The Millennium.

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, NConly said:

Others will be more qualified to answer your question than I am, Im sure. I have thought of this too and just adding my 2 cents. Humans will still be on a 24 hour clock imo. It depends of if Jesus is in a human body or not. The world will still be day on one side whole night on the other side of earth. If Jesus is not in human body He may not need sleep as humans do. I will probably get blasted for my comments they are not solid in my beliefs just thoughts,

We are curious and inquisitive beings; I think it natural for Christians to ask these questions. The secular world searches for knowledge and produces philosophy and lies. I think many ponder those questions and many more. I would like to know the answers to these exciting questions, but we are not specifically told in the Bible.

I suspect time was created for our benefit and a division to do things and know where we are on a linear scale. Plant, sow, harvest, worship, observe, Sabbath, sleep, etc. As we learn, time is measured by solar or lunar and must be adjusted every so often.

A time to do, plan, and prepare is associated with the predictable tilt of the Earth’s axis, which makes weather and seasons, and drives ocean currents. The size and position of the moon (as well as the sun) are critical in sustaining life on this planet as we know it.

The angels and heavenly hosts are on the time clock, in time (i.e., Sodom & Gomorrah). The word time is in 563 Biblical passages, and the first mention is:

And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. (Genesis 4:3)

Time is a creation of God. In our secular physics, it is interesting to contemplate which came first: time, space, or matter. A reasonable assumption would be that they had to be spoken into existence simultaneously. You need a space to place matter and a time to do it.

And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: (Daniel 2:21)

While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. (Genesis 8:22)

Are the above two verses referring to the Earth we now occupy, the new Earth, or both? God made a land grant covenant with Abraham and his seed forever. That would include the new Earth and eternity, I presume.

To my understanding, the Earth and universe will be cleansed and remade by a fervent heat. If time were erased, that would delete all of history and promote chaos as I view it.

I believe the following speaks to after the universal cleansing of sin, the new Earth, and entering eternity:

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. (Revelation 21:23) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 22:5) [emphasis added]

I think the above speaks to the city, the new Jerusalem; what about outside of there and the rest of the planet?

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 65:25) [emphasis added]

The above also appears to be localized to God’s holy mountain. Like what the Garden of Eden was to the district of Eden proper, a small section of the planet. If there were no sun, moon, or stars to give light to the rest of the earth, complete darkness would reign and rule.

How will we experience time in our glorified bodies in eternity? How do the angels and heavenly hosts experience time right now? What does it feel like? I haven’t a clue.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

Overall, I think you did a very good job of explaining the millennium. 

Now I have just highlighted a certain part that you may want to look into more. When the Body of Christ is caught up to heaven, then that purpose is complete. The Lord is then addressing people receiving the good news of His coming reign (kingdom) through Israel. That is to be preached in all the world and then the end (of that period) finishes.

The judging of the `sheep and goat` nations is based on whether they looked after the Lord`s brethren, the Jews in the tribulation. (much as in WW 2) (Matt. 25: 40   Joel 3: 2)

People don`t have the Lord as their `personal Saviour` as we do but receive Him as their King. (Zech. 14: 16 & 17) They are of the nations and they need to obey the King.

(They are not in a Body, the Body of Christ, with Him as their Head.)

I agree with you. I think we are just approaching our thoughts from different angles.

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (Revelation 4:1) [emphasis added]

After what? After Jesus speaks about the church in the previous two chapters, the church's history is written in advance. The church is mentioned nineteen times in the first three chapters and not again until the end of Revelation. It is my view Revelation 4:1 is symbolic the harpazo is in view.

The narrative abruptly switches to dealing with Israel and the earth-dwellers left behind, IMO. The Gospel of Grace is not preached again, but, the kingdom of God is.

I also agree the age of Grace (Pentecost) is over at the Rapture. After the harpazo, I do not see the Holy Spirit indwelling anyone. I think the verse below is the Holy Spirit (embodied by the believing church), the Restrainer who is presently restraining how evil things are going to get.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (2 Thessalonians 2:7)

[Marilyn C]

25 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I agree with you. I think we are just approaching our thoughts from different angles.

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (Revelation 4:1) [emphasis added]

After what? After Jesus speaks about the church in the previous two chapters, the church's history is written in advance. The church is mentioned nineteen times in the first three chapters and not again until the end of Revelation. It is my view Revelation 4:1 is symbolic the harpazo is in view.

