Why there are no two Witnesses of Moses with Elijah and 144k Sealed Hebrew in modern Israel

[Shilohsfoal]

8 minutes ago, FJK said:

That's true, but is being Hebrew a requirement for being one of the Two Witnesses?

They are more than likely gentiles.The army they command is definitely gentiles.

 

² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

[Guest Stormy Monday]

First, a temple doesn't need rebuilding for prophecy to pass. Daniel says the temple remains desolate until the consummation.  

The Temple mount's Dome of the Rock or Al-Aqsa Mosque is where this prophecy takes place and passes. Standing upon this site is the anti-Christ abomination of the Dome of the Rock where Muhammad supposedly ascended to heaven. This is where the Two Witnesses will rise from.  They are witnessing to Muslim's in the outer court of the Temple mount. Which is why John was told not to measure the Outer Court.

"Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.  But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."

In the Old Testament there are times where measuring something indicates ownership, protection, and preservation and this is what implied here. The Temple Mount - AKA Mount Moriah - is the only piece of ground on earth that God has personally claimed as His own.  

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I don't know why you said that. Could you give me a bit more background. Thanks.

Imho at the fullness of gentiles God returns the mandate of Gospel news Salvation to the Hebrew and Moses with Elijah have visited Jesus ministry on earth for their end Times testimony. Thats why the 144k Hebrew will be sealed for protection as these Hebrew replace the church in the great tribulation.

@FJK

[R. Hartono]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

They are more than likely gentiles.The army they command is definitely gentiles.

 

² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Imho that shows the old Jerusalem city being internationalized and might be ruled by the Arabs and Palestinians. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_303

@Stormy Monday

Edited February 15, 2024 by R. Hartono

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Imho that shows the old Jerusalem city being internationalized and might be ruled by the Arabs and Palestinians. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_303

@Stormy Monday

 

² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

 

The arrival of the two witnesses and gentiles in revelation 11:2-3 takes place 42 months before the resurrection ,including the two witnesses and the coming of Christ at the sound of the seventh Trump.

This corresponds to the arrival of the son of perdition's armed forces in Israel when the daily sacrifice is abolished in Daniel 11:31,which would be 42 months before the great tribulation and resurection in Daniel 12:1-2.

 

The gentiles in revelation 11:2 are the armed forces in Daniel 11:31.

 

Daniel 11:31

“His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

5 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Imho that shows the old Jerusalem city being internationalized and might be ruled by the Arabs and Palestinians. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_303

@Stormy Monday

PS.

Just so you know.The command given to the armed forces in Daniel 11:31 to destroy their enemies is the fire command.

 

Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information).

 

 

Revelation 21

⁵ And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

They are more than likely gentiles.The army they command is definitely gentiles.

 

² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

51 minutes ago, Stormy Monday said:

First, a temple doesn't need rebuilding for prophecy to pass. Daniel says the temple remains desolate until the consummation.  

The Temple mount's Dome of the Rock or Al-Aqsa Mosque is where this prophecy takes place and passes. Standing upon this site is the anti-Christ abomination of the Dome of the Rock where Muhammad supposedly ascended to heaven. This is where the Two Witnesses will rise from.  They are witnessing to Muslim's in the outer court of the Temple mount. Which is why John was told not to measure the Outer Court.

"Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.  But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."

In the Old Testament there are times where measuring something indicates ownership, protection, and preservation and this is what implied here. The Temple Mount - AKA Mount Moriah - is the only piece of ground on earth that God has personally claimed as His own.  

 

@R. Hartono

4 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Imho at the fullness of gentiles God returns the mandate of Gospel news Salvation to the Hebrew and Moses with Elijah have visited Jesus ministry on earth for their end Times testimony. Thats why the 144k Hebrew will be sealed for protection as these Hebrew replace the church in the great tribulation.

@FJK

 

4 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Imho that shows the old Jerusalem city being internationalized and might be ruled by the Arabs and Palestinians. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_303

@Stormy Monday

 

6 hours ago, Stormy Monday said:

First, a temple doesn't need rebuilding for prophecy to pass. Daniel says the temple remains desolate until the consummation.  

The Temple mount's Dome of the Rock or Al-Aqsa Mosque is where this prophecy takes place and passes. Standing upon this site is the anti-Christ abomination of the Dome of the Rock where Muhammad supposedly ascended to heaven. This is where the Two Witnesses will rise from.  They are witnessing to Muslim's in the outer court of the Temple mount. Which is why John was told not to measure the Outer Court.

"Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.  But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."

In the Old Testament there are times where measuring something indicates ownership, protection, and preservation and this is what implied here. The Temple Mount - AKA Mount Moriah - is the only piece of ground on earth that God has personally claimed as His own.  

 

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

They are more than likely gentiles.The army they command is definitely gentiles.

 

² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

There are multiple considerations for Jerusalem in Revelation Chapter 11. Each accounts for the specific solution. But here are a few to set the scene.

