The gathering of the Lords people

[luigi]

As a true Jew according to Paul is one who is inwardly so in their heart, and not due to heredity (Romans 2:28-29);--the formation of the land of Israel in 1948 that many individuals claim to be the gathering of the Lords people would then be inaccurate. The gathering of the Lords people from the four winds would then consist of people throughout the world who are inwardly spiritually circumcised in heart who believe in love for their fellow man. Among these individuals will also be full blooded Jews who are inwardly spiritually circumcised in heart, who believe in love for their fellow man, who will be gathered from the four winds of the earth. This gathering of the faithful throughout the world happens following the great tribulation, when most who believe thusly, will have been killed during the beasts reign.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

[RdJ]

Gentile believers are never called Jews and absolutely never called Jacob, which is Israel before wresting with God and conversion.

 

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

Edited April 24 by RdJ

[luigi]

22 minutes ago, RdJ said:

Gentile believers are never called Jews and absolutely never called Jacob, which is Israel before wresting with God and conversion.

 

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

An original definition for a Jew was for an individual who resided in Judea, and thus were known as Judeans. Likewise, Gentiles, does not mean anyone who is not a Jew, but instead is in regards to unbelievers. True believers are not Gentiles.

You are nevertheless partially correct;-- believers when gathered from the four winds will be called by another name, other than Jew (Isaiah 65:15).

Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

[luigi]

Another thing I will point out;-- although it is really rather kindergarten.

Around the time of Isaiah, circa the 8th century BC, 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel who had sinned were expelled from the land of Israel. What do you think happened to these individuals? Answer: They were assimilated into the nations. With the exception of some indigenous peoples of the world; everyone today has some of these 10 tribes in them.

But this is beyond the point, and is the kindergarten part, that everyone here should already be aware of. I would rather be an Eskimo, or any other indigenous person, who hasn't one drop of any of the 12 tribes of Israel blood; but am in my heart circumcised with Christs Way, than being a 100% full blood Jew, who is not circumcised in heart with Christs Way, whom when the Lord returns, He will slay; while His servant indigenous peoples without one drop of Jewish blood, will be rewarded (Isaiah 65:15; Revelation 11:18).

Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[D. Adrien]

Hosea 1: 10-11(ESV)

 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And in the place where it was said to them, “You are not my people,” it shall be said to them, “Children of the living God.” 11 And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint for themselves one head. And they shall go up from the land, for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

[TheBlade]

7 minutes ago, D. Adrien said:

Hosea 1: 10-11(ESV)

 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And in the place where it was said to them, “You are not my people,” it shall be said to them, “Children of the living God.” 11 And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint for themselves one head. And they shall go up from the land, for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Yeah if you think about what God told Abraham, if he could count the stars  "And the LORD brought Abram outside [his tent into the night] and said, “Look now toward the heavens and count the stars—if you are able to count them.” Then He said to him, “

They say what we can see is about 6000-8000.  Hmm looks bad for all us huh haha..sorry. Yet what they also say" If you were to look outside on a clear night, you could see as many as 6,000 stars over your head. That seems like a lot, but it's just a tiny fraction of the total number of stars in outer space. According to astronomers, there are approximately 200 billion trillion stars in our observable universe." Yeah God said the stars.. no one can count them way to many.

As He showed me this tiny tree with so many branches said "Show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". Then as its written, as Isaac was we are the Children of promise. 

He said to them "‘When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress or mistreat him. But the stranger who resides with you shall be to you like someone native-born among you; and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God." He has not changed.. All that are grafted in no one but no one can tell what branch was original vs grafted in. They are the same to GOD. 

[AdHoc]

42 minutes ago, luigi said:

Another thing I will point out;-- although it is really rather kindergarten.

Around the time of Isaiah, circa the 8th century BC, 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel who had sinned were expelled from the land of Israel. What do you think happened to these individuals? Answer: They were assimilated into the nations. With the exception of some indigenous peoples of the world; everyone today has some of these 10 tribes in them.

