Introspection is pretty worthless, unless . . .

[Vine Abider]

I read the below in today's Supplied Life devotional and it really resonated with me.  How often do I get into a subjective mode where I am examining myself and getting down on myself for not living a better Christian life, not loving God enough, not being giving enough, etc. & etc.!? The result of this kind of subjective introspection seems to only produce condemnation in me and almost never seems to bring me closer to God.

But the leading verse says it - who can really know us (since our hearts our deceitfully wicked) except the spirit of man which is in us?  And being reborn children of God, our spirit is now joined to His (see 1 Cor 6:17).  So let's listen to our spirit, which is one with Him, and allow it to show us objectively what needs to be corrected in us!  He knows - we don't, so let's abide there and let Him show us these things.  To do otherwise is akin to the blind leading the blind . . . (aka religious flesh)

October 11th In your spirit you know

"For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11

Being subjective leaves us ignorant of ourself so that we do not know ourself in God's light. This is what subjectivity does. Who knows the things of man? Who knows the self? Who knows the rottenness of fallen man? Who knows that there is nothing good in himself? Who knows that this self is not to be trusted? Who knows that his opinion and reasoning are untrustworthy? Who knows himself? According to Paul's word, it is only the spirit of man that knows the things of man. This shows us that unless we are vitally joined to the most objective part of our being, our spirit, we are going to be ignorant concerning ourself.

We must realize that the spirit of man is the part in man that supplies to him his objectivity. In other words, to be objective, to be divided, to know yourself, even to condemn yourself, and to not trust yourself, your opinion, or your view, is to be a person that is exercised in spirit. When you are in the realm of the spirit, you become wise concerning your real state. You discover that there is nothing good in you, and you can admit it, confess it, and humble yourself. You can repent without strain. You can admit your fallen state. You can say, "I'm stubborn, I'm rebellious, I'm jealous, I'm bitter." You can confess your state with ease, because when you are in your spirit you know that in your flesh dwells no good thing. You are not trying to defend or excuse yourself. You are objective about yourself. And that objectivity makes it easy for you to always agree with God's diagnosis of the flesh (Rom. 7:14, 18).

[Mr. M]

9 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I read the below in today's Supplied Life devotional and it really resonated with me.  How often do I get into a subjective mode where I am examining myself and getting down on myself for not living a better Christian life, not loving God enough, not being giving enough, etc. & etc.!? The result of this kind of subjective introspection seems to only produce condemnation in me and almost never seems to bring me closer to God.

But the leading verse says it - who can really know us (since our hearts our deceitfully wicked) except the spirit of man which is in us?  And being reborn children of God, our spirit is now joined to His (see 1 Cor 6:17).  So let's listen to our spirit, which is one with Him, and allow it to show us objectively what needs to be corrected in us!  He knows - we don't, so let's abide there and let Him show us these things.  To do otherwise is akin to the blind leading the blind . . . (aka religious flesh)

October 11th In your spirit you know

"For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11

Being subjective leaves us ignorant of ourself so that we do not know ourself in God's light. This is what subjectivity does. Who knows the things of man? Who knows the self? Who knows the rottenness of fallen man? Who knows that there is nothing good in himself? Who knows that this self is not to be trusted? Who knows that his opinion and reasoning are untrustworthy? Who knows himself? According to Paul's word, it is only the spirit of man that knows the things of man. This shows us that unless we are vitally joined to the most objective part of our being, our spirit, we are going to be ignorant concerning ourself.

We must realize that the spirit of man is the part in man that supplies to him his objectivity. In other words, to be objective, to be divided, to know yourself, even to condemn yourself, and to not trust yourself, your opinion, or your view, is to be a person that is exercised in spirit. When you are in the realm of the spirit, you become wise concerning your real state. You discover that there is nothing good in you, and you can admit it, confess it, and humble yourself. You can repent without strain. You can admit your fallen state. You can say, "I'm stubborn, I'm rebellious, I'm jealous, I'm bitter." You can confess your state with ease, because when you are in your spirit you know that in your flesh dwells no good thing. You are not trying to defend or excuse yourself. You are objective about yourself. And that objectivity makes it easy for you to always agree with God's diagnosis of the flesh (Rom. 7:14, 18).

Here is John's take on the matter:

1 John 3:

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 

19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 

20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 

22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments 

and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.  23 And this is His commandment:

that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ 

and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

The Lord's Words to Solomon on the heart

1 Chronicles 28:9 As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father,

and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord 

searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. 

If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him,

He will cast you off forever.

The Introspection of the Heart is to receive conviction from the Holy Spirit

unto our Spirit, not condemnation from the flesh, or the enemy.

Hebrews 4:

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any 

two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit,

and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts

and intents of the heart. 

13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things 

are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

The Lord testifies to the work of the Holy Spirit in

His instructions to the disciples.

John 16:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away;

for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart,

I will send Him to you. 

