"We accept Christ - then get a bunch of rules to follow"

[Vine Abider]

8 minutes ago, D. Adrien said:

I was  referencing Mat. 7:23 and the word lawlessness and how this word alluded to a law being broken.

I see. And the antichrist is called "the lawless one" in 2 Thess 2:8.

[farouk]

30 minutes ago, D. Adrien said:

I was  referencing Mat. 7:23 and the word lawlessness and how this word alluded to a law being broken.

@D. Adrien In the end it was the practice of the early believers in Acts to continue steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and in prayers. It seems to have been a matter of the heart to continue steadfastly in that way.

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, FJK said:

But when God created -actually formed- Man in his image with the ability to use logical thinking, did he create man as bound by it intending it as a directive for thinking or is there an overruling way to think he gave him that stands above logic?

This is not a lighthearted question to consider.  It's something I've pondered at length.

My answer to your question would have to be "no". I can't speak definitively as i am not privy to my neighbors thinking, but from the results of narratives in scripture I would have to say that man is strong in singleness of logic. But if he is honest he knows that there could be duality and/or triality even if it is foreign to his make up. You and I both probably agree on a Triune God but neither understands it.

However much I would like my intellect to up to God's standard, I am comforted and encouraged that my God is far superior to me. After all, worshiping your equal doesn't seem appropriate.

[Tristen]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:32 PM, Vine Abider said:

In my Tuesday men's fellowship, a brother said this.  So is this what the Christian life is about?

This happens quite a bit - we crush the faith of spiritual children with legalism. We invite outsiders into the fellowship of Christ; telling them God loves and accepts them as they are, that is, until they are saved - and we start pointing out their flaws and telling them how God is disappointed with them if they don't live up to this perfect picture of a Christian.

I am reminded of the U2 lyric: "You ask me to enter, but then you make me crawl".

We should, of course, be uncompromising concerning the truth of sin. Nevertheless, our response to sin should be to encourage the sinner to God's grace and restoration - rather than crushing their resolve through legalism.

2 Corinthians 3:6
... for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Tristen]

On 2/1/2024 at 11:26 PM, FJK said:

We only had one rule to follow in the Garden of Eden, and we ignored it. 

You can see the result to this day, so maybe those rules are a good thing to follow and a bad thing to ignore.

There just may be a purpose for them that is beyond our immediate understanding.

Another way to interpret the garden of Eden incident (and the subsequent failure of Law to perfect our actions) is that "rules" don't work to perfect us. We need something deeper and more abiding than a list of "rules" to follow.

We need the indwelling Holy Spirit working out His fruit of righteousness through us. In this we have rest - as this removes the constant pressure of trying to live under the ever-present condemnation of a list of rules.

[FJK]

9 hours ago, Tristen said:

We need the indwelling Holy Spirit working out His fruit of righteousness through us. In this we have rest - as this removes the constant pressure of trying to live under the ever-present condemnation of a list of rules.

I fully agree with that, the guidance of Holy Spirit being essential above all else, but I also know that the way I know the guidance of the Holy Spirit is actually from the Holy Spirit and not my own worldly desire sneaking it and deceiving me, or even an unholy spirit in disguise tricking me is to compare what I and told by it and where it is leading me to the rules of the Bible so that I know it is in accord with God's Word.

I struggle with this.  Maybe other people don't have the same problem with constant temptation disguising itself as Godly inspiration when it isn't, but I do.  Maybe that's just my lot in life, maybe not, but that is the way it is for me.

[Tristen]

13 minutes ago, FJK said:

I also know that the way I know the guidance of the Holy Spirit is actually from the Holy Spirit and not my own worldly desire sneaking it and deceiving me, or even an unholy spirit in disguise tricking me is to compare what I and told by it and where it is leading me to the rules of the Bible so that I know it is in accord with God's Word.

I struggle with this.  Maybe other people don't have the same problem with constant temptation disguising itself as Godly inspiration when it isn't, but I do.  Maybe that's just my lot in life, maybe not, but that is the way it is for me.

I think His rest comes through knowing that I don't have to figure all this out.

If I sin, the Spirit convicts me, and I notice a depletion of my peace. If I do well, I walk in my Lord's peace and liberty (as He promised). If I am deceived, there is nothing I can do in my own efforts - except to trust that God will open my eyes where needed. If I forget how to behave, I need the Holy Spirit to remind me.

There is an element of deception in the "struggle" - i.e. that we could ever do anything right apart from His grace. Therefore, all we can do is collapse ourselves entirely on His grace - trusting in His goodness (resting in His arms). Easier said than done sometimes - as I am acutely aware - given that I am one who also needs frequent re-reminding of this.

 

 

[Neighbor]

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

I suggest that God is a God  with order he is not the God of free  wheeling spirits. He has rules, real rules, both positive though  thou shalls and negative though shall nevers. Those rules of order are not vacated anymore than time itself is vacated on earth.

It is Yehsua that splits spirit and soul, He judges so closely and thoroughly. We, as VA has considered, have need for God to perceive each of us so closely as to split spirit and soul; perhaps  ( IMO) to find some reason for His redemptive sacrifice being made at all.  

The idea that  humans can  rule themselves by their own conscience presumes each has a conscience, and that they are similar. I suggest that is not the case. Some can and do violate every rule or law from God without it bothering their conscience at all.

Such do not one day  find themselves indwelled by the Holy Spirit and still living  a free wheeling whatever seems good is good guidance.

Murder as example is always murder, a sin. Jesus stepped it up  to include thought of murder also being that sin.

 There are rules  rules from God. God's rules are good, in fact perfect.  They define perfection.

That humans are imperfect even in the womb is another thing, a problem that cannot be reconciled by man's throwing out rules.

It has taken God to reconcile that which is irreconcilable. He has split even spirit from soul in His covering of sin of those that He has elected. Oh oh there is that word. Yes I do adhere to  Romans 8 including 8: 29-31

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, Neighbor said:

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

I suggest that God is a God  with order he is not the God of free  wheeling spirits. He has rules, real rules, both positive though  thou shalls and negative though shall nevers. Those rules of order are not vacated anymore than time itself is vacated on earth.

It is Yehsua that splits spirit and soul, He judges so closely and thoroughly. We, as VA has considered, have need for God to perceive each of us so closely as to split spirit and soul; perhaps  ( IMO) to find some reason for His redemptive sacrifice being made at all.  

The idea that  humans can  rule themselves by their own conscience presumes each has a conscience, and that they are similar. I suggest that is not the case. Some can and do violate every rule or law from God without it bothering their conscience at all.

Such do not one day  find themselves indwelled by the Holy Spirit and still living  a free wheeling whatever seems good is good guidance.

Murder as example is always murder, a sin. Jesus stepped it up  to include thought of murder also being that sin.

 There are rules  rules from God. God's rules are good, in fact perfect.  They define perfection.

That humans are imperfect even in the womb is another thing, a problem that cannot be reconciled by man's throwing out rules.

It has taken God to reconcile that which is irreconcilable. He has split even spirit from soul in His covering of sin of those that He has elected. Oh oh there is that word. Yes I do adhere to  Romans 8 including 8: 29-31

Yes, and we, under the new covenant are actually to follow the law, this law - "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus!"  (which frees us from the bondage of the outward law)

[Neighbor]

15 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus!" 

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us"....