"Hell" Etymology & Thoughts

[Vine Abider]

It's interesting how we as Christians use words that aren't actually in the bible . . . some I think are useful and some I think are not.  And while the King James bible translation was remarkable, certain Old English words were substituted like "church" (a pet peeve of mine) and "hell" which I don't think are very good translations.  Yet we continue to use these words today, 400 years later.

The word hell is not actually found in the bible, but is rather substituted in the KJV for these words: 

Sheol: used in 65 times in OT - considered the place or state of all the dead

Hades:  used 11 times in NT - same basic meaning as Sheol (literally means "not to see")

Tartaurus: used 1 time in NT - is stated only as applying to fallen angels

Gehenna*: used 12 times in NT - an actual place of burning trash and condemned people's corpses . . . a valley near Jerusalem.  THIS IS THE TERM THAT MOST CLOSELY RESEMBLES "HELL" IN MODERN THEOLOGY.

* Gehenna, of these four words, is the term that most closely conveys eternal, conscious torment.  Yet it is only used 11 times in three gospels (Mathew, Mark & Luke) and once, metaphorically in James 3:6.  (If this is such an important doctrinal concept of the New Testament, why does Paul, Peter and John not mention it in any of their writings?) 

Where did the word "hell" actually come from, if it is not a biblical word?  It actually is derived from old German and Norse mythology from around the 6th or 7th century BC.  It referred to a place of torment for the dead and had a goddess over it by the same name. But "hell" also had they meaning of "concealing - to cover over," which also typified the dead being buried.  And it appears that eventually, the Catholic Church used imagery from Dante's Inferno (14th century) to convey much of how we in modern times think of this place.

Therefore it seems by using the term "hell" we are not being very accurate to scripture.  First of all, it doesn't appear in the Bible.  Secondly, it appears that is may have been derived from pagan mythology.  And thirdly, the traditional idea of hell most closely resembles Gehenna, which was an actual place near Jerusalem, but this word is only used in limited places in the New Testament. 

So I am reevaluating my use of this word . . . your thoughts?

Some interesting resources I found

Paper about the words translated as hell: https://wrongabouthell.com/Words Translated As Hell.pdf

 An article - "What the Hell: Finding Out “Hell” Isn’t in the Bible" - https://medium.com/christianish/what-the-hell-finding-out-hell-isnt-in-the-bible-7028acb3ecee

 

[Jayne]

Is your objection to the word or the place?

[Vine Abider]

2 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Is your objection to the word or the place?

The word.  It doesn't seem like a good foundation to use a word like that to base a belief on or have a conversation around . . . like how to respond when someone askes, "Do you believe in hell?"

(It's like when they substituted the word "church" for ekklesia, which is actually better and more simply rendered as "gathering" or "assembly."  Then people start to get various ideas what that really means.)

[Neighbor]

Hi, Well if making a presentation to a person do you use their language or yours?  How  edifying to  the hearer is it to use language not familiar to the hearer?

 

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, Well if making a presentation to a person do you use their language or yours?  How  edifying to  the hearer is it to use language not familiar to the hearer?

 

Yeah, I get that.  But I also think there's nothing wrong with saying there's no such word specifically in the bible and that many of the concepts surrounding hell appear to be at least somewhat embellished. 

As said, Gehenna appears to be the one word actually used (12 times) in the NT that aligns most closely with the modern concept of hell, and was an actual place.  Here are the 11 instances where Jesus spoke of Gehenna (only one other usage of it was in James 3:6, used as a metaphor):  (from Wikipedia)

• Matthew 5:22: "....whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into Gehenna."
• Matthew 5:29: "....it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into Gehenna."
• Matthew 5:30: "....better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into Gehenna."
• Matthew 10:28  "....rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul [Greek: ψυχή] and body in Gehenna."
• Matthew 18:9 "It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than with two eyes to be thrown into the Gehenna...."
• Matthew 23:15: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you... make one proselyte...twice as much a child of Gehenna as yourselves."
• Matthew 23:33, to the Pharisees: "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of Gehenna?"
• Mark 9:43 "It is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two hands, to go into Gehenna into the unquenchable fire."
• Mark 9:45: "It is better for you to enter life lame, than having your two feet, to be cast into Gehenna."
• Mark 9:47: "It is better for you to enter the Kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into Gehenna."
• Luke 12:5 "....fear the One who, after He has killed has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear Him."

So it is certainly a place one doesn't want to go.  But I still find it curious that it doesn't get mentioned by Paul, Peter of John - what do you make of that?

[FJK]

@Vine Abider, what do you think exists after death, where does the soul in your thinking, your soul and my soul and the unbelievers soul, go?

