"We accept Christ - then get a bunch of rules to follow"

[Vine Abider]

13 hours ago, Marathoner said:

I came to appreciate the following: 

Take care that no one deceives himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in the sight of God. For it is written: “He is the one who catches the wise by their craftiness”; and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are useless.” (1 Corinthians 3:18-20 NASB)

It's all too easy for us to be deceived. Left to our own devices, that wisdom we regard so highly is nothing but foolishness in the sight of God. Hubris is our downfall. 

I came to appreciate those words of the Lord by way of my plea to Him late one evening. I said, "Lord, teach me righteous judgment, for I'm thick as a brick and don't know what I ought to know." The Lord was pleased to grant my petition, cautioning me to be prepared for the correction to come. The correction would arrive when I least expected it. 

I was deeply concerned, for I found myself thrust into a position where I would be called upon to execute judgments which would affect outcomes for the clients of the transitional housing shelter where He sent me to work. My word could spell the difference between continuing in our program, or immediate dismissal. I don't trust myself with such responsibility... but the Lord surely does. What did He declare?

He wouldn't have sent me here if He didn't. Yeah, that made my head spin like a merry-go-round. I didn't grasp this at the time, but the Lord entrusted me with this responsibility because He knows what I do: I bring matters to Him. 

The day came when the correction promised by the Lord arrived. A client did his very best to assault me and by doing so, guaranteed his instant expulsion from the transitional housing program. I was bound to dutifully report what happened to my fellow members of staff, something the Lord approves of. An honest report is pleasing to God, yes? It is indeed. 

At first, I was assured that his expulsion was necessary. However, in the wake of his assault, the Lord permitted me to overhear this fellow's lament, and what I heard grieved me deeply. I was moved by love for this man. I knew what was coming for him and I asked the Lord, "Lord, is there anything that can be done?" Yes, there was indeed.

Management would decide to hastily expel this man, the Spirit said, but I would be called upon to present myself before the meeting. The program director would ask me if there was something I wished to say, and I would answer that there was. What would I say to them?

"Forgive this man, and give him another chance." When asked why they should do this, I should say, "Because everyone deserves another chance."

It never occurred to me to do anything remotely like this. I was astonished greatly by the counsel of the Lord... that correction to come. I'm pleased to report that everyone in the meeting room was astonished as well. They were pleased to grant that man another chance, and I gained both a brother and a friend. It ended well!

 

10 hours ago, Sower said:

Mr. M, you have brought to mind a sore incident from several years back.

I have a younger brother who is queer,  has led a life style of sin, devastated our family, and also lied about me and my family to my siblings, always causing trouble. Payback. He knows as a Christian what I think of his lifestyle. Trying to create some peace always ended up in war.

He knows I accept him but just not his lifestyle. And this he can not accept and hates me and mine.  Cool.  I would run into a burning building to get him out. But I can not agree with his anti Christian lifestyle. He knows this.

We finally stopped all communication with entire family for a couple of years of peace. One day driving to town I heard J, Vernon McGee preaching on the truck radio and heard him say, "if you have ought against you brother, drop that sacrifice and go to him and get it right"   I pulled over and called my wife.

We talked and she agreed that I go and she would pray for us. I went cross town, knocked on his door and he opened it. He should have been at work. God had a plan! But nothing like I would have ever imagined...

I then ask if we could talk, he said OK. He sat away from me in the dark corner. I started talking about our child hood, all the fun we had, brothers and sister traveling around the world with our military family. Bringing up all the good stuff I could think of. Hoping to set a moment of peace and set things right. This lasted maybe ten minutes.

Then he jumped up and began shouting and cursing at the top of his lungs, non stop, and literately froth and spittal foamed from his mouth. I freaked out. I told him I need to go out side to the patio and have a smoke. He followed me screaming and shouting that I was sick and I needed help.  :)

I sat down and fired up, tears and slobber and snot flowing. Then my cell phone rang. Another brother called and cussed me out for giving this brother a hard time. I hung up on him, walked to my truck and headed to my home about 40 miles away.

I was in total daze driving home. Lord lord lord. What did I do wrong. I did what I believed you wanted me to do? I and my wife prayed to you Lord for direction, and all this hell broke loose. Why Lord, why?

I woke up from my daze when I looked up and saw my shop door in front of me.
No idea how I got home. Wife came running out. What happened?? I said I do not know. And at the time I didn't.