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of

righteousness, and of judgment: 

9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 

10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 

11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

By the Holy Spirit, we can rightly judge our own hearts

1 Corinthians 2:

15 But he who is spiritual judges all things,

yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 

16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may

instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Good Topic!

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

Here is John's take on the matter:

1 John 3:

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 

19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 

20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 

22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments 

and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.  23 And this is His commandment:

that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ 

and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

The Lord's Words to Solomon on the heart

1 Chronicles 28:9 As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father,

and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord 

searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. 

If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him,

He will cast you off forever.

The Introspection of the Heart is to receive conviction from the Holy Spirit

unto our Spirit, not condemnation from the flesh, or the enemy.

Hebrews 4:

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any 

two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit,

and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts

and intents of the heart. 

13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things 

are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

The Lord testifies to the work of the Holy Spirit in

His instructions to the disciples.

John 16:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away;

for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart,

I will send Him to you. 

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of

righteousness, and of judgment: 

9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 

10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 

11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

By the Holy Spirit, we can rightly judge our own hearts

1 Corinthians 2:

15 But he who is spiritual judges all things,

yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 

16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may

instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Good Topic!

"The words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are life!"  John 6:63

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I read the below in today's Supplied Life devotional and it really resonated with me.  How often do I get into a subjective mode where I am examining myself and getting down on myself for not living a better Christian life, not loving God enough, not being giving enough, etc. & etc.!? The result of this kind of subjective introspection seems to only produce condemnation in me and almost never seems to bring me closer to God.

But the leading verse says it - who can really know us (since our hearts our deceitfully wicked) except the spirit of man which is in us?  And being reborn children of God, our spirit is now joined to His (see 1 Cor 6:17).  So let's listen to our spirit, which is one with Him, and allow it to show us objectively what needs to be corrected in us!  He knows - we don't, so let's abide there and let Him show us these things.  To do otherwise is akin to the blind leading the blind . . . (aka religious flesh)

October 11th In your spirit you know

"For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11

Being subjective leaves us ignorant of ourself so that we do not know ourself in God's light. This is what subjectivity does. Who knows the things of man? Who knows the self? Who knows the rottenness of fallen man? Who knows that there is nothing good in himself? Who knows that this self is not to be trusted? Who knows that his opinion and reasoning are untrustworthy? Who knows himself? According to Paul's word, it is only the spirit of man that knows the things of man. This shows us that unless we are vitally joined to the most objective part of our being, our spirit, we are going to be ignorant concerning ourself.

We must realize that the spirit of man is the part in man that supplies to him his objectivity. In other words, to be objective, to be divided, to know yourself, even to condemn yourself, and to not trust yourself, your opinion, or your view, is to be a person that is exercised in spirit. When you are in the realm of the spirit, you become wise concerning your real state. You discover that there is nothing good in you, and you can admit it, confess it, and humble yourself. You can repent without strain. You can admit your fallen state. You can say, "I'm stubborn, I'm rebellious, I'm jealous, I'm bitter." You can confess your state with ease, because when you are in your spirit you know that in your flesh dwells no good thing. You are not trying to defend or excuse yourself. You are objective about yourself. And that objectivity makes it easy for you to always agree with God's diagnosis of the flesh (Rom. 7:14, 18).

Hi VA,

Such an important topic, for people can get so discouraged by looking inward. I prefer to thank the Lord for what He has done and is doing and will do in my life. That praise and thanksgiving results in a hopeful heart and rests assured upon the Saviour`s ability to

- `keep you (& me) from stumbling and to present us faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy...` (Jude 24)

The focus is thus upon the Lord and His working in our hearts. 

[Vine Abider]

35 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

Such an important topic, for people can get so discouraged by looking inward. I prefer to thank the Lord for what He has done and is doing and will do in my life. That praise and thanksgiving results in a hopeful heart and rests assured upon the Saviour`s ability to

- `keep you (& me) from stumbling and to present us faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy...` (Jude 24)

The focus is thus upon the Lord and His working in our hearts. 

Amen!  One author I know calls it "morbid introspection" and says we are in no way qualified to introspect ourselves effectively.  But He is!

Actually, from what I've seen in my own experience and others, is introspection often just results in more outward religion, that in no way changes us on the inside.  (again, that's His job!)

[AnOrangeCat]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

The result of this kind of subjective introspection seems to only produce condemnation in me and almost never seems to bring me closer to God.

I was talking about this to someone recently and see two sides to it. On one side we tend to be our own worst critics. On the other side it really makes me think of faith without works. A person can feel bad and recognize their faults when they self examine, but what happens afterwards? The chain of events tends to be get introspective, feel bad, do nothing afterwards. But what can we do? James 4:8 gives some good advice that's rather close to my heart: "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you."

Starting in my teenage years I began suffering from some intrusive thoughts. It always involved aggression, ridicule, and insults directed toward God and the Holy Spirit. I'd panic, sometimes cry, or verbally lash out at those thoughts just out of reflex (I probably looked crazy). I was terrorized by this until an especially bad episode of it happened on my late 30s. Funny thing is that episode ended up motivating me to step up and go out of my way to touch someone else's life in the name of God, and to continue doing so. Turned out to be the best thing ever. Those thoughts still rear their ugly head every now and then but compared to what it used to be it's a breeze. It stands out to me as a strong reminder of the truth of James 4:8.