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

But I also think there's nothing wrong with saying there's no such word specifically in the bible and that many of the concepts surrounding hell appear to be at least somewhat embellished. 

Hi, Is there such a name as Jesus in the Bible? Would Yeshua have answered if addressed by the name Jesus? Yet we use Jesus and it is printed in English language Bibles. I don't know of an English language Bible using Yeshua as the proper name of our lord and savior.

I find I can't get too  cranked up about  specific words used in  English that represent perhaps more correctly descriptive words used in other languages.

I use Yeshua and Jesus interchangeably. So Hell and Gehenna, either is good enough for my own use. Trinity, triune God,  rapture, tribulation types and times all are subject to question which is okay by me as it often leads me to further study of the Bible, which I study in English, American English.  And that alone causes limitation of it's own kind.

[Vine Abider]

59 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, Is there such a name as Jesus in the Bible? Would Yeshua have answered if addressed by the name Jesus? Yet we use Jesus and it is printed in English language Bibles. I don't know of an English language Bible using Yeshua as the proper name of our lord and savior.

I find I can't get too  cranked up about  specific words used in  English that represent perhaps more correctly descriptive words used in other languages.

I use Yeshua and Jesus interchangeably. So Hell and Gehenna, either is good enough for my own use. Trinity, triune God,  rapture, tribulation types and times all are subject to question which is okay by me as it often leads me to further study of the Bible, which I study in English, American English.  And that alone causes limitation of it's own kind.

Well, one can trace how Jesus is transliterated (Yeshua/Joshua/Jesus), so close enough.  I just wonder about words like "hell" and "church," which were outright substitutions.  And, admittedly, in most conversation I tend to use both church and hell, except sometimes around saints who know better.

I've had the most discussion of this kind around "church."  But in the end, it's probably just a preference not to get too hung up about. Yet words do mean things (as my wife often says) . . .

And sometimes when a nonbeliever asks about hell, often it's in a scornful way, such as "Do you really believe in a place called "hell"!?  I think a thoughtful reply, that they might appreciate, is something like, "Well that's an interesting subject and it sounds like you may have given some thought to it. The word "hell" itself is not actually found in the Bible, but the KJV substituted that word for certain other words concerning the afterlife.  And there are many misconceptions about hell and the afterlife.  However, from my reading of the Bible I can tell you that two things are sure:  One, there is an existence after this physical life; and two, those who haven't accepted Christ can wind-up in a very undesirable place, to be sure!"

If they wanted to know more, we could look at those verses Jesus spoke of regarding Gehenna and also ones regarding the lake of fire (which some believe are not synonymous with each other).

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, FJK said:

@Vine Abider, what do you think exists after death, where does the soul in your thinking, your soul and my soul and the unbelievers soul, go?

As for believers, Paul says in 2 Cor 5:8 and Phil 1:23 that when we leave this body, we will be with the Lord. So if He resides in heaven, that is where we'll be, until the Judgement (bema) Seat of Christ and then to the kingdom here on earth. (with the ultimate destination to be with God in the earthly new Jerusalem)

As for unbelievers, it seems they will go to hades/sheol, while they await judgement at the great white throne.  After judgement (and unless there is some intervention by God allowing repentance) all unrepentant souls appear to go into the lake of fire.

What are your thoughts on this?

[itty-bitty lamb]

48 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

And sometimes when a nonbeliever asks about hell, often it's in a scornful way, such as "Do you really believe in a place called "hell"!?  I think a thoughtful reply, that they might appreciate, is something like, "Well that's an interesting subject and it sounds like you may have given some thought to it. The word "hell" itself is not actually found in the Bible, but the KJV substituted that word for certain other words concerning the afterlife.  And there are many misconceptions about hell and the afterlife.  However, from my reading of the Bible I can tell you that two things are sure:  One, there is an existence after this physical life; and two, those who haven't accepted Christ can wind-up in a very undesirable place, to be sure!"

If they wanted to know more, we could look at those verses Jesus spoke of regarding Gehenna and also ones regarding the lake of fire (which some believe are not synonymous with each other).

i see what you are saying. It is very fascinating to discover and learn how words have been substituted over time in various translations. Most of the time, i've found when this has happened, some of the meaning of a word, intention, or definition across languages become lost.

Just wanted to comment on this plausible interaction with a nonbeliever though, that i feel we should be mindful to meet someone intellectually where they are coming from. A lot of people in my southern parts use the word hell all the time. The knit and grit of the bible may not be a great starting point for someone trying to come to terms with the existence of a nightmare in the afterlife. On the other hand, i know of an unsaved friend of mine who loves discussions like these, and anything to get his mind on God and thinking about Jesus is a win in my book. So yes, a very interesting tid bit here, for a selective group of nonbelievers, i would feel. Just not for everyone!