Christ and the disciples never endorse him and never mention his name...He was not from God. And he did not speak in his name.  

Anyone who says that the body does not return to earth and stays there from dust to dust does not speak in the name of God...this is why Jesus had to hurry up and be raised from the dead before his body see corruption...

He needed his body to show the marks of his wounds because he identified himself from those marks to his disciples.