Are you sure that you shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven?

[Susan Miller]

Today one of my Christian friends told me that no matter what he does, Lord Jesus will forgive his sin, since he has accepted Lord Jesus as savior, and finally he shall enter into God's kingdom. 

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

[Michael37]

The Lamb's Book of Life has every name of those who are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

2 hours ago, Susan Miller said:

Today one of my Christian friends told me that no matter what he does, Lord Jesus will forgive his sin, since he has accepted Lord Jesus as savior, and finally he shall enter into God's kingdom. 

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

 

That is a good verse

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And in this next one shows these are doing the following in his name

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied (( in thy name)) and (( in thy name)) have cast out devils and (( in thy name )) done many wonderful works?

These are then told to depart from him on the basis of them working iniquity

Mat 7:23 And then  will I profess unto them, I never (( knew you )) depart from me, (( ye )) that work iniquity.

Paul seemed to understand this when he wrote to them who named the name of Christ to depart from iniquity

2 Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal,
The Lord (( knoweth them )) that are his. And, Let every one (( that nameth )) the name of Christ (( depart )) from iniquity.

So we have the assurance that

... The Lord (( knoweth them )) that are his.

Whereas in the other (who are naming his name while working iniquity) he says,

.... I profess unto them, I never (( knew you ))

And then we have Paul admonishing those who name his name saying

... Let every one (( that nameth )) the name of Christ (( depart )) from iniquity.

Could it be that Paul understood that picture, and that there would be those naming the name of Christ who were working iniquity unto whom Jesus would say

... I never (( knew you )) depart from me, (( ye )) that work iniquity.

Seems to show an either or situation.

Either depart from working inquity or depart from him (ye who work iniquity).

Shows the Lord knowing those that are His (who name his name) but also those who name his name who work iniquity. Then we have an admonishment from Paul to depart from the same and Jesus telling those who work iniquity (while naming his name) to depart from him.

Whenever I see, "Lord, Lord" it always reminds me of being double minded, theres always a foolish virgin or someone working iniquity where a "Lord, Lord" is.

I have heard something like, these people trusted in their own works in this picture

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied ((in thy name)) and (( in thy name)) have cast out devils and (( in thy name )) done many wonderful works?

But it does say  he wanted to purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works (See also Mark 16:7, & 1 Thes 5:20)

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from (( all iniquity )), and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

It was pretty much the working iniquity part he is emphasizing there

Mat 7:23  And then  will I profess unto them, I never (( knew you )) depart from me, (( ye )) that work iniquity.

Same as with Paul 

... Let every one (( that nameth )) the name of Christ (( depart )) from iniquity.

Which also makes sense seeing this is speaking of Christ being he that hates iniquity here

Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[AnOrangeCat]

7 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Whenever I see, "Lord, Lord" it always reminds me of being double minded, theres always a foolish virgin or someone working iniquity where a "Lord, Lord" is.

Makes me think of the wheat and the tares. A whole lot of potential reasons why such people missed the mark but the end result is the same. Jesus will tell them He never knew them. Going on to the topic...

2 hours ago, Susan Miller said:

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

This has come up a whole lot lately and the debate has raged since before any of us were born. It's going to continue after our physical bodies die, too. But my own thoughts? I think you hit a key phrase: "We must strive to pursue."

In a way your friend is correct: God is forgiving and short of the unpardonable sin will forgive us of our past, our errors, failings, and shortcomings. There's not one of us who doesn't sin, even after getting saved. But at least in my mind there's a difference between errors, failings, and shortcomings and just giving into sin without a fight, flippantly saying it's okay and God will forgive us. Instead of listing a bunch of verses to support my position I'm just going to point to the two great commandments Jesus mentioned: That we love God with all our heart, soul, and mind and that we love our neighbors as ourselves. What kind of love are we showing if we act selfishly and rebelliously, wallowing in our sin and saying it's okay, God will forgive us? People should think about themselves in God's situation. Imagine giving someone a gift and they treat it poorly, counting on you to forgive them for that as they knowingly continue to abuse the gift and engage in behaviors that offend you. That's not endearing. It doesn't show any kind of love, consideration, or respect toward the giver, and certainly doesn't make the giver feel good.

