Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming

[Progressive Truth]

On 6/24/2024 at 8:51 PM, JoeCanada said:

Here is something else one should consider.

The main harvest (resurrection/rapture) in Revelation 14, Jesus is shown to be wearing a "golden crown".

Rev 14:14    "Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand"

Now ..... 

Compare this to Revelation 19:11-12: ....... "And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.

His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself."

Here, in Rev 19, Jesus is seen with many diadems on His head, and He is not harvesting the earth with a sharp sickle in His hand, He is waging war with a sword coming out of His mouth.

These are major differences one should consider. 

Joe, you apparently are not aware of a fundamental principal God used in giving us apocalyptic prophecy, “repetition and enlargement.” Meaning that previous prophecies are often repeated but with different symbols to provide us with expanded insights. 

In my earlier post I demonstrated that the premise of you interpretation is invalid because it is based on an invalid hermeneutic. I used Dan, 2 prophecy which laid out many kingdoms starting with Babylon. Metals were used starting with gold representing Babylon followed by silver, representing Medo- Persia and so forth. By using metals of lesser value  God was revealing that as kingdoms followed kingdoms, their knowledge of God would become less and less. 

In Dan. 7, the same progression of kingdoms is laid out, using the symbols of beast. The first beast (Babylon) looked like a Lion with wings of an eagle, symbolizes strength with swiftness. With the wings plucked it was made to stand on its feet. The king paid no attention to God, by way of Daniel, and became arrogant and self -sufficient. However, in time the king recognized the sovereign authority of God. His grandson did not, and God took down the Kingdom.

The second beast (Med-Persia) looked like a bear, one shoulder higher that the other. This symbolism indicated by way of historical facts that the Persians would ascend higher than the Medes. When this beast emerged from the sea it had three ribs between its teeth. These ribs again by way of historical fact represent Lydia, Egypt, and Babylon resisting the bear’s quest for dominion, naturally. 

These examples are just a few of how the principal of repetition and enlargement are too increase our understanding of those original literal kingdoms, not to be misunderstood as different kingdoms, and because added symbolism is given, greater insights of each kingdom can be known.   

In your interpretation you are comparing the teaching of Jesus and others   which are more literal, then the highly symbolic prophecy of Rev. 19. To show that Rev. 19, is more symbolic note in vs. 12, “His eyes are like blazing fire.” Vs.15, “Coming out of His mouth a sharp sword. Certainly you don’t believe theses is literal. Vs 17, the birds are invited to eat the flesh of kings, generals and mighty horses. I’m not denying this battle, and like you believe, Jesus most likely will come seated on His thrown. And as He draws closer to earth the wicked will try to destroy Christ and his angles, but not on horse back but rather using missiles and rockets. My points here is most likely you don’t believe everything in this prophecy is literal, so why Christ and his army coming on literal horses?

Consider this last point, which will take some explaining but It is important that you understand the bigger picture. The Father wrote the Book of Life before anything was created because only He has foreknowledge. In it is recorded the lives of all who are given life. Thus the name, “book of Life.” Those who would refuse salvation were crossed out, but their lives story and choices remain as a record. Those choosing salvation are not crossed out and their life story and choices remain on record also. The book was sealed with seven seals and the last seal will be opened during the GWTJ, end of the thousand years, Nobody is judged using the book, of life, but instead out of the books. (of deeds, Rev. 20:12)  The reason the Father wrote the book of life and sealed it up until after the GWTJ is to prove that even though He has foreknowledge, He never uses it to control His creation. Everyones freedom to chose will never be violated.

According to Rev. 4&5, and Dan. 7, a heavenly court room event took place in 1798. At that moment in time a search of the universe by angles was made and only Jesus met the qualifications the Father required for someone to take the book of Life and open it’s seals. 

 The seven seals are seven campaigns similar to our political campaigns today. To make us aware of the candidate and their plains. Thus the Father designed that as each seal is opened a greater revelation of Jesus comes into focus, to reveal that Jesus is a deity just like Him and is worthy of our worship, which most of mankind does not realize.

