Why there are no two Witnesses of Moses with Elijah and 144k Sealed Hebrew in modern Israel

[tatwo]

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

When resurrection day came, Christ breathed the Holy Spirit into His disciples and a THIRD entity was born. They did not belong to Israel (old things had passed away) and they did not belong to the Nations.

Look how you wrote it AdHoc…”They did not belong to Israel (old things had passed away)” ...you essentially took the words right off my keyboard…Israel "was" the old thing that passed away.

You have Israel [Jews]…and you have the nations [gentiles]…and this “one new man” comes along for three…this is what you are saying…I see that.

However nowhere do I see you attribute Christ’s fulfilling of the Law and Prophets to your trifecta here. One must understand that all God had intended for "Israel" with the Law and Prophets was to produce Christ…which it did.

Christ via the Holy Spirit then begins the fulfillment of the second part of God’s covenant with Abraham…a “Spirit Man” made up from every tribe, tongue, people and nation.

Once the Law and Prophets are fulfilled and the spiritual Son/seed of God comes forth in grace and truth…the Law is now for the lawless…only…which all of humanity that is not in Christ…is...sin.

The Lord Yahshua Christ utterly and entirely fulfilled every purpose and prophecy and obeyed the entire Law according to His Fathers righteous and holy desire…this includes all of His intentions for a “natural” nation…and in this case it is Israel.

Once the Kingdom of God came to the earth…there are now only two kinds of people…those in Christ and those who are not. I once heard it said…”those in covenant with God and those who are not. This was so long before the Church came into existence.”

That then would be the “New Covenant” in the blood of Christ…for if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. The first covenant was never the Fathers completed intention…that could only come in Christ.

Try as you may to "shoe horn" the natural physical ethnic nation of Israel into the end time picture will only cost you your salvation AdHoc...its a bold rejection of all that is Christ.

That in fact is what Israel did...and Yahshua prophesied their absolute desolation and destruction...which ended them as Gods fleshly people in 70. 

This will press you deeper than you realize and sooner than you are prepared for.

Tatwo...:)

[Shilohsfoal]

9 hours ago, tatwo said:

Look how you wrote it AdHoc…”They did not belong to Israel (old things had passed away)” ...you essentially took the words right off my keyboard…Israel "was" the old thing that passed away.

You have Israel [Jews]…and you have the nations [gentiles]…and this “one new man” comes along for three…this is what you are saying…I see that.

However nowhere do I see you attribute Christ’s fulfilling of the Law and Prophets to your trifecta here. One must understand that all God had intended for "Israel" with the Law and Prophets was to produce Christ…which it did.

Christ via the Holy Spirit then begins the fulfillment of the second part of God’s covenant with Abraham…a “Spirit Man” made up from every tribe, tongue, people and nation.

Once the Law and Prophets are fulfilled and the spiritual Son/seed of God comes forth in grace and truth…the Law is now for the lawless…only…which all of humanity that is not in Christ…is...sin.

The Lord Yahshua Christ utterly and entirely fulfilled every purpose and prophecy and obeyed the entire Law according to His Fathers righteous and holy desire…this includes all of His intentions for a “natural” nation…and in this case it is Israel.

Once the Kingdom of God came to the earth…there are now only two kinds of people…those in Christ and those who are not. I once heard it said…”those in covenant with God and those who are not. This was so long before the Church came into existence.”

That then would be the “New Covenant” in the blood of Christ…for if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. The first covenant was never the Fathers completed intention…that could only come in Christ.

Try as you may to "shoe horn" the natural physical ethnic nation of Israel into the end time picture will only cost you your salvation AdHoc...its a bold rejection of all that is Christ.

That in fact is what Israel did...and Yahshua prophesied their absolute desolation and destruction...which ended them as Gods fleshly people in 70. 

This will press you deeper than you realize and sooner than you are prepared for.

Tatwo...:)

Israel did not passed away.Israel became a light for the nations.My light ,and the light of the world.

49 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

² And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

³ And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

⁴ Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

⁵ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

⁶ And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

 

 

 

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Oh,I'm mistaken

 

You have not acknowledged Christ ,have you.Christ is the testator of the new covenant which God makes with Israel.Tue new covenant where God places his law in Israels inward parts.