But this is beyond the point, and is the kindergarten part, that everyone here should already be aware of. I would rather be an Eskimo, or any other indigenous person, who hasn't one drop of any of the 12 tribes of Israel blood; but am in my heart circumcised with Christs Way, than being a 100% full blood Jew, who is not circumcised in heart with Christs Way, whom when the Lord returns, He will slay; while His servant indigenous peoples without one drop of Jewish blood, will be rewarded (Isaiah 65:15; Revelation 11:18).

Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I'm not so sure about your appreciation for the "blood" of Jews and about "circumcised in heart with Christ's way".

1. the promise to Abraham was to him and his SEED. If Jew A has four children they are seed of Abraham. If one of them marries a Turk and they have four children, they are SEED of Abraham via the Jewish part. If you argue that the bloodline is untrue, you have then to explain why Jesus could be a Jew with Rahab, Ruth and company in His genealogy. Scripture validates the male line as Jesus is of David's House. So also does scripture validate the female line as Jesus was a Jew from Mary - him not having a biological father.

2. Ezekiel 37 covers Israel's recovery. Since seed of Jacob died in Egypt, the Wilderness, the Land of Canaan and the countries that they were dispersed to LONG before Christ's "WAY", Ezekiel must include grave sinners. Daniel 12:1-2 shows that even the evil will be resurrected and returned to the Land. The matter is confirmed by Pentecost were there were many "PIUS" men from the dispersion in Jerusalem form diverse countries. Why were thy not in Israel?

3. Jumping ahead of Romans 2, Romans 11 is a serious indictment against "ALL ISRAEL". They are "concluded in unbelief by God until the times of the Gentiles be full" That is, Israel, as a recognized Nation by the Holy Spirit remains in unbelief till the end of the age, and God's forgiveness of their sins is pure grace.

The matter is certainly not simple.

[luigi]

19 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

 

3. Jumping ahead of Romans 2, Romans 11 is a serious indictment against "ALL ISRAEL". They are "concluded in unbelief by God until the times of the Gentiles be full" That is, Israel, as a recognized Nation by the Holy Spirit remains in unbelief till the end of the age, and God's forgiveness of their sins is pure grace.

The matter is certainly not simple.

Hello AdHoc,

From what I read in your statement, it appears you believe "all Jews in the land of Israel", will at the end of the age be forgiven for their sins. If so, your perspective contradicts faith, and is based on flesh inheritance. Your perspective also contradicts what the Lord clearly states in Isaiah 65, where those who are called Jews to whom the Lord stretches out His arms all day for them to recognize Him, but do not (Isaiah 65:1-2);--will upon the Lords return be slain (Isaiah 65:15). Not saved as you claim.

Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name (a Christian nation). 2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3 

Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Edited April 24 by luigi

[RdJ]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

An original definition for a Jew was for an individual who resided in Judea, and thus were known as Judeans. Likewise, Gentiles, does not mean anyone who is not a Jew, but instead is in regards to unbelievers. True believers are not Gentiles.

You are nevertheless partially correct;-- believers when gathered from the four winds will be called by another name, other than Jew (Isaiah 65:15).

Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Paul calls em gentiles.

 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their [c]fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles

That's just a thing christians invented, to call themselves the holy chosen ones and an unbeliever a heathen. But that's nowhere in the Bible and God was jealous because they had these demon gods so He would go to the foolish nations to make them jealous and get them back.

If Jerusalem does not accept Jesus He will not come back.

Matthew 23

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Acts 1:6‭-‬8 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/act.1.6-8.NKJV

https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/a-deadly-anti-israel-theological-error/ :

They inquired, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

He replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth” (vv. 6-8).

In other words, that’s a good question, and it certainly makes sense in light of everything we’ve been talking about, but the timing of when that will happen—when God will “restore the kingdom to Israel”—is not of your concern right now. You must concentrate on fulfilling the Great Commission with the help of the Spirit’s power.