A temple is needed. (1) Daniel 9 says that "THE Covenant is strengthened" After 3½ years it is broken by the Beast banning the daily oblation. There is only one Covenant that contains the daily oblation - that of the Law of Moses at Horeb. So the Covenant is revealed by the verse. This also confirms the presence of the temple for the daily oblation needs the Temple with its altar. (2) 2nd Thessalonians 2:4 says that the Beast will be in this Temple. (3) Revelation 11 says that there is a Temple to be measured in plain language.

Moses cannot be one of the Witnesses. Both Hebrews 9:27 and Luke 20:35-36 say that a resurrected man cannot die. Moses died and his body was fought for so that he could be on the Mount of Transfiguration in the KINGDOM with Christ. For Moses to be one of the Witnesses he will need to die twice - an overthrow of scripture.

The reason for the Two Witnesses lies in the meaning of the Greek word. It is does not mean preaching the gospel as in witnessing for Christ. It means that these two men saw something and are prepared to be an eye-witness even unto death. From this word we get the word "martyrs". So we must ask, "What did thy witness". Again, the answer lies in the text. The Beast has set up his throne, not in Rome, but in Jerusalem. 2nd Thessalonians 2:4 confirms that. Seven years before Armageddon the Beast becomes the POLITICAL leader of the world. Three and one half years before Armageddon the Beast set Himself in the Holy of Holies of this Temple and declares himself as RELIGIOUS leader of the world. What is God's reaction to this affront?

God plunges the world into a Great Tribulation, and its center is Jerusalem thus giving it the designation "Jacob's Trouble". NOW, WHO IS ALIVE AND WAS WITNESS TO THE EVENTS LEADING TO THE LAST WORLD JUDGMENT, AND WHO WAS ALIVE AND WITNESS TO ISRAEL'S JUDGMENT FOR IDOL WORSHIP FOR 3½ YEARS? Enoch was alive and a WITNESS as evil encompassed the whole world and God set the flood, and Elijah was WITNESS to God's judgment on Israel for 3½. All other men, including Noah and his family, who were WITNESS to the world-wide evil at that time, are dead.

The TWO WITNESSES do not preach Christ during their 1260 days of testimony. They preach COMING JUDGMENT. They call fire down on their enemies - not turn the other cheek.

 

[Michael37]

18 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The TWO WITNESSES do not preach Christ during their 1260 days of testimony. They preach COMING JUDGMENT. They call fire down on their enemies - not turn the other cheek.

Yes, being a sealed servant of God is preferrable to the alternative.

Rev 7:3-4  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.  (4)  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Seventh Seal Opened

Rev 14:1-5  And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.  (2)  And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:  (3)  And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.  (4)  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.  (5)  And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

[AdHoc]

25 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Yes, being a sealed servant of God is preferrable to the alternative.

Rev 7:3-4  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.  (4)  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Seventh Seal Opened

Rev 14:1-5  And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.  (2)  And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:  (3)  And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.  (4)  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.  (5)  And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

I find remarkable differences between the two groups. here are some

Those of Chapter 7:1-8 are on earth - those of Chapter 14:1-5 are in heaven (see the same scene as Chapter 4)
Those of 7 are sealed on their foreheads - those of 14 have their Father's Name
Those of 7 remain on earth (9:4) - those of 14 are "redeemed from the earth"
Those of 7 are Israelites - those of 14 are "Virgins" - a name for Christians (2. Cor.11:2)
Those of 7 are Israelites. They reject the Lamb - those of 14 follow the Lamb
Those of 7 are Israelites. They follow Moses - those of 14 are "redeemed from among men"
Those of 7 are a representative of Israel minus Dan - those of 14 are "firstfruits"

I would say, based on the evidence, that those of Chapter 7 are the Jewish REMNANT predicted in Romans 9 and 11 and those of Chapter 14 are the firstfruits of the Church.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

I find remarkable differences between the two groups. here are some

Those of Chapter 7:1-8 are on earth - those of Chapter 14:1-5 are in heaven (see the same scene as Chapter 4)
Those of 7 are sealed on their foreheads - those of 14 have their Father's Name
Those of 7 remain on earth (9:4) - those of 14 are "redeemed from the earth"
Those of 7 are Israelites - those of 14 are "Virgins" - a name for Christians (2. Cor.11:2)
Those of 7 are Israelites. They reject the Lamb - those of 14 follow the Lamb
Those of 7 are Israelites. They follow Moses - those of 14 are "redeemed from among men"
Those of 7 are a representative of Israel minus Dan - those of 14 are "firstfruits"

I would say, based on the evidence, that those of Chapter 7 are the Jewish REMNANT predicted in Romans 9 and 11 and those of Chapter 14 are the firstfruits of the Church.

You believe the 144000 of the tribes of Israel in chapter 7 rejected the lamb?

 

Ohhhh My

And here I was thinking they did everything Jesus commanded them to do in the gospel.If they had rejected the lamb then they would be hiding in the bomb shelters with everyone else in Israel.