The first was opened in 1798, at the end of the 1260 years of the little horn power (papacy) of Daniel 7, which God had allotted it to war against the saints (Rev.7:23-26) This period of time is referred by historians as the “Dark Ages.” A time when the papacy controlled both civil and religious power over Western Europe. It had power over the Kings. And millions of Christians were martyred for taking a stance against the corruption of the church. During this time the Holy Spirit was moving on the hearts and minds of the Protestants reformers to restore the gospel in its original form, and purify the church. 

Too, during this courtroom event in heaven the Father recused Himself from control of the universe and placed Jesus on the thrown because the Father has predetermined that Jesus, acting as judge/High priest  during the Judgement of the dead, (since He has experienced our struggles) to determine who shall make up His kingdom, when He returns to gather up the saints at His return.

With this information in mind lets now consider the opening of the first seal. It could be summed up it four words, “The salvation of Jesus.” 

After the power of the papacy was wounded in 1798, the Holy Spirit put a compelling desire within Protestants to broadcast salvation through faith in Christ around the world. When it comes to revealing all that Jesus Christ is, the doctrine of salvation through faith in Christ (justification and sanctification) is the first and greatest teaching of Christ. The bow carried in the rider’s hand is not a weapon of war as artists commonly portray it. The Greek word toxon indicates the bow is made of fabric which indicates the bow carried in the rider’s hand is a winner’s ribbon. This bow indicates the victory that is given to everyone who abides in Christ. 

Too, and this is my whole point of this spiel on the seals. Note very carefully that the white horse in this prophecy symbolizes strength, and  victory, just as conquering kings rode on white horses. Considering this,  would in not be appropriate that God would use this same symbolism in Rev. 19, to reveal the results of this campaign and the return of a victorious Jesus riding a white horse to destroy His enemies and claim His victorious saints?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2024 by Progressive Truth
spelling errors

[JoeCanada]

2 hours ago, Progressive Truth said:

Joe, you apparently are not aware of a fundamental principal God used in giving us apocalyptic prophecy, “repetition and enlargement.” Meaning that previous prophecies are often repeated but with different symbols to provide us with expanded insights. 

In my earlier post I demonstrated that the premise of you interpretation is invalid because it is based on an invalid hermeneutic. I used Dan, 2 prophecy which laid out many kingdoms starting with Babylon. Metals were used starting with gold representing Babylon followed by silver, representing Medo- Persia and so forth. By using metals of lesser value  God was revealing that as kingdoms followed kingdoms, their knowledge of God would become less and less. 

In Dan. 7, the same progression of kingdoms is laid out, using the symbols of beast. The first beast (Babylon) looked like a Lion with wings of an eagle, symbolizes strength with swiftness. With the wings plucked it was made to stand on its feet. The king paid no attention to God, by way of Daniel, and became arrogant and self -sufficient. However, in time the king recognized the sovereign authority of God. His grandson did not, and God took down the Kingdom.

The second beast (Med-Persia) looked like a bear, one shoulder higher that the other. This symbolism indicated by way of historical facts that the Persians would ascend higher than the Medes. When this beast emerged from the sea it had three ribs between its teeth. These ribs again by way of historical fact represent Lydia, Egypt, and Babylon resisting the bear’s quest for dominion, naturally. 

These examples are just a few of how the principal of repetition and enlargement are too increase our understanding of those original literal kingdoms, not to be misunderstood as different kingdoms, and because added symbolism is given, greater insights of each kingdom can be known.   

In your interpretation you are comparing the teaching of Jesus and others   which are more literal, then the highly symbolic prophecy of Rev. 19. To show that Rev. 19, is more symbolic note in vs. 12, “His eyes are like blazing fire.” Vs.15, “Coming out of His mouth a sharp sword. Certainly you don’t believe theses is literal. Vs 17, the birds are invited to eat the flesh of kings, generals and mighty horses. I’m not denying this battle, and like you believe, Jesus most likely will come seated on His thrown. And as He draws closer to earth the wicked will try to destroy Christ and his angles, but not on horse back but rather using missiles and rockets. My points here is most likely you don’t believe everything in this prophecy is literal, so why Christ and his army coming on literal horses?

