The Jewish Jesus

[Starise]

I don't know why this is an obstacle to Christianity for some people, because if Jesus had been Greek or Italian, He would have still been some nationality.

The significance is in His lineage, so it isn't as if He suddenly popped on the scene with no background, There were many preparations to the Lord arriving here on earth. coming in the form of prophecy which aligned with His arrival. This further verified His claims.

That some seem to see inconsistencies  in the fabric of the bible would have the effect of eroding the main message of it. For this reason I think it's important to rebut these supposed inconsistencies and straighten out the myths that circulate today. 

[Mr. M]

8 minutes ago, Starise said:

The significance is in His lineage

Romans 1:

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,

which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,

according to the spirit of holiness,

by the resurrection from the dead:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship,

for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ

[FJK]

8 minutes ago, Starise said:

For this reason I think it's important to rebut these supposed inconsistencies and straighten out the myths that circulate today. 

So, for a discussion point, pick one of the myths you see being circulated and how to straighten it out (emphasis on the "how to" part).

I find that many people would rather believe a myth than seek out the truth and replace it with it in their thinking.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

I don't know why this is an obstacle to Christianity for some people, because if Jesus had been Greek or Italian, He would have still been some nationality.

The significance is in His lineage, so it isn't as if He suddenly popped on the scene with no background, There were many preparations to the Lord arriving here on earth. coming in the form of prophecy which aligned with His arrival. This further verified His claims.

That some seem to see inconsistencies  in the fabric of the bible would have the effect of eroding the main message of it. For this reason I think it's important to rebut these supposed inconsistencies and straighten out the myths that circulate today. 

Specifically, what inconsistencies and myths are you referring to to straighten out?

[Starise]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Specifically, what inconsistencies and myths are you referring to to straighten out?

-The God of the OT .vs the God of the NT. To be clear Jesus has a different personality than Yahweh as is evidenced in Jesus saying, “ Not my will but your will”

-Supposed inconsistencies in Mosaic law conflicting with “ love you neighbor as yourself.” Beating slaves, if a woman is raped she has to marry her rapist. I have worked though much of this.

More to come.

[Mr. M]

4 minutes ago, Starise said:

More to come.

More to come?

I would like to see any support from the Bible

to define a Lord with a "different personality".

The Judgments that governed the relations between men

does not express the relationship between

the Lord and those who love Him.

Psalm 17:

7 Show Your marvelous lovingkindness by Your right hand,
O You who save those who trust in You
From those who rise up against them.
8 Keep me as the apple of Your eye;
Hide me under the shadow of Your wings,

Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets

and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather

your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings,

but you were not willing!

 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

I don't know why this is an obstacle to Christianity for some people, because if Jesus had been Greek or Italian, He would have still been some nationality.

The significance is in His lineage, so it isn't as if He suddenly popped on the scene with no background, There were many preparations to the Lord arriving here on earth. coming in the form of prophecy which aligned with His arrival. This further verified His claims.

That some seem to see inconsistencies  in the fabric of the bible would have the effect of eroding the main message of it. For this reason I think it's important to rebut these supposed inconsistencies and straighten out the myths that circulate today. 

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that Christians today either don't care or don't know that Jesus is Jewish? I've never personally met anyone who disputed this fact.

[angels4u]

4 hours ago, Starise said:

I don't know why this is an obstacle to Christianity for some people, because if Jesus had been Greek or Italian, He would have still been some nationality.

The significance is in His lineage, so it isn't as if He suddenly popped on the scene with no background, There were many preparations to the Lord arriving here on earth. coming in the form of prophecy which aligned with His arrival. This further verified His claims.

That some seem to see inconsistencies  in the fabric of the bible would have the effect of eroding the main message of it. For this reason I think it's important to rebut these supposed inconsistencies and straighten out the myths that circulate today. 

Quote

That some seem to see inconsistencies  in the fabric of the bible would have the effect of eroding the main message of i

The answer is a little long but lots of information who Jesus is ,I don't see any inconstancy,you?

Why Did Jesus, as God, Become a Human Being?

The great truth revealed in the New Testament is that the eternal God became one of us; He became a human being.

And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth (John 1:14).

