Eternal Salvation Is Free; Ruling With Christ Is Earned

[AdHoc]

13 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I think that the essential difference between us is that I wish you would answer only what I said, and you wish I would ask what you meant. (smile).

Now, I'll try to fulfill your wish. You have our Lord's Throne  ("Thronos - Gk.) in heaven in Revelation 4.2. You also agree that He returns to earth and His Throne is placed on earth to judge all nations in Matthew 25:31-32. Then you have Him returning to heaven (without scripture). That means that He only "TRAVELED" to earth for judgment. But when He traveled to the sky to judge the Church, He did not take His throne but a BEMA (Gk. - Rom.14:10, 2nd Cor.5:10).

Why is a BEMA (the traveling throne of a king or representative of the king) good enough for His travels to the clouds, but He must call upon His "THRONOS" for the heathen on earth?

And you still got Ephesians 1:21 wrong. The THING that is above everything in this age and the next is not Christ's THRONE. It is His NAME.

But now I have a question for you. If Adam and Eve had obeyed God, they would have had the LIFE of the Tree. They also were commanded to "fill" or "replenish" THE EARTH. How could this be if God's plan was for them to be moved to the third heaven?

Please show scripture for how this could happen? If you say that God had to change His plan, then the Devil won and we can throw our Bibles away because we all believe  that God's councils are immutable.

 

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

O.K.. Let me be sure of what you have said.

1. First, please give the verses that name the "THIRD Heaven"

2. Second, please give me the verses which name and define "THE UNIVERSAL REALM"

3. Third, God made man of the earth, to be nourished by the earth to subdue and rule the EARTH. His domain and sphere of rule is outlined in Psalm 8. Now, our Lord Jesus defined God's Kingdom in Luke 11:20.

20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you

Our Lord Jesus, the King, was present on earth to attack a demon, or demons. Why was He present and why did HE do it when the principalities are to be subjected by the third heaven? And why was the FINGER of God on earth? How could the Kingdom COME if Jesus had not been there with the finger of God? If the demons live in the sea, why put the kings who would rule over them in heaven when the King of kings says that the kingdom comes when He comes?

I appreciate that we all hold something, and I appreciate your sharp thought process, but don't you think that its time to reconsider? It's not a sin to have held something that later proves to be incorrect. I'm sure there are plenty of things in this grand Book that I've held, or do hold, that are wrong. Our Lord Jesus ruled and subdued both Angel and demon perfectly from His position on earth.

 

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Morning or afternoon to you, bro,

I must thank you for asking such great questions. Yes, indeed we do seem to misunderstand each other. I do think I`m replying to you on a relevant point and you think I`m missing what you said. So, we need to attend a bit better. Though we must admit it is good to have `iron sharpening iron.` 

So, the word throne is not just a seat in some place, but I think you would agree it represents `power and authority.` Thus, when the Lord comes to earth to deliver Israel and judge the nations He has the power and authority the Father has given Him. No one on earth has given Him that power and authority. 

There is no travelling taking a seat with Him, but where ever the Lord goes He has the power and authority (represented in Rev. 4: 2) from the Father.

As to Eph. 1: 21 & 22 it is the Lord and His power and authority that is above every thing - `And He put all things under His feet.`  The name of the Lord is His power and authority and His character. 

Col. 1: 16 tells us that the Lord created all realms for Himself. He has the power and authority over them all.

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

 

Now to your very interesting question. Of course, God did not change His mind or original plan and purpose for mankind. God just unfolded more of that especially after Christ ascended to His right hand. For there the Lord revealed to His Body His whole plan and purpose. Remember the Apostle Paul told the disciples in Ephesus that he had decaled to them the `whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)

So, let`s start with Adam and Eve. God foreknew they would disobey but God had His plan of redemption, as we well know. Now, we are not talking about their salvation but where they will go in eternity. Did you ever notice in Heb. 11, the `hall of fame,` that the list of those of faith in God`s promises start at Abel, not Adam. Why is that? 

It is because Abel was given a further revelation of a city as his inheritance. 