No problem about the mistake, but I'm confused about your accusation. Why would you object to something I have not said. I thought a man is accused by what he HAS said. You've just acknowledged that there was no discussion about the New Covenant and now suddenly, without me having said a word, I'm accused of not acknowledging the Testator.

What's going on?

[Shilohsfoal]

8 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

No problem about the mistake, but I'm confused about your accusation. Why would you object to something I have not said. I thought a man is accused by what he HAS said. You've just acknowledged that there was no discussion about the New Covenant and now suddenly, without me having said a word, I'm accused of not acknowledging the Testator.

What's going on?

This is what you said.

  On 2/16/2024 at 6:07 AM, AdHoc said:

Not at all. Romans 11 says that ISRAEL will remain hard and blind to the END. Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11 say that there is no Jew in the New Man. By calling them Israelites He banishes any thought of them being part of the New Man. Dan is missing. Yet scripture says "of ALL the tribes of Israel". This makes the 144,000 REPRESENTATIVE of Israel. The Tribes of Israel are "sealed" so as not to be hurt by the Great Tribulation (9:4), not sealed by the Holy Spirit as guarantee of resurrection like the Church.

They are Israelites. They being named Israelites makes them those who rejected their Messiah. Them being called "Israelites" makes them Paul's brethren "according to the FLESH" (Rom.9:3-4). A believer is a NEW CREATURE. Israelites came from Jacob

_--------------------------------------

 

To say the 144000 are Israelites who reject Christ would be wrong.They are the ones who follow the Lamb.

 

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

 

² And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

⁵ And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

These Israelites didn't get the name of God written in their foreheads by rejecting Christ. They got it by doing everything Jesus had commanded in the gospel. 

 

 

Revelation 3:12

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

 

They are called Israel because they have overcome.

 

Genesis 32:28

Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
 

[Shilohsfoal]

22 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

No problem about the mistake, but I'm confused about your accusation. Why would you object to something I have not said. I thought a man is accused by what he HAS said. You've just acknowledged that there was no discussion about the New Covenant and now suddenly, without me having said a word, I'm accused of not acknowledging the Testator.

What's going on?

What more.

All these who are resurected and reign with Christ are Israelites.

 

Revelation 20:6

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

 

Revelation 20:6 is the fulfillment of the word of God as given to the Israelites through Moses.

 

 

Exodus 19

 

⁵ Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

⁶ And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

To say the 144000 are Israelites who reject Christ would be wrong.They are the ones who follow the Lamb.

On what basis do you make the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8 the same company as the 144,000 of Chapter 14:1-5? The differences are enormous. Here are some:

Those of 7 are from twelve Tribes of Israel, authenticated by Dan missing with Manasseh being there
Those of 14 are from "among men"

The scene of 7 is on earth
The scene of 14 is heaven. The 24 Elders and 4 creatures are there - same as Chapter 4

There are Israelites in the Nation of Israel
There is "no Jew" in the Church (Gal.3:28, Col.3:11)

Those of 7 are "sealed"
Those of 14 have the Father's name in their forehead

Those of Israel are sealed to protect them from what happens on earth (Rev.9:4)
Those in 14 are "redeemed FROM the earth"

Israel is fruit of Jacob
Those of 14 are "firstfruits unto God"

Israel reject Jesus till the "fullness of the Gentiles"
Those of 14 "follow the Lamb"

Israel hate and curse the Lamb
Those of 14 sing before the throne while it is in heaven

Israel deny the Lord Jesus with their mouths
Those of 14 have no guile in their mouths

Israel will go through "Jacob's Trouble" for their sins
Those of 14 are without fault

Those of 7 are in the "four winds" used by the prophets to denote the Nations among who they are scattered (Jer.49:36, Ezek.37:19). They were scattered because of breaking the Law (Lev.26:33)

Those of 7 have no record of embracing the Lamb

Those of 7 are sealed. God did this when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem (Ezek.9:4-6)

The only common factor is their number - 144,000 - the number of New Jerusalem - 12 X 12 X 1,000

Those of 7 are the predicted "REMNANT" of Romans 9 and 11. They keep the Law (Deut.30:1-5)
Those of 14 are the Overcomers from the Churches in apostasy.