The Apostle Paul echoes John's thoughts:

Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant, and coming in the likeness of humanity (Philippians 2:6,7).

The Incarnation Of Jesus Christ

God became a human in Jesus Christ. This is known as the "incarnation." Incarnation is from the Latin meaning "in flesh." Although it is not a biblical word it presents a biblical truth. Jesus is the eternal God who became flesh and blood. Jesus became a man at a point in time in history. He did so without giving up His oneness with God. He became a human being without a sin nature. "In flesh" means more than Jesus had a physical body - He was a complete human personality.

Jesus Took On A New Nature

By the incarnation we do not mean that God was turned into a human or that Jesus ceased to be God while he was a man. The incarnation means that while remaining God, Jesus took upon a new nature - a human nature. The incarnation was the uniting the divine and the human into one being, one person. Jesus Christ was fully God and fully human.

Jesus Laid Aside His Heavenly Glory

In becoming a human being Jesus laid aside His heavenly glory to live among us. The question is, why did He do it? The Scriptures give us several reasons why Jesus came to earth.

1. He Wanted To Further Reveal God To Humanity

The first and foremost reason was to give a further revelation of God to humanity. If you wish to know what God is like you need go no further than to look at Jesus. The Bible says.

No one has ever seen God, but God the one and only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known (John 1:18).

This verse teaches that Jesus explained God to humanity. We need no longer wonder what God is like; Jesus shows us. Jesus Himself said.

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'"(John 14:9).

Jesus Did This By Both Words And Deeds

Jesus claimed that God guided both his words and deeds.

Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these" (John 5:19,20).

Jesus said.

But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father (John 10:38).

Jesus' work of reaching out to the vilest of sinners revealed the heart of God the Father. Those who criticized his work among the worst sinners revealed their lack of understanding with God's desires.

The Old Testament Revelation Is Incomplete

While God revealed Himself to humankind in the Old Testament the revelation was incomplete. There were a number of things that waited till God Himself came to earth in the Person of Jesus Christ. Thus Jesus revealed God to humanity in a personal way.

2. Jesus Came To Fulfill God's Promises To Certain People

God made a number of promises to people like Adam, Noah, Abraham, and David.

Adam

To Adam He was the promised Messiah - the seed of the woman

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise him on the heel (Genesis 3:15).

Abraham

To Abraham Jesus was his one descendant who would bless the world.

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you (Genesis 12:3).

David

To David Jesus was the promised King that would come from His family.

When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom (2 Samuel 7:12).

The coming of Jesus fulfilled this promise. The angel said to Mary.

You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end (Luke 1:31-33).

Jesus Came To Bring Salvation To All Humanity

The covenants He made with them promised salvation for both Israel and the Gentiles. With the coming of Jesus to the world, these promises were fulfilled.

For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers, and for the Gentiles to glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, "Therefore I will give praise to you among the Gentiles, and I will sing to your name" (Romans 15:8,9).

3. Jesus Came To Fulfill The Law Of Moses

Jesus also came to fulfill the Law of Moses. Jesus said.

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:17,18).

By living a perfect life here upon the earth Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law in every respect.

4. Jesus Came To Die For The Sins Of The World

When sin entered the world God instituted the concept of substitutionary sacrifice where God required the sacrifice to die. However the sacrifices of animals could not take away sin. Neither would the death of an ordinary human being be satisfactory to take away sin. What was needed was the perfect sacrifice. This was accomplished with God becoming a human being. Christ's coming was to die on the cross for the sins of the world. When Christ came He sacrificed Himself on Calvary's cross. Jesus Himself testified.

Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many (Matthew 20:28).

His death on the cross has paid the penalty for ours sins. He died in our place so that we do not have to suffer eternally for our misdeeds.

The Bible says.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the ministry of reconciliation . . . he made him sin for us that we may be made the righteousness of God in him (2 Corinthians 5:19,21).

Jesus Christ came into the world to become humanity's Savior. Without His coming humanity would not have a Savior.

5.Jesus Came To Bring In A New Covenant

Jesus not only fulfilled the promises of the old covenant, His coming brought a new covenant into existence.

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matthew 26:26-28).

6. Jesus Came To Destroy The Works Of The Devil

His coming also was to destroy the works of the devil and the hold he has had over humanity.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8).