The narrative abruptly switches to dealing with Israel and the earth-dwellers left behind, IMO. The Gospel of Grace is not preached again, but, the kingdom of God is.

I also agree the age of Grace (Pentecost) is over at the Rapture. After the harpazo, I do not see the Holy Spirit indwelling anyone. I think the verse below is the Holy Spirit (embodied by the believing church), the Restrainer who is presently restraining how evil things are going to get.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (2 Thessalonians 2:7)

So good when brethren dwell together in unity (& agree on the truths). So good there bro.

Now just a wee note. The 24 elders are representative of the Body of Christ, (having crowns etc) and there would be more than 24 out of all the nations, thus representative. (Rev. 5: 8 & 9)

We read of them in heaven throughout the trib. (Rev. 5: 8 - 11,  14,      11: 16,     14: 3,   19: 4, )

[NConly]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

We are curious and inquisitive beings; I think it natural for Christians to ask these questions. The secular world searches for knowledge and produces philosophy and lies. I think many ponder those questions and many more. I would like to know the answers to these exciting questions, but we are not specifically told in the Bible.

I suspect time was created for our benefit and a division to do things and know where we are on a linear scale. Plant, sow, harvest, worship, observe, Sabbath, sleep, etc. As we learn, time is measured by solar or lunar and must be adjusted every so often.

A time to do, plan, and prepare is associated with the predictable tilt of the Earth’s axis, which makes weather and seasons, and drives ocean currents. The size and position of the moon (as well as the sun) are critical in sustaining life on this planet as we know it.

The angels and heavenly hosts are on the time clock, in time (i.e., Sodom & Gomorrah). The word time is in 563 Biblical passages, and the first mention is:

And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. (Genesis 4:3)

Time is a creation of God. In our secular physics, it is interesting to contemplate which came first: time, space, or matter. A reasonable assumption would be that they had to be spoken into existence simultaneously. You need a space to place matter and a time to do it.

And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: (Daniel 2:21)

While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. (Genesis 8:22)

Are the above two verses referring to the Earth we now occupy, the new Earth, or both? God made a land grant covenant with Abraham and his seed forever. That would include the new Earth and eternity, I presume.

To my understanding, the Earth and universe will be cleansed and remade by a fervent heat. If time were erased, that would delete all of history and promote chaos as I view it.

I believe the following speaks to after the universal cleansing of sin, the new Earth, and entering eternity:

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. (Revelation 21:23) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 22:5) [emphasis added]

I think the above speaks to the city, the new Jerusalem; what about outside of there and the rest of the planet?

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 65:25) [emphasis added]

The above also appears to be localized to God’s holy mountain. Like what the Garden of Eden was to the district of Eden proper, a small section of the planet. If there were no sun, moon, or stars to give light to the rest of the earth, complete darkness would reign and rule.

How will we experience time in our glorified bodies in eternity? How do the angels and heavenly hosts experience time right now? What does it feel like? I haven’t a clue.

I have thought on those things too. Without the sun and moon I do not think we will experience time anymore. And I think God will be able to make Light everywhere, so I do not see earth as having a day and night anymore. If all the animals are going to be herbivores they will not endanger humans if those on earth still have a human body. Also I am thinking whether in heaven or on earth we may have a bipedal body but wont be carnivores either. There wont be any hunting or fishing and probably no recollection of ever doing that either. I doubt we will have need of trains, boats, planes, or autos. Just my thoughts. 1 Corin 15:50 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. makes me think we will not be in a human body. maybe you can correct me here on my thoughts.

[Dennis1209]

48 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

So good when brethren dwell together in unity (& agree on the truths). So good there bro.

Now just a wee note. The 24 elders are representative of the Body of Christ, (having crowns etc) and there would be more than 24 out of all the nations, thus representative. (Rev. 5: 8 & 9)

We read of them in heaven throughout the trib. (Rev. 5: 8 - 11,  14,      11: 16,     14: 3,   19: 4, )

We are getting into a habit of agreeing, LOL.

Yes, angels and the heavenly host are never mentioned as receiving crowns and rewards, ruling and reigning, only people.

I genuinely believe the twelve gates of the new Jerusalem represent the twelve tribes of Israel (the OT saints). Likewise, the twelve foundations are the apostles (NT saints).