Israel hate and persecute Christians.

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

What more.

All these who are resurected and reign with Christ are Israelites.

 

Revelation 20:6

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

 

Revelation 20:6 is the fulfillment of the word of God as given to the Israelites through Moses.

 

 

Exodus 19

 

⁵ Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

⁶ And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

For Revelation 20 - who killed who? Israel killed Christians

For Revelation 20 - Who shall reign? See Matthew 21:43

Exodus 19:5-6 is different to 1st Peter 2:9 -
1. A Kingdom is a sphere of rule with a king and SUBJECTS. That is Israel. "Priests" SERVE! So will Israel in the Millennium (Lk.1:74)
2. A ROYAL priesthhood (the Church) means that all are kings, or that all belong to the king's family. They RULE

God bless.

[Shilohsfoal]

16 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

On what basis do you make the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8 the same company as the 144,000 of Chapter 14:1-5? The differences are enormous. Here are some:

Those of 7 are from twelve Tribes of Israel, authenticated by Dan missing with Manasseh being there
Those of 14 are from "among men"

The scene of 7 is on earth
The scene of 14 is heaven. The 24 Elders and 4 creatures are there - same as Chapter 4

There are Israelites in the Nation of Israel
There is "no Jew" in the Church (Gal.3:28, Col.3:11)

Those of 7 are "sealed"
Those of 14 have the Father's name in their forehead

Those of Israel are sealed to protect them from what happens on earth (Rev.9:4)
Those in 14 are "redeemed FROM the earth"

Israel is fruit of Jacob
Those of 14 are "firstfruits unto God"

Israel reject Jesus till the "fullness of the Gentiles"
Those of 14 "follow the Lamb"

Israel hate and curse the Lamb
Those of 14 sing before the throne while it is in heaven

Israel deny the Lord Jesus with their mouths
Those of 14 have no guile in their mouths

Israel will go through "Jacob's Trouble" for their sins
Those of 14 are without fault

Those of 7 are in the "four winds" used by the prophets to denote the Nations among who they are scattered (Jer.49:36, Ezek.37:19). They were scattered because of breaking the Law (Lev.26:33)

Those of 7 have no record of embracing the Lamb

Those of 7 are sealed. God did this when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem (Ezek.9:4-6)

The only common factor is their number - 144,000 - the number of New Jerusalem - 12 X 12 X 1,000

Those of 7 are the predicted "REMNANT" of Romans 9 and 11. They keep the Law (Deut.30:1-5)
Those of 14 are the Overcomers from the Churches in apostasy.

Israel hate and persecute Christians.

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

You have got to be kidding.

You believe there are no Jews in the church?

Do you also teach there are no men in the church?

Galatians ,3:38

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 

 

Perhaps you are not in the church if you are a man.

[AdHoc]

1 minute ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

You have got to be kidding.

You believe there are no Jews in the church?

Do you also teach there are no men in the church?

Galatians ,3:38

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 

 

Perhaps you are not in the church if you are a man.

No. I don't teach that. THE BIBLE DOES.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, AdHoc said:

For Revelation 20 - who killed who? Israel killed Christians

For Revelation 20 - Who shall reign? See Matthew 21:43

Exodus 19:5-6 is different to 1st Peter 2:9 -
1. A Kingdom is a sphere of rule with a king and SUBJECTS. That is Israel. "Priests" SERVE! So will Israel in the Millennium (Lk.1:74)
2. A ROYAL priesthhood (the Church) means that all are kings, or that all belong to the king's family. They RULE

God bless.

No 

Revelation 20:6 are all Israelis who don't worship the beast,it's image or recieve it's mark 

They will reign with Christ in his kingdom.

Isaiah 14:2

Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

 

 

The nations don't rule the nations in to he Lords land.Israel reigns with Christ in the Lords land.

 

revelation 20

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

 

Don't be jealous