Jesus' death on the cross frees us from the power of sin. The devil no longer has any right to control us because Christ has given us the freedom to choose not to sin.

7. Jesus Came To Judge The World Righteously

Jesus came to be a righteous judge of humanity. Scripture says that it is He who will judge the world.

Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son (John 5:22).

Jesus also said.

And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man (John 5:27).

He is qualified to judge humanity because He became a human being. Since He has lived as a human being His judgment will always be righteous and fair.

8. Jesus Came To Sympathize With Believers As The Great High Priest

Because Jesus, the God-man, lived here upon the earth and experienced the limitations of being a human being, He is able to sympathize with the problems and concerns that humans face. The Bible says.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are - yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need (Hebrews 4:14-16).

9. Jesus Came To Be An Example For Believers

Jesus also came to provide an example for the believer on how to live one's life. When a person puts his faith in Christ he has an example to follow. Jesus lived the perfect life as the perfect man with faith in His Father. Hence we are told, "to walk just as He walked" (1 John 2:6). Peter said.

To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps (1 Peter 2:21).

Jesus Christ provides the pattern of how believers should live.

10. Jesus Came To Prepare Humanity For A Heavenly Destiny

Finally, Jesus came to earth to prepare humanity for their heavenly destiny. The Son of God became a human so that human beings could eventually be fitted with a new nature - a perfect one. One day we shall be like him.

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is (1 John 3:2).

We shall have a body like his.

Who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body (Philippians 3:21).

Believers who have borne the image of the earthly man Adam will also bear the image of the heavenly man - Jesus. Paul wrote.

The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven (1 Corinthians 15:47,48).

The thing that hindered this from happening was sin.

Summary

The incarnation means that the eternal God became a human being. When the Bible speaks about Jesus coming in the flesh it means that He had a complete, sinless human nature.

The coming of Jesus Christ into the world was for the following reasons. Jesus came to provide a further revelation of God. The Old Testament was incomplete and the coming of Christ completed God's revelation. Jesus also came to fulfill promises to individuals. The Old Testament records promises made to a number of individuals that were fulfilled in Jesus. Jesus also came to fulfill the Law of Moses - He perfectly kept the commandments of the Law. Jesus also came to be the sacrifice for the sins of the world. Because He lived a sinless life He could sacrifice Himself. The coming of Christ not only fulfilled the old covenant, it also brought a new covenant into affect. Christ's coming was also to destroy the works of the devil. Christ also became an example for believers. His perfect life sets the standard. Finally, Jesus coming has prepared the way for believers to receive their new body - one without sin.https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_806.cfm

[Sower]

 

            "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever"        
                                             Hebrews 13:8
                                                                     

[Starise]

2 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that Christians today either don't care or don't know that Jesus is Jewish? I've never personally met anyone who disputed this fact.

Sorry guys, I was pecking some of this out on a phone and had to be somewhere, and didn't really get to complete it. The initial post should have had sharper edges.

To be clear what I'm trying to accomplish in this post is not to cast doubt on the bible, but clarify what some think are inconsistencies. To be honest, this side of heaven some questions may not be answered to our satisfaction, additionally, we all have opinions of the unclear stuff and may not come to agreement on all of it

The subject of the trinity is particularly interesting territory since most will look at a thing with a state whatever that is and determine it can't be in two states while still being in one state. In logic an "and" gate cannot be an "or" gate, although we can have "nor" gates. I understand in the spiritual realm it isn't exactly the same as digital logic, but often times this is how minds think.

@TrueFollowerOfChrist this thread is for seekers who wonder why the Jews seem to be preferred in Christianity. It's a legit question. Noone disputes that Jesus was Jewish to my knowledge. Christians generally accept that Jesus came through the Jews, and this sometimes looks like preferential treatment to the unbelievers. I see the Jews as the providential conduit for Jesus. I am not questioning any of this myself, since I accept it, only putting out there what is going around as a reason not to look deeper at Christianity for some.

