Should the church apologize to atheists?

[choir loft]

On 6/9/2024 at 11:01 AM, RdJ said:

If you think America is bad have you seen the Netherlands? But Sodom would have remained if those miracles had been done there, so I have hope for the Netherlands.

Ken Peters saw that there would be places in America that would completely convert during the trib. 

I have no idea who Ken Peters pretends to be.   He's probably among the current crop of false prophets .... pandering his tripe to gullible religious types....for profit, not prophet.

Israel is at the heart of ALL Biblical prophecy.  

Israel is the pivot point of prophecy, not America, not Europe, not Russia and certainly not the far east. That's it and that's all.   Other nations are only footnotes in the Biblical narrative.  From the first word of Genesis to the last word of Revelation its about ISRAEL - none other.  Once that FACT is established all interpretations can be placed in one of two major categories;  truth or rubbish.

That being said, the Tribulation has already happened AND IT HAPPENED TO THE JEWS....per the Bible, not some back woods self-proclaimed Nazi loving false prophet.

A number of prophecies pointed to a time of severe trouble, or tribulation depending upon the English translation being consulted.  Jeremiah called it tribulation.  Daniel hinted it would last 7 years.   Jesus said it would only happen ONCE.

Most people who embrace the future tribulation theory call Christ a liar as well as His prophets.  They cannot let go of the lie they've swallowed, so any other source of information is rejected without consideration - or PROOF.

Nazi Germany implemented its policy of extremist persecution of Jews in 1938.  It lasted until 1945, a period of 7 years.  Halfway through this period (January 1942) Reinhard Heydrich, chief of Nazi secret police held the Wannsee Conference.  This conference discussed and implemented murder of Jews on an industrial scale - with industrial preferences to materials and transportation.  This increased speed in massacre of innocent Jews was called 'The Final Solution'.

THE SHAME OF IT ALL is that antisemitic American Christians deny the whole thing.  

Instead they either deny it happened at all, or they look forward to a time when MORE JEWS WILL NEEDLESSLY DIE.  Fanatic Nazi types would agree with them completely. 

"Places in America that would completely convert"?   Have you been to New York City recently?  

If anyone wears a Kippa or demonstrates the clothing style of an orthodox Jew on NYC streets they are spat upon.  I've been told as much by people who've experienced it. The possibility of a severe beating is common as well.  

We aren't discussing doctrine any more.  

We're talking about overt hostility and bloodshed.  

New York City is now a godless metropolis as are most major cities in America.  Don't believe me?  Go there and see for yourself! The United States is now a nation in revolt against the Almighty and we shall certainly reap the penalty for turning our backs upon His grace.

Most churches have betrayed the gospel.  

Their leaders absolutely refuse to preach teach or otherwise promote Biblical concepts such as REPENTANCE or Mosaic LAW apart from which nobody can be saved. I've been told this personally by church leaders.

Mr. Peters is dead wrong for two reasons.  First is that the Tribulation has already happened. Second is that nobody seems to preach Biblical principles any more.  

The Gay Agenda has swept through all the major denominations, with the possible exception of Baptists.  The gospel has been betrayed and no spirit from God will visit our congregations for revival.  The times of the gentiles are OVER.  (Luke 21:24)  Its all about blessings upon Israel now.  

It is Israel that will experience a revival.  (Actually its beginning to happen NOW.)

If the reader wants to know what's really going on, then one would be well advised to watch the seasons.....not some braindead YouTube preacher.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (Isaiah 6:9-10)

Edited June 13, 2024 by choir loft

[Neighbor]

10 minutes ago, choir loft said:

If the reader wants to know what's really going on, then one would be well advised to watch the seasons.....not some braindead YouTube preacher.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (Isaiah 6:9-10)

Ha, that's a funny one. Thanks for the chuckle. Might ought to change the  tagline to  ..."hammering away on the internet."

 

10 minutes ago, choir loft said:

From the first word of Genesis to the last word of Revelation its about ISRAEL - none other.

Don't think so, for the Bible is about the scarlet thread of redemption. From beginning to end it is the reveal of Yeshua. 

[choir loft]

1 minute ago, Neighbor said:

Ha, that's a funny one. Should changeyour tagline to ..."from the internet."

 

Don't think so, for the Bible is about the scarlet thread of redemption. From beginning to end it is the reveal of Yeshua. 

Oh really?   WHO IS Y'SHUAH?

He is KING OF THE JEWS, not pope of the church or president of the EU or highest magistrate of the USA.

I'll repeat it KING OF THE JEWS.

The entire narrative of the Bible is about Jews and the coming King.

