Questions for evolution believers

[Eli1]

Just now, Sparks said:

For those saved, we will eventually become immortal with a body like Christ has now. 

And it is no effort for God to remove the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, stop telemeters from shortening, or to bring back the dead.  What are the implications you fear?

lol. There's that word "saved" again in Protestant circles. Leaving that alone for now. 

Ok good. There was no 2nd law back then. This is great, this is where i'm getting at and want to talk about. I want to talk about details.

So in this scenario God did not introduce entropy and Adam and Eve were in flesh and blood like we are now.

I totally accept this as an option. 

Since we have no way of verifying this, then would you think it's also acceptable to make some guesses based on what we see from the bone evidence of other animals?

Also, Do you think that God introduced Entropy after the original sin or was it the Devil who was allowed to introduce it?

[Sparks]

1 minute ago, Eli1 said:

Since we have no way of verifying this, then would you think it's also acceptable to make some guesses based on what we see from the bone evidence of other animals?

No.  A fossil is merely evidence that something that once lived, has died.  There are all kinds of fossils, but none back evolution theory.

2 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

Also, Do you think that God introduced Entropy after the original sin or was it the Devil who was allowed to introduce it?

God cursed the world after Adam sinned.  We now have death, birth pains, thorns, weeds and we have to work hard to get crops, and so on.  The world is a wreckage compared to Eden, and everything now rusts, dies, breaks, wears out, fails, or decays including us.

6 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

lol. There's that word "saved" again in Protestant circles. Leaving that alone for now.

That word 'saved' is what the New Testament is all about, and is a gift offer for us all to accept or decline.  Are you suggesting that salvation is not offered or possible?

[Eli1]

13 minutes ago, Sparks said:

No.  A fossil is merely evidence that something that once lived, has died.  There are all kinds of fossils, but none back evolution theory.

God cursed the world after Adam sinned.  We now have death, birth pains, thorns, weeds and we have to work hard to get crops, and so on.  The world is a wreckage compared to Eden, and everything now rusts, dies, breaks, wears out, fails, or decays including us.

That word 'saved' is what the New Testament is all about, and is a gift offer for us all to accept or decline.  Are you suggesting that salvation is not offered or possible?

I agree that there are holes in the evolution theory, but hey it's something that was theorized based on the things that we see right? Could it be wrong? Of course, humans are wrong all the time, but we make baby steps every century by readjusting our theories. 

Again i see these questions or theories as us reaching to our Creator. They absolutely come into no conflict with my faith. 

I also agree with you that God cursing the creation is as valid as anything we try to find out through our God-given reasoning. The technical details there are immense but the high-level theory is sound and it's also an option which i personally belive. 
But as i mentioned to you earlier, i also believe that Eden was not a location on Earth and that the original Adam and Even bodies were not like ours now, meaning not flesh and blood. I think they were more like the Jesus's body. Because that's the only real and closest thing we humans have come to understand the miracles of God. The body of Jesus is. 

 

As far as salvation goes ... i want to leave that alone for now in this topic but maybe we can talk about it in another topic. 

Here's some high level points on that. 
Most of you here are protestants i'm guessing. I go to an orthodox chuch and i was raised in Albania/Greece. There are a thousand cultural and theological differences between us so it's difficult to understand each-other. I was raised in the Orthodox Church atmosphere but now i also go to many churches like Protestant ones or Catholic ones. 

I would die for God but i don't know if i'm "saved" or "be saved". I don't treat this like a videogame and condemn millions to Hell and i don't approach God in fear but in Love and Need and Hope. 

It's been nice talking to you Sparks. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Eli1

[Sparks]

14 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

I agree that there are holes in the evolution theory, but hey it's something that was theorized based on the things that we see right? Coult it be wrong? Of course, humans are wrong all the time, but we make baby steps every century by readjusting our theories. 

Again i see these questions or theories as us reaching to our Creator. They absolutely come into no conflict with my faith. 

I also agree with you that God cursing the creation is as valid as anything we try to find out through our God-given reasoning. The technical details there are immense but the high-level theory is sound and it's also an option which i personally belive. 
But as i mentioned to you earlier, i also believe that Eden was not a location on Earth and that the original Adam and Even bodies were not like ours now, meaning not flesh and blood. I think they were more like the Jesus's body. Because that's the only real and closest thing we humans have come to understand the miracles of God. The body of Jesus is. 

As far as salvation goes ... i want to leave that alone for now in this topic but maybe we can talk about it in another topic. 

Here's some high level points on that. 
Most of you here are protestants i'm guessing. I go to an orthodox chuch and i was raised in Albania/Greece. There are a thousand cultural and theological differences between us so it's difficult to understand each-other. I was raised in the Orthodox Church atmosphere but now i also go to many churches like Protestant ones or Catholic ones. 