 Jesus had to come to save the world, so how important was race really? Israel certainly figures into this. The way I see it- race is only important if we make it important.Otherwise accept that this is how He came. Ironically those who should be the most proud of having the savior come through their race are often the least appreciative since they generally rejected Him as the messiah, so the situation is a little odd. Savior of the world makes a race to come through and they reject Him. Not only that, they were to be the first converted ones to carry His ways to the world. Instead He ended up punishing them for disobedience and turning to the Gentiles. Our pastor today said God never has a plan B, so He apparently anticipated the rebellion and had the Gentiles in place.

In the end, it's all going to work out because they will see the error of their ways and come back. How would you answer someone who thinks God put a lot more interest in Israel than anyone else? 

2 hours ago, Mr. M said:

More to come?

I would like to see any support from the Bible

to define a Lord with a "different personality".

The Judgments that governed the relations between men

does not express the relationship between

the Lord and those who love Him.

Jesus was seperate from the Father. The father was never crucified. Jesus said, "Not my will but your will be done" when He prayed before He was crucified. Maybe you wouldn't call that a different personality. I would at minimum, call it a difference because you don't ask yourself if it's your will to do something, so I see unity but distinction. Jesus said He always does the will of His Father, so it's really moot , other than to say there is a distinction, but not a disagreeable distinction.

5 hours ago, FJK said:

So, for a discussion point, pick one of the myths you see being circulated and how to straighten it out (emphasis on the "how to" part).

I find that many people would rather believe a myth than seek out the truth and replace it with it in their thinking.

 

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Specifically, what inconsistencies and myths are you referring to to straighten out?

I hear you both . There are many things people will pick to take shots at mostly to justify not following Jesus, but let's just say the person really thinks this will make a difference between them becoming a Christian or not. In some cases, it would be like me saying, I don't understand the ingredients in a box of cereal, so I won't eat it until I am satisifed with what's in it. Most have never had any intention to eat the cereal in the first place and are just pulling at whatever fodder they can find. In their minds, they have made such a large case against God, that nothing will sway them.

This leads to bigger problems with this rationale because if  the edges of the stories are all ragged, why examine the nucleus? 

Lets look at a few of these deal breakers. Cosmology, evolution to name a few. The earth should never have had water on it at that stage of creation ( in the very beginning ) because you need stars to have water. Closer examination shows there were stars, but they will try to say it could not have worked which topples the rest of the bible for them. If you can't get Genesis right, why bother with the rest?

The bible clearly says God made us in HIs own image. Some will argue that image is a spiritual image mainly the TE people, which they think allows them to say we really came directly from apes. Yes there is a spiritual aspect to us with creative and thinking abilities.I can't see that myself. Doesn't add up logically with the creation accounts. Somehow they have to get from ape to creation and they think this is something that fits for them. The problem is others will look at it and conclude we were never created at all. Especially when this is the narrative being pushed in higher education, All of these "rough edge" arguments are designed to keep people from the core.

I'll pick yet another recently one posed to me. That would be some of the seemingly odd things in the mosaic laws in Exodus and Deuteronomy. Passages seemingly that make it ok to beat and rape people- 

16 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. 17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

In another version the word seduce is replaced with rape. Big difference between the two terms leading me to believe some of it may be translational issues.

Deuteronomy 22:28

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

The argument is there are no rights for the poor woman involved. In the first example the rapist can make things right with 50 shekels. I believe we are missing something in the cuture and text. If true it doesn't seem women were treated well. If the mosaic law was handed down by God Himself, that's reason enough for some to stop reading the bible.

Slaves-

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

So it's ok to beat people as long as they are slaves and as long as they can get up after two days.

How does any of this mesh with " Love your neighbor as yourself"?

Counter argument- Culture was different and slavery was accepted, this still does not reflect "love your neighbor".

In Matthew 8:5-6 we have an account of a slave who was highly regarded by his Roman master.

And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him, and saying, “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented.” Matthew 8:5-6 (NASB)

We don't know how the servant was paralyzed so I don't think we can assume is was due to a beating. I believe it shows that slaves had important human value, but it doesn't eliminate the beating laws in the Mosaic law.

It's a real conundrum to western sensitivities and minds.  Yes, we are no longer under mosaic law, however if God never changes, why are these laws on the books? 

Honestly I want to be upset that this is in the text at all because it's a big rock to crawl out from under. It would be much less severe and even explain many things if these laws were not atributed to God but to men which makes a lot more sense. TBH they look more like laws men would make.