Do you have someone else in mind to fill that role?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[RdJ]

56 minutes ago, choir loft said:

I have no idea who Ken Peters pretends to be.  

"Places in America that would completely convert"?   Have you been to New York City recently?  

He had a dream in the 80s about the trib and because of it he got saved. In the dream his head got cut off. He's now in heaven. He saw I think it was 10 places or zones in America. Over the world he saw places instantly get saved and others went in darkness. It is in Revelation the uncountable multitude. He knew nothing about it. He just got a dream.

Jesus said Sodom would have repented if those miracles had happened there, so there's hope.

 

Edited June 13, 2024 by RdJ

[Neighbor]

4 minutes ago, choir loft said:

KING OF THE JEWS

He is King of Kings.

He is Lord of Lords. He is creator of all that has been created.

" Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and long suffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; and art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

 

 

[RdJ]

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

[RdJ]

I can't find it. Only this: This great outpouring of God’s Spirit was tremendous and very widespread.  Whole nations were being brought into the Kingdom of God.  It only lasted a very short time.  I was not clearly shown the time-frame, possibly six months.  

And in 2019 he said that he had to go to 50 capital cities of states in America to pray and intercede for each state.

[Retrobyter]

On 6/6/2024 at 9:17 AM, RdJ said:

I just saw a tv program from the evangelical broadcast here called Adieu God (Goodbye God) in which they talk with Dutch actors, comedians whatever about why they left God. This was an interview with a filmmaker. He used to be catholic. Was raised catholic, but when he was 12 he had to go to the deacon to help in the church service and he said: you're too late and BAM smacked him in the face hard and he left his costume there and went home and never returned and his parents understood. His mom had to stop his dad who jumped on his bike wanting to smack that deacon. His dad lost his faith, so his mom prayed even more, he said. He was now atheist and sure that God didn't exist and why all the suffering. If he would go to heaven he would smack God in the face. You're allowed to say that on Dutch tv. Oyyyyy. That interviewer stayed really calm and said: Can you forgive? Hmm that's hard but yes if someone wrongs me and says sorry I can forgive them. He said: What if the pope said he was sorry for that smack you got? Oh yes great. What if the pope pronounced your mom holy? He would go to the service with the whole family and he would even serve there if he had to.

That's the Dutch evangelical broadcast. It made me think. Shouldn't the church or some pastors or reverends or priests who represent it say sorry to atheists for stuff like this? Our king said sorry to Surinam for the slavery. Atheists don't even ask for money. Just as a recognition.

Shalom, RdJ.

Who constitutes "the Church?" Those who overreact and accuse the Church and turn "atheist," the complete "antithesis" of the Body of Christ, should understand that God has NOT authorized the Roman Catholic Church as the EPITOME of the Body of Christ!

Martin Luther understood this and noted NINETY-FIVE WAYS that the Catholic Church FAILED to represent Christ in his time period (the 95 theses nailed to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany, on October 31, 1517)! But ANY human representation is only HUMAN, after all!

Most don't overreact, but will search in other church settings for those who better represent Christ! Throwing out God over the poor representation of God is like "throwing out the baby with the bath water!" 

It's just not sensible to make the matter a dichotomy! It's not an "'either ... or ... " situation. There is a RANGE of options from which to choose! Just a list of other denominations is enough to prove that point!

Edited June 13, 2024 by Retrobyter
to correct some grammar

[Starise]

Some atheists probably deserve an apology. 
 

[RdJ]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, RdJ.

Who constitutes "the Church?" Those who overreact and accuse the Church and turn "atheist," the complete "antithesis" of the Body of Christ, should understand that God has NOT authorized the Roman Catholic Church as the EPITOME of the Body of Christ!

Martin Luther understood this and noted NINETY-FIVE WAYS that the Catholic Church FAILED to represent Christ in his time period (the 95 theses nailed to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany, on October 31, 1517)! But ANY human representation is only HUMAN, after all!

Most don't overreact, but will search in other church settings for those who better represent Christ! Throwing out God over the poor representation of God is like "throwing out the baby with the bath water!" 

It's just not sensible to make the matter a dichotomy! It's not an "'either ... or ... " situation. There is a RANGE of options from which to choose! Just a list of other denominations is enough to prove that point!

He's around 70 years old. At that time there wasn't even an evangelical or pentecostal church I think. That came when T.L. Osborn came to Holland in 1958. He lived in the South where the majority was catholic and in the North the majority was reformed, which was not much better. A Dutch writer who went there became atheist because the reverend came over and said his mother who went to church every week and had just died had gone to hell because she was not elected. My cousin went to such a church. He got totally depressed. His wife took him to an evangelical church. These days yes find another church but then it was more like: this is it.