Should the church apologize to atheists?

[Diaste]

On 6/6/2024 at 7:17 AM, RdJ said:

I just saw a tv program from the evangelical broadcast here called Adieu God (Goodbye God) in which they talk with Dutch actors, comedians whatever about why they left God. This was an interview with a filmmaker. He used to be catholic. Was raised catholic, but when he was 12 he had to go to the deacon to help in the church service and he said: you're too late and BAM smacked him in the face hard and he left his costume there and went home and never returned and his parents understood. His mom had to stop his dad who jumped on his bike wanting to smack that deacon. His dad lost his faith, so his mom prayed even more, he said. He was now atheist and sure that God didn't exist and why all the suffering. If he would go to heaven he would smack God in the face. You're allowed to say that on Dutch tv. Oyyyyy. That interviewer stayed really calm and said: Can you forgive? Hmm that's hard but yes if someone wrongs me and says sorry I can forgive them. He said: What if the pope said he was sorry for that smack you got? Oh yes great. What if the pope pronounced your mom holy? He would go to the service with the whole family and he would even serve there if he had to.

That's the Dutch evangelical broadcast. It made me think. Shouldn't the church or some pastors or reverends or priests who represent it say sorry to atheists for stuff like this? Our king said sorry to Surinam for the slavery. Atheists don't even ask for money. Just as a recognition.

Back in day, not gonna say how long ago, I talked with many atheists in a group.

One of things several of them said is they felt threatened by evangelicals.

When I asked why they answered, "Turn or burn is a threat of death unless you comply." Follow God or be destroyed is what they heard. Not that it did any good but I did apologize, and tried to explain scriptural cause and effect.

Before the time with the atheists I had a mentor, he was part of a radical 'Turn or Burn' sort of evangelism long before I met him. His conclusion was that wasn't love. 

I think the atheists haven't forgotten, and I don't think apologies do any good for most of them. 

The atheist equates religion with the truth of the Most High God and the salvation of Jesus Christ for the most part. Those two concepts are not related, imo. 

[RdJ]

12 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Back in day, not gonna say how long ago, I talked with many atheists in a group.

One of things several of them said is they felt threatened by evangelicals.

When I asked why they answered, "Turn or burn is a threat of death unless you comply." Follow God or be destroyed is what they heard. Not that it did any good but I did apologize, and tried to explain scriptural cause and effect.

Before the time with the atheists I had a mentor, he was part of a radical 'Turn or Burn' sort of evangelism long before I met him. His conclusion was that wasn't love. 

I think the atheists haven't forgotten, and I don't think apologies do any good for most of them. 

The atheist equates religion with the truth of the Most High God and the salvation of Jesus Christ for the most part. Those two concepts are not related, imo. 

They went from one extreme to another. First only hell preachings, here mainly done by the reformed churches. I had to read books for school from angry atheists who were mad at God and the church in the 80s and one made some porn movie. But he had one good point. He went back to his old house where he had lived w his parents and they had a sign on the wall with Love the Lord in English, but translated to Dutch with Serve the Lord. That summed it up quite right. Do this do that or else but