But that’s not how John Calvin interpreted Jesus’ reply. As noted by Dr. Paul R. Wilkinson in his book Understanding Christian Zionism, Calvin stated that there “‘were “as many errors … as words’ in the disciples’ question concerning Israel’s restoration. This, he believed, showed ‘how bad scholars they were under so good a Master,’ and therefore ‘when he [Jesus] saith, you shall receive power, he admonisheth them of their imbecility.'”

Wilkinson also notes, “At the 5th International Sabeel Conference in 2004 [this is an anti-Zionist conference], Mitri Raheb denounced the disciples as ‘very narrow-minded,’ ‘nationalistic,’ and ‘blinded’ for asking such a question.”

To be candid, interpretations like these are nothing more than exegetical nonsense, standing the biblical text on its head.

For example, if the disciples had said to Jesus, “Lord, is this the time for us to take up swords and behead our enemies?” He would not have replied, “It’s not for you to know the time for beheading that the Father has determined. You just concentrate on preaching the gospel.”

Hardly! Instead, He would have rebuked them in no uncertain terms.

But that’s not what He did here, despite the fact that His words are constantly interpreted as if He had said, “You idiots! Don’t you know that I’m through with Israel? Don’t you know that the church has replaced Israel? Have I been with you so long and you still don’t get it?”

Instead, He simply told them it was not for them to know exactly when the Father would restore the kingdom to Israel (something that Jesus and Peter and Paul affirmed; see Matthew 19:28; Acts 3:19-21; Romans 11:28-29; 15:8); their mission was to be His witnesses.

Unfortunately, in our day, as we are seeing an increasing number of Christians turning against the modern state of Israel—and I don’t simply mean that they are criticizing Israel when Israel deserves criticism but that they are rejecting it as a prophetic fulfillment in any sense of the word, also embracing the Palestinian narrative of Israel as an evil occupier and claiming that no prophetic promises remain to the Jewish people as a nation—we are seeing the seeds of Jew hatred being planted again in the hearts of many of these believers. Their hostility to Israel is hardly a secret.

Be careful, people of God!

History could well repeat itself—to the reproach of the name of Jesus, to the disgrace of the church, and to the spiritual and physical harm of the Jewish people—unless we get our theology right.

You have been forewarned.

Ezekiel 37

37 The hand of the Lord came upon me and brought me out in the Spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones. 2 Then He caused me to pass by them all around, and behold, there were very many in the open valley; and indeed they were very dry. 3 And He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

So I answered, “O Lord God, You know.”

4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 Thus says the Lord God to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6 I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.

9 Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the [a]breath, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” ’ ” 10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.

11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

One Kingdom, One King

15 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

 

 

Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up. After two days He will revive us; On the third day He will raise us up, That we may live in His sight.
Hosea 6:1‭-‬2 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/hos.6.1-2.NKJV

 

“The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.
Zechariah 12:7‭-‬14 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/zec.12.7-14.NKJV

 

Jeremiah 31

Thus says the Lord,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The Lord of hosts is His name):

36 “If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the Lord,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”

37 Thus says the Lord:

“If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the Lord.

Isaiah 66

Hear the word of the Lord,
You who tremble at His word:
“Your brethren who hated you,
Who cast you out for My name’s sake, said,
‘Let the Lord be glorified,
That we may see your joy.’
But they shall be ashamed.”

6 The sound of noise from the city!
A voice from the temple!
The voice of the Lord,
Who fully repays His enemies!

7 “Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.
9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?” says the Lord.
“Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?” says your God.

 

 

Edited April 24 by RdJ

[luigi]

10 minutes ago, RdJ said:

Paul calls em gentiles.

 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their [c]fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles

That's just a thing christians invented, to call themselves the holy chosen ones and an unbeliever a heathen. But that's nowhere in the Bible and God was jealous because they had these demon gods so He would go to the foolish nations to make them jealous and get them back.

 

 

 

You are correct, Paul does include believers calling them Gentiles. But then again, Paul also calls believers as true Jews who are circumcised in heart, while Paul also calls physically circumcised Jews who are not circumcised in heart, as not real Jews (Romans 2:28-29). 

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.