Talking this over with an older Christian, like a mentor, I shared my experience.
What he taught me was God was not interested in the result of talking to my lost brother. He already knew what would happen. The trip was for me.
God was interested in my faithfulness to his call to go. I went. Trust and obey..

No, he has never changed.

 

 

 

 

Thanks to both of you for sharing these stories of instances of faith - this is real stuff!  You both heard the Lord and followed what He told you, and left the outcome it in His hands . . . we often don't understand the outcome that follows, but He is looking for some who just obey His leading, right?  The results must be left to Him, as He is the one who really knows what the results will be.  (and we may not realize the results this side of eternity)

And there's no way that rules could suffice in matters like you both shared, but only by trusting the leading of His inner anointing.  As a brother I know likes to say, "It's all for faith!"

[Sower]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:00 AM, Vine Abider said:

we often don't understand the outcome that follows, but He is looking for some who just obey His leading, right?  The results must be left to Him, as He is the one who really knows what the results will be.

In my post, the gentleman I mentioned as my sorta mentor one day ask me a question. One evening he felt impressed to go visit an old friend he had been witnessing to for many years. He drove across town, knocked on the door. No one answered after many tries, so he drove home.

He ask me if I believed it was the Lord that moved upon him to go. I think I remember saying I didn't really know. He told me that it was more important to get up and go. act, than try to understand God's methods. Be faithful to the holy spirit's promptings.

Don't quench. Don't grieve.

[Neighbor]

Rules are good! God is a God of order and not chaos; God  Has been so forever past, is now, and presumably will be eternally.

 

[Neighbor]

Just a whole bunch of rules for the church recorded by Matthew direct from the mouth of Yeshua under inspriration of God.

Transliterated into the New King James Englush Version Bible

The Beatitudes

 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.  Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:

“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the [a]earth.
 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Believers Are Salt and Light

“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.  Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lamp stand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Christ Fulfills the Law

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.  For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.  Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.  For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousnessof the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder Begins in the Heart

 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’  But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.  Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,  leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.  Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

Adultery in the Heart

“You have heard that it was said to those of old,‘You shall not commit adultery.’  But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.  And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Marriage Is Sacred and Binding

“Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’  But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Jesus Forbids Oaths

 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’  But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.  Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.  But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Go the Second Mile

 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’  But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.  If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.  And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.  Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

Love Your Enemies

 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,  that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?  And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?  Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

 

[Neighbor]

Praise God for being willing to give rules to those He has foreknown, predestined, and given to Jesus whom loses not a one given Him. Yes rules, not options, not Jiminy Cricket "let your (own) conscience be your guide" escapes into "I did it my way".

Nope! There are rules, and they are very specific.  From before Cain to after Judas Iscariot  there are  rules.

There is also God's mercy from everlasting to everlasting. Praise God for His mercy and grace. Praise God for the opportunity to be churched within  local fellowships gathered together to  praise Him  and love one another, and care for one another; all under his very specific guidance and  yes, rules. Rules better than even Robert's Rules of Order.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 2/1/2024 at 5:32 AM, Vine Abider said:

In my Tuesday men's fellowship, a brother said this.  So is this what the Christian life is about?

This is the trap I think many Christians fall into. Even many who claim that they are not legalistic seem to spend a lot of time worried about whether we are doing or not doing certain things. Jesus did not come to tell us to follow the rules. He came to set us free and sadly most Christians live as if they are not free. And those who do live free are often judged by those determined to live legalistically. The modern Church is in a sad State of affairs.

[FJK]

2 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

. He came to set us free and sadly most Christians live as if they are not free. And those who do live free are often judged by those determined to live legalistically

I've heard homosexuals and homosexual priests and preachers, even the Pope for that matter, make similar arguments.

So as I look at NC replacing the old one, I'm wondering if I should agree with them or not.

Are there any standards for sin any more if we are set free from the Law as long as what we do is done in the spirit and name of love?

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Praise God for being willing to give rules to those He has foreknown, predestined, and given to Jesus whom loses not a one given Him. Yes rules, not options, not Jiminy Cricket "let your (own) conscience be your guide" escapes into "I did it my way".

Nope! There are rules, and they are very specific.  From before Cain to after Judas Iscariot  there are  rules.