Consider this last point, which will take some explaining but It is important that you understand the bigger picture. The Father wrote the Book of Life before anything was created because only He has foreknowledge. In it is recorded the lives of all who are given life. Thus the name, “book of Life.” Those who would refuse salvation were crossed out, but their lives story and choices remain as a record. Those choosing salvation are not crossed out and their life story and choices remain on record also. The book was sealed with seven seals and the last seal will be opened during the GWTJ, end of the thousand years, Nobody is judged using the book, of life, but instead out of the books. (of deeds, Rev. 20:12)  The reason the Father wrote the book of life and sealed it up until after the GWTJ is to prove that even though He has foreknowledge, He never uses it to control His creation. Everyones freedom to chose will never be violated.

According to Rev. 4&5, and Dan. 7, a heavenly court room event took place in 1798. At that moment in time a search of the universe by angles was made and only Jesus met the qualifications the Father required for someone to take the book of Life and open it’s seals. 

 The seven seals are seven campaigns similar to our political campaigns today. To make us aware of the candidate and their plains. Thus the Father designed that as each seal is opened a greater revelation of Jesus comes into focus, to reveal that Jesus is a deity just like Him and is worthy of our worship, which most of mankind does not realize.

The first was opened in 1798, at the end of the 1260 years of the little horn power (papacy) of Daniel 7, which God had allotted it to war against the saints (Rev.7:23-26) This period of time is referred by historians as the “Dark Ages.” A time when the papacy controlled both civil and religious power over Western Europe. It had power over the Kings. And millions of Christians were martyred for taking a stance against the corruption of the church. During this time the Holy Spirit was moving on the hearts and minds of the Protestants reformers to restore the gospel in its original form, and purify the church. 

Too, during this courtroom event in heaven the Father recused Himself from control of the universe and placed Jesus on the thrown because the Father has predetermined that Jesus, acting as judge/High priest  during the Judgement of the dead, (since He has experienced our struggles) to determine who shall make up His kingdom, when He returns to gather up the saints at His return.

With this information in mind lets now consider the opening of the first seal. It could be summed up it four words, “The salvation of Jesus.” 

After the power of the papacy was wounded in 1798, the Holy Spirit put a compelling desire within Protestants to broadcast salvation through faith in Christ around the world. When it comes to revealing all that Jesus Christ is, the doctrine of salvation through faith in Christ (justification and sanctification) is the first and greatest teaching of Christ. The bow carried in the rider’s hand is not a weapon of war as artists commonly portray it. The Greek word toxon indicates the bow is made of fabric which indicates the bow carried in the rider’s hand is a winner’s ribbon. This bow indicates the victory that is given to everyone who abides in Christ. 

Too, and this is my whole point of this spiel on the seals. Note very carefully that the white horse in this prophecy symbolizes strength, and  victory, just as conquering kings rode on white horses. Considering this,  would in not be appropriate that God would use this same symbolism in Rev. 19, to reveal the results of this campaign and the return of a victorious Jesus riding a white horse to destroy His enemies and claim His victorious saints?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brother....

 I don't buy into all this SDA stuff.

The 1260 days are days, not years.

The seals were not opened 2 hundred plus years ago. They will be opened in the future.

The first seal is not "The salvation of Jesus". 

And.... the fourth kingdom is not Rome.

And I don't see the little horn, ie antichrist as the papacy.

There is just too much that I don't agree with in your response.

[JoeCanada]

On 9/5/2024 at 4:21 PM, Progressive Truth said:

So, are you willing to say here, on this forum, based on your hermeneutic, that these two visions are not speaking of the same kingdoms?

Yes, that is correct.

[Progressive Truth]

On 9/6/2024 at 11:19 PM, JoeCanada said:

The seals were not opened 2 hundred plus years ago. They will be opened in the future.

The first seal is not "The salvation of Jesus". 

And.... the fourth kingdom is not Rome.

And I don't see the little horn, ie antichrist as the papacy.

Would you share what you believe the seals have too do with, and what we can expect when the first one does open?

Too, if you will, what do you think was the forth kingdom and the "little horn" that came out of it?