`Now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. `(Heb. 11: 16)

Adam and Eve were only given the earth as their inheritance. (Gen. 1: 28) 

The Body of Christ has been given an even greater revelation of their inheritance, which is to rule and reign with Christ on His seat of power and authority in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21,   4: 2)

All realms will have righteous rulership under the Lord Jesus Christ. He created all realms and will have His righteous rulership in each.

 

 

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

1. Third heaven. (2 Cor. 12: 2.  Ps. 68: 33.  Rev. 4: 1 & 2)

2. The Universal realm. (Gen. 1: 14 - 18)

3. The earth. (Gen. 1: 9 - 12) Ps. 8 refers to man as God made him. However, further revelation was given to some, as we read of in Hebrews 11. 

The Kingdom of God is His rulership over all. (1 Cor. 15: 24) When Jesus was manifested on earth He came to His own, His people Israel as their King. He revealed His great authority over demons, sickness, disease, nature, wild animals, etc. This power was of no earthly king. The kingdom, rule of their King was in their midst, but they refused Him.

Yes, the Lord had authority over Satan and his demons, however Christ had to die to overcome death and Satan`s power over it.

`Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.

And release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. ` (Heb. 2: 14 & 15)

He rose victorious, (as we well know & praise Him). 

I put my two postings with my questions together with your replies.

You were unable to answer my questions.

The verses you gave do not intimate RULE from the third heaven.

There is no verse even mentioning a "Universal Realm"

Only one verse even mentioned the third heaven and it is a heaven that Paul was raptured to - not from where RULE comes.

The question about Christ's presence to displace demons you avoided.

You have woven a mythical kingdom of the third heaven. God's rule is from "above the highest heaven" (Eph.4:10).

You have contradicted a direct statement in Revelation 5:10 that redeemed MEN will rule ON the earth.

C'mon sis ... time to take stock. Christ's kingship "FILLS THE WHOLE EARTH" (Dan.2:35). Your thesis leaves the earth without kings.

[steve morrow]

OVERSIGHT ??

 

PSALM 119:155  salvation is far from the wicked  --for they seek not thy statutes--

 

HEBREWS 5:9  and being made perfect --HE  --  became--  the author of eternal salvation 

 

JOHN 5:34  but  --I--  receive not testimony from man but these things I say that you might be saved 

 

2 THESSALONIANS 2:10  and with all deceiveablness of unrighteousness in them that  --PERISH--  because they received not the love of the truth -- that they might be saved 

 

PSALM 25:5  lead me in thy truth and teach me  ---  FOR  THOU  ART  THE  GOD  OF  MY  SALVATION  ---  ON THEE  DO  I  WAIT  ALL  THE  DAY 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

On 3/24/2024 at 11:45 PM, AdHoc said:

 

 

 

I put my two postings with my questions together with your replies.

You were unable to answer my questions.

The verses you gave do not intimate RULE from the third heaven.

There is no verse even mentioning a "Universal Realm"

Only one verse even mentioned the third heaven and it is a heaven that Paul was raptured to - not from where RULE comes.

The question about Christ's presence to displace demons you avoided.

You have woven a mythical kingdom of the third heaven. God's rule is from "above the highest heaven" (Eph.4:10).

You have contradicted a direct statement in Revelation 5:10 that redeemed MEN will rule ON the earth.

C'mon sis ... time to take stock. Christ's kingship "FILLS THE WHOLE EARTH" (Dan.2:35). Your thesis leaves the earth without kings.

Bro Ad Hoc,

I was very surprised at your comments. I have answered both your postings. 

For example - You said -

O.K.. Let me be sure of what you have said.

"1. First, please give the verses that name the "THIRD Heaven"

 

I then replied -

1. Third heaven. (2 Cor. 12: 2.  Ps. 68: 33.  Rev. 4: 1 & 2)

And so on. You asked I replied.

 

You now say -You were unable to answer my questions.

Where is the discussion there? What part of my answer did you not understand or need more information? To just wipe my answer off is very rude. We are here to discuss not dismiss each other.

Next you ask a whole NEW question and blame me for not answering it. You said -

The verses you gave do not intimate RULE from the third heaven.

Where have you asked that before? 

So, if we are going to have a sensible discussion, we need to have one or two points and then ask the questions, and then comment specifically on the reply. And especially not saying you have not answered when I have.