As a final note I do consider addictions and such to fall under the category of shortcomings and failures so long as the person is actually struggling against it, or in other words striving. Similarly I think mental illness can also be a special case because we know God is fair and just and Jesus Himself pointed out that there was a distinction made between servants who knew what they should do and didn't do it and those who didn't know any better.

[Logostician]

Yes.  I'm sure.

[TheBlade]

14 hours ago, Susan Miller said:

Today one of my Christian friends told me that no matter what he does, Lord Jesus will forgive his sin, since he has accepted Lord Jesus as savior, and finally he shall enter into God's kingdom. 

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

Hi I know the lord has so much grace and mercy (hello Christ) I just would rather not test it?  For me what I read and understand is "Lord lord"  that was not being said to any Church or any believer for there was none just Jews that lived by and under the law. The "lord lord" happens when Christ returns 2nd time yet means something else we will get to that later. Now some that believe they were here through the whole tribulation and made it till the end. Hmm how? Well did they worship the beast or take the mark? Because anyone that does not worship or take the mark dies. Its written before that( Rev 13 8?) no believer since the foundation of the world will worship the beast whos name is in the Lambs book of life. Many will be saved during that time (great tribulation). So when Christ returns He gathers the nations splits them sheep and goats. Those are they that He will say to one group "I never knew you". They were never saved. 

No one ever explains this. Well who are the sheep and goats? Are they just the living during that time? Well if you die now (God for bid) where do you go? The thief is with Christ right now in paradise as is the 12 (with Paul) all the 120, 3000 my mom dad, Grandma Grandpa, Billy Joe, Jean and Lio on and on. So what..... all of them right now with the Father are going to be pulled from heaven (paradise) back down here to be judged? How can that be when Christ already took it (sin  and all the wrath of God) on Himself? OT Did not God say "I will  remember their sin no more"? Is that one of those "what God really meant to say is only those that truly from their heart repented and then obeyed Him and all His commandments? 

So lets back up shall we? What was He talking about before? Context. Jesus continued to deal with the matter of false prophet's who claimed a special relations ship to Him and expected that their great works entitled them to be accepted. Its is difficult to determine the reasoning back of their saying "lord lord". It is similar to the use of "Rabbi or Master" a title which signified the authority of a teacher. So the point Jesus was making was that merely saying something does not make it so.  

Some take everything Christ said before 7:21 toss it out and put Christians in it when He was never talking to or about Christians or the Church. We can read it and apply it to us today making sure we are not just saying it but living it. ALL of this (sorry for caps) is what I read and understand. This is how I read and I understand it is not from anyone else.

 

 

 

 

[Vine Abider]

15 hours ago, Susan Miller said:

Today one of my Christian friends told me that no matter what he does, Lord Jesus will forgive his sin, since he has accepted Lord Jesus as savior, and finally he shall enter into God's kingdom. 

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

How do you see the kingdom - does it equate with eternity, or a period here on earth?

[FJK]

Luke 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.   (KJV)

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, Susan Miller said:

Today one of my Christian friends told me that no matter what he does, Lord Jesus will forgive his sin, since he has accepted Lord Jesus as savior, and finally he shall enter into God's kingdom. 

But I remember that our Lord Jesus said: “Not everyone that said to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).We can see from this that entering the kingdom of heaven is not a simple matter, not as long as we believe in the Lord we can enter the kingdom of heaven, we must strive to pursue. What's your opinion, my friends？

The 'Church' of this day and age seems to have forgotten or never even known some of these things...as to whether or not HATH means 'never perish' or not...such as in Acts 5

1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

 

Is it OK TO TEACH in anyway, that there is a 'choice' of any sort other than 'remaining in belief/ABIDING, walking, studying growing/maturing' that is OK?  I know it doesn't seem to matter how I try to show it as NOT BEING a doctrine OF GOD but a doctrine of man based upon a CONCLUSIONS of men from Gods word, or how it is a danger/stumbling block when given to those who don't know or understand still being on the milk, or how it is not a righteous doctrine to give credence to,  knowing it is used to deceive and doesn't make the wicked turn from their wicked ways but allows the question of HOW FAR IS TOO FAR when no turning away is good....

But GOD KNOWS, one day it will no longer be taught because the 'elements' are going to get burnt up and a lot of people are going to get scorched, if not worse.  



What do we learn from the Schoolmaster

1And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.

2And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

3Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying,

I will be sanctified in them that come nigh Me, and before all the people I will be glorified.
And Aaron held his peace.