I would die for God but i don't know if i'm "saved" or "be saved". I don't treat this like a videogame and condemn millions to Hell and i don't approach God in fear but in Love and Need and Hope. 

It's been nice talking to you Sparks. 

Those things I mentioned about the world being cursed are based on Biblical Scripture.  It is mentioned in Genesis 3, 16-19 (ESV)

16 To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary of your husband,
but he shall rule over you.”

17 And to Adam he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”

There are absolutely massive holes in evolution theory.  It could not have happened that way.

I can appreciate your theory that Eden was some place else, but what evidence do you have for it?  The flood of Noah left everything destroyed.  What reason could it have not been here on Earth? 

If you want to know about why Protestants believe in Salvation, you can join me in live chat if you like, or on another thread. 

Nice chatting with you, too.

[Eli1]

7 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Those things I mentioned about the world being cursed are based on Biblical Scripture.  It is mentioned in Genesis 3, 16-19 (ESV)

16 To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary of your husband,
but he shall rule over you.”

17 And to Adam he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”

There are absolutely massive holes in evolution theory.  It could not have happened that way.

I can appreciate your theory that Eden was some place else, but what evidence do you have for it?  The flood of Noah left everything destroyed.  What reason could it have not been here on Earth? 

If you want to know about why Protestants believe in Salvation, you can join me in chat if you like, or on another thread. 

Nice chatting with you, too.

The only evidence that i have for Eden being into another realm or third heaven is the resurrected body of Christ. 

That body has nothing in common with our bodies. Nothing. So because i that, i reasoned that God could have created us into a different realm and then after the sin, dropped us in this fallen world. 

Now the thing about the Bible (that you quoted there) is that most of it is poetry and some is narrative writing. This is also why Jesus spoke in parables, because they stand the test of time. A sheep, wolf or snake are things which can be understood by a person 2000 years ago and 2000 years from now. 

I think some discernment is required when reading the Bible to not confuse literal things with spiritual things. 

As far as salvation goes, i've only heard 2 protestants so far (in other forums) who made a wonderful point about salvation which i also somewhat agree. 

But sure, i'll talk to you in private about that. 

Thank you. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Eli1

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Eli1 said:

FreeGrace said: 

God created science.  So everything in the Bible about creation is science.

Free will is not the issue, other than man is free to believe whatever he/she wants to believe.  But the Bible is clear how the earth and universe came to be.

Exactly! Through science we also get to know more about our Creator. Science glorifies God in my view. Science is not this thing that sits out there alone. Science is us, asking HOW questions.

True.  But God hasn't revealed all about the "how" questions.  

1 hour ago, Eli1 said:

FreeGrace said: 

This isn't about limitations.  It is about what the Bible says.  People either believe it or not.  That's free will.  But our origins are clearly given in Scripture.  And evolution isn't in it

You also have free-will to believe that the Bible fell from the sky. 

Now that would be very weird.  And why would anyone believe that??

[FreeGrace]

50 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

lol. There's that word "saved" again in Protestant circles. Leaving that alone for now.

lol.  The word is ALL OVER the Bible.  What's wrong with that word, except some people seem to bristle when they hear it.

50 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

 

 

[FreeGrace]

32 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

I agree that there are holes in the evolution theory, but hey it's something that was theorized based on the things that we see right? Could it be wrong? Of course, humans are wrong all the time, but we make baby steps every century by readjusting our theories.

Darwin admitted it is a theory.  And anything that doesn't agree with what the Bible says is wrong.  Real simple.

32 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

But as i mentioned to you earlier, i also believe that Eden was not a location on Earth and that the original Adam and Even bodies were not like ours now, meaning not flesh and blood. I think they were more like the Jesus's body. Because that's the only real and closest thing we humans have come to understand the miracles of God. The body of Jesus is.

What evidence do you have to support this theory?

32 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

I would die for God but i don't know if i'm "saved" or "be saved".

How much of the Bible to you accept?  This is what the apostle John said about it.

1 John 5:11  And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 13  I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Everyone can know whether they are saved or not.  No guessing necessary.

32 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

 

 

[Eli1]

@FreeGrace i hate repeating things i said to the previous person but in regards to How questions, that's why we ask right? We want to know and understand How God has created us.

Also, is there a salvation topic here? I'm sure there it, being a Protestant forum and all. Can you recommend me to one?

[other one]

1 hour ago, Eli1 said:

Could it be wrong? Of course, humans are wrong all the time, but we make baby steps every century by readjusting our theories. 

Well, that's what science is all about....   Well  it looks like it happened this way and way too many take it as some kind of a law.   And it sticks until  someone shows it's wrong.

 

 

How about God made this big ball of animals.....    pinch off a piece and change a few thousand genes and you got a horse.   Pinch off another piece and change some  DNA and you have a  cow.    On and ON.    He was kind of in a hurry that day you know.