[Dennis1209]

32 minutes ago, NConly said:

I have thought on those things too. Without the sun and moon I do not think we will experience time anymore. And I think God will be able to make Light everywhere, so I do not see earth as having a day and night anymore. If all the animals are going to be herbivores they will not endanger humans if those on earth still have a human body. Also I am thinking whether in heaven or on earth we may have a bipedal body but wont be carnivores either. There wont be any hunting or fishing and probably no recollection of ever doing that either. I doubt we will have need of trains, boats, planes, or autos. Just my thoughts. 1 Corin 15:50 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. makes me think we will not be in a human body. maybe you can correct me here on my thoughts.

Well, you just destroyed my thoughts on steak dinners with all the trimmings 

There will be animal sacrifice by the Jews in the millennium. Jesus and the two angels ate flesh with Abraham:

And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. (Genesis 18:8)

The food of angels is manna, but we know they can and have eaten other things. Eating seems more of a pleasure than a necessity at the wedding feast. Having a glorified body like Jesus, I am unsure if nutrition is required to sustain our bodies.

What do you think?

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

We are getting into a habit of agreeing, LOL.

Yes, angels and the heavenly host are never mentioned as receiving crowns and rewards, ruling and reigning, only people.

I genuinely believe the twelve gates of the new Jerusalem represent the twelve tribes of Israel (the OT saints). Likewise, the twelve foundations are the apostles (NT saints).

I agree re the angels not receiving crowns.

Now I see the 12 Apostles ruling over the 12 tribes of Israel as you do. (Matt. Matt. 19: 28) 

However, the Body of Christ (NT saints) have been promised `something better,` a `great dominion.  (Gk.) ` (Heb. 11: 40)

And that is on the Lord`s own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21,  4: 2- 4) 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, NConly said:

I have thought on those things too. Without the sun and moon I do not think we will experience time anymore. And I think God will be able to make Light everywhere, so I do not see earth as having a day and night anymore. If all the animals are going to be herbivores they will not endanger humans if those on earth still have a human body. Also I am thinking whether in heaven or on earth we may have a bipedal body but wont be carnivores either. There wont be any hunting or fishing and probably no recollection of ever doing that either. I doubt we will have need of trains, boats, planes, or autos. Just my thoughts. 1 Corin 15:50 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. makes me think we will not be in a human body. maybe you can correct me here on my thoughts.

Hi NConly,

I agree that time will not be as we know it. There wont be civilization as we know it today which is so concerned with shelter, food and protection. 

As for people (the nations) on the new earth, they will have a (new) sun and a (new) moon, for they were made `good,` and are needed for seasons etc as God made them. They will have bodies like Adam and Eve before the fall. (Isa. 66: 23)

The New Jerusalem with the Old Testament saints will be in the universal realm and be the connection of the spiritual and physical realms. The glory of God will shine forth from it giving spiritual sustenance to those on the earth. They will have bodies suited to that realm.

Finally, those in the third heaven, (the angelic realm) will have glorified bodies like the Lord Jesus Christ. They will be able to go throughout all of God`s great kingdom as the Lord sends. I believe this earth is a prototype, and when the righteous rulership is in every realm then God will extend further into His great universe.

God is the creator and this isn`t the extent of His creativity, I believe. 

`Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end,...` (Isa. 9: 7)

 

[Gabriel80]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

People don`t have the Lord as their `personal Saviour` as we do but receive Him as their King. (Zech. 14: 16 & 17) They are of the nations and they need to obey the King.

(They are not in a Body, the Body of Christ, with Him as their Head.)

Marilyn, if I may-

Who are these "people" who dont have the Lord Jesus as their savior?

The 2nd generation of the population of the gentile nations in The Millennium?

 

Just making sure I understand.

 

Thank you.

Edited January 27, 2024 by Gabriel80

[Gabriel80]

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I also agree the age of Grace (Pentecost) is over at the Rapture. After the harpazo, I do not see the Holy Spirit indwelling anyone. I think the verse below is the Holy Spirit (embodied by the believing church), the Restrainer who is presently restraining how evil things are going to get.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (2 Thessalonians 2:7)

 

And a question for you, Dennis, if you would indulge me...

 

Regarding the indwelling of the Holy Spirit after the Rapture... I have heard this but I believe Jesus said he would be with us (in spirit) until the end?

Would a new believer during the Tribulation and Day of the Lord not have that surety?  If not... that would be tooooough to manage...I couldn't imagine.

 

Thank you.