When the Schoolmaster BRINGS you to Jesus, there are no questions like this asked.  It is known, don't do it and if you mess up repent and ask forgiveness.  It's Life or Death.  CHRIST is the Lamb of God but if having received THE GIFT makes anyone think GOD IS NOT THE SAME GOD as He has always been then I really don't think they are thinking right. 
  
Does this 'debate' rage on because of what it costs those have been convinced that 'HATH' (and the verses put forth like it) means no matter what?  And teach others so?  Who does this debate help?  GOD or the enemy?    



Numbers 16
1Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:

2And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:

3And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them:

wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

4And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face:

5And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.

16:32 - And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.  They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.


16:35 - And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.


16:49 - Now they that died in the plague were fourteen thousand and seven hundred, beside them that died about the matter of Korah





1 Samuel 6:19 - And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.


2 Samuel 6:7 - And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.


1 Chronicles 13:10 - And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God. 







 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

17 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

Makes me think of the wheat and the tares. A whole lot of potential reasons why such people missed the mark but the end result is the same. Jesus will tell them He never knew them.

 

I am just posting off of your post but not specifically to you, its long winded and just for anyone who might be interested given the topic (so dont feel obligated to read/ respond) 

I just wanted to add that you can demonstrate a little of the same.

"Lord, Lord" is often used in the examples where he is adressing them concerning those who do not the things which he says.

For example here

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

He then goes onto whosoever "coming to" Him, and who such a one is likened to that is both hearing him and doing what he says

Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like

This man who is likened to such a one laying the foundation on a rock (in hearing Christ and in doing His words)

Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Whereas to the contrary, this one is without a foundation (which heareth and doeth not Christ's words)

Luke 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

So again here, we see "Lord, Lord" is tied into not doing the will of the Father/ verse 23 ye that work iniquity

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The next verse is often cut off by some folks, but its followed by a "therefore" in verse 24

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his  house upon a rock:

"Contrary of" building "upon a rock" (as wise) in verse 24,  building "upon the sand" in verse 26 has to do with coming to him but not doing his sayings= no real foundation at all (not built upon the rock)

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Wise and foolish virgins, or wise or foolish builders. As it relates to the foundation (=Christ and his words) .

2 Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Which agree concerning them who would not be known (versus those who are known of him) which were adressed by Christ in this manner (as it pertains to "iniquity") shown earlier in Mat 7:23 

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

On a side note, I have also seen the word "never" in the above (in Matthew 7:23) come into dispute so just in case here is another verse besides that one (in Luke 13:25-27) in the same context of "working iniquity where he just says, "I know you not"

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

So we have Paul warning us saying,"let every one that nameth the name of the Christ to depart from inquity" as well as the words of Jesus who said he would say, "I never knew you, depart from me ye that work iniquity" or the other. See Matthew 7:23 or Luke 13:25-27 (so we can pick either one rather than pit them)

We also have this being done "In thy name" as is mentioned three times in those things actual believers would also be able to do as is shown in Matthew 7:22 And where it shows how he knows not these which say to him "Lord Lord" the same being said to them in Luke 13:25-27. And unto these Jesus speaks the same thing that work iniquity (as it pertains to building upon the foundation of the rock= "Me & My words/ doing them").  2 Timothy 2:19 also, where Paul confirms the foundation of God standeth sure  (shown in Luke 6:49) and the seal itself in the very examples of the same, saying, "The Lord knoweth them that are his", and he proceeds in commanding them in accord with the examples there while naming the name of Christ (alluded to in Matthew 7:22 three times) and for such to depart from iniquity. Seeing it does show those which work it are told to depart from Jesus Christ. 

Not forgetting to mention Jesus was sent to bless these first in turning them away from their inquities

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

To redeem us from all iniquity

Titus 2:14-15 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good  works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Whereas prior we had yeilded our members to inquity unto iniquity, we are to change our course

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Not to forget charity which is "the end of the commandment" as Paul writes in 1 Timothy 1:5

Saying likewise in 1 Cr 13:4 Charity.. Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth 1 Cr 13:6

And again, God the Father speaking to the Son of God in glory says,

Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, 
hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And so in following the same theme of "Lord Lord" and not doing the things he says and working iniquity as they can be shown in various places James tells us

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by AFlameOfFire