There is also God's mercy from everlasting to everlasting. Praise God for His mercy and grace. Praise God for the opportunity to be churched within  local fellowships gathered together to  praise Him  and love one another, and care for one another; all under his very specific guidance and  yes, rules. Rules better than even Robert's Rules of Order.

Do you think the Christian life is summed up by rules we must follow - or is it better summed up by Christ living in and through us which gives us the life and ability to so?

[Marathoner]

This topic has been enlightening, @Vine Abider. It helps me to understand why I sometimes struggle to relate to so many of my fellow Christians. There's no question that this has much to do with my lack of a religious upbringing, and how I was not called by the Lord through the auspices of a church. I wasn't given "rules to follow" by anyone and this most assuredly includes the Spirit of the Lord. 

You put it forth very well: the Son of God gave His life to me, and this defines my walk with the Lord. I didn't grasp this for the longest time so, when I was almost dead and the Lord purposed for me to live instead, the realization of what Christ has done seized me. My own life was forfeit... so the Lord give me His life so I might live, and live abundantly. 

This is not a worldly abundance by any means. It speaks of the riches of His glory, not the riches of this earth. The latter can be stolen by thieves or eaten by moths, but the treasure He stores for us in heaven cannot decay nor be pilfered. 

[RdJ]

On 2/9/2024 at 4:44 AM, Sower said:

Mr. M, you have brought to mind a sore incident from several years back.

I have a younger brother who is queer,  has led a life style of sin, devastated our family, and also lied about me and my family to my siblings, always causing trouble. Payback. He knows as a Christian what I think of his lifestyle. Trying to create some peace always ended up in war.

He knows I accept him but just not his lifestyle. And this he can not accept and hates me and mine.  Cool.  I would run into a burning building to get him out. But I can not agree with his anti Christian lifestyle. He knows this.

We finally stopped all communication with entire family for a couple of years of peace. One day driving to town I heard J, Vernon McGee preaching on the truck radio and heard him say, "if you have ought against you brother, drop that sacrifice and go to him and get it right"   I pulled over and called my wife.

We talked and she agreed that I go and she would pray for us. I went cross town, knocked on his door and he opened it. He should have been at work. God had a plan! But nothing like I would have ever imagined...

I then ask if we could talk, he said OK. He sat away from me in the dark corner. I started talking about our child hood, all the fun we had, brothers and sister traveling around the world with our military family. Bringing up all the good stuff I could think of. Hoping to set a moment of peace and set things right. This lasted maybe ten minutes.

Then he jumped up and began shouting and cursing at the top of his lungs, non stop, and literately froth and spittal foamed from his mouth. I freaked out. I told him I need to go out side to the patio and have a smoke. He followed me screaming and shouting that I was sick and I needed help.  :)

I sat down and fired up, tears and slobber and snot flowing. Then my cell phone rang. Another brother called and cussed me out for giving this brother a hard time. I hung up on him, walked to my truck and headed to my home about 40 miles away.

I was in total daze driving home. Lord lord lord. What did I do wrong. I did what I believed you wanted me to do? I and my wife prayed to you Lord for direction, and all this hell broke loose. Why Lord, why?

I woke up from my daze when I looked up and saw my shop door in front of me.
No idea how I got home. Wife came running out. What happened?? I said I do not know. And at the time I didn't.

Talking this over with an older Christian, like a mentor, I shared my experience.
What he taught me was God was not interested in the result of talking to my lost brother. He already knew what would happen. The trip was for me.
God was interested in my faithfulness to his call to go. I went. Trust and obey..

No, he has never changed.

That's sad. Just keep demanding he gets saved and bind the powers that blind him. He's your brother. Me and my house. My granddad cheated on my grandma for years, lived with other women while married. She had to work and take care of the kids alone. When he went to his brother's wife, cause he died, she had enough and divorced. We didn't see him for 20 years. My dad protected us for him. He pulled people from their faith, antitheist. He mocked my mom. But he was my grandpa. He had no free will. Me and my house. I demanded he'd get saved, bound those powers that blinded him. He had also been in Rosecrucianism. After my grandma died we had contact with him again. I once tried to share the Gospel. Wow. Never mind.

The evening before he died God said: You have the keys. Use them. Tomorrow will be too late. He got saved on his death bed. My mom said lately that he was laughing about a Bible text, a very serious one about hell or something and hahaha look at this, not long before he died. She said: I would take that seriously. Yes yes you're right, he said.