[Sower]

21 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

But the leading verse says it - who can really know us (since our hearts our deceitfully wicked) except the spirit of man which is in us?  And being reborn children of God, our spirit is now joined to His (see 1 Cor 6:17).  So let's listen to our spirit, which is one with Him, and allow it to show us objectively what needs to be corrected in us!

                 
                          Think you will like it,

                    Fact, Faith, and Experience (Watchman Nee)

 

The two sides of the truth — subjective and objective

 

  Scripture Reading: John 3:16; 14:16, 14:17; 15:4-5; 6:47; 4:14; 1 John 2:8; Phil. 1:20-21; 1 Cor. 1:30; Col. 1:27

  "We often speak about the matter of subjective truth and objective truth. All the truths in the New Testament are divided into these two categories, and similarly all the Old Testament truths are divided into these two categories. To make this matter clear to many of you, I would first like to explain the meaning of the words objective and subjective. The literal meanings of the Chinese words for objective and subjective are “guest’s view” and “host’s view.” Being objective is viewing things from the position of a guest or an outsider, and being subjective is viewing things from one’s self as a host. Viewing things from the position of an outsider is being objective, and viewing things from within is being subjective. Whatever occurs in others is objective; whatever occurs in me is subjective. All the truths that are not in me are objective truths; all the truths that are inside of me are subjective truths. All the truths outside of me are objective truths; they are truths, even though they are outside of me. All the experiences within me are subjective and are also truths. The Bible places equal weight on both aspects of these truths. I would now like to give you some illustrations.

Link;

https://bibleread.online/all-books-by-Watchman-Nee-and-Witness-Lee/book-fact-faith-and-experience-Watchman-Nee-read-online/20/

 

 

 

[Vine Abider]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:31 PM, Sower said:

                 
                          Think you will like it,

                    Fact, Faith, and Experience (Watchman Nee)

 

The two sides of the truth — subjective and objective

 

  Scripture Reading: John 3:16; 14:16, 14:17; 15:4-5; 6:47; 4:14; 1 John 2:8; Phil. 1:20-21; 1 Cor. 1:30; Col. 1:27

  "We often speak about the matter of subjective truth and objective truth. All the truths in the New Testament are divided into these two categories, and similarly all the Old Testament truths are divided into these two categories. To make this matter clear to many of you, I would first like to explain the meaning of the words objective and subjective. The literal meanings of the Chinese words for objective and subjective are “guest’s view” and “host’s view.” Being objective is viewing things from the position of a guest or an outsider, and being subjective is viewing things from one’s self as a host. Viewing things from the position of an outsider is being objective, and viewing things from within is being subjective. Whatever occurs in others is objective; whatever occurs in me is subjective. All the truths that are not in me are objective truths; all the truths that are inside of me are subjective truths. All the truths outside of me are objective truths; they are truths, even though they are outside of me. All the experiences within me are subjective and are also truths. The Bible places equal weight on both aspects of these truths. I would now like to give you some illustrations.

Link;

https://bibleread.online/all-books-by-Watchman-Nee-and-Witness-Lee/book-fact-faith-and-experience-Watchman-Nee-read-online/20/

 

 

 

Have to ask - how does this apply to the OP?  Doesn't this actually apply to this (below) thread?

 

[Sower]

38 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Have to ask - how does this apply to the OP?  Doesn't this actually apply to this (below) thread?

                 I thought it may interest you VA.
 

 

"Introspection is pretty worthless, unless . . ."

 

On 10/11/2023 at 2:16 PM, Vine Abider said:

How often do I get into a subjective mode where I am examining myself

 

On 10/11/2023 at 2:16 PM, Vine Abider said:

one with Him, and allow it to show us objectively what needs to be corrected in us!

On 10/11/2023 at 2:16 PM, Vine Abider said:

The result of this kind of subjective introspection seems to only produce condemnation

 

Fact, Faith, and Experience (Watchman Nee)

The two sides of the truth — subjective and objective

43 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Link;

https://bibleread.online/all-books-by-Watchman-Nee-and-Witness-Lee/book-fact-faith-and-experience-Watchman-Nee-read-online/20/

 

[Starise]

Several times recently I have had to drop to my knees and ask God to PLEASE rid my mind of these errant thoughts. My sinful mind tends to pre think scenarios that could only be coming from the flesh.

Have you ever caught yourself thinking something that really came out of left field? I know it's me, but it isn't the me I want to be, it's the old me. I believe everyone gets these thoughts, but the unsaved run with them. The saved might entertain them, which then crowds out what the Lord is trying to accomplish in you.

We can't blame  Satan. It's us, although he could be involved. Acknowledging it is the first step. Next, we need to confess it and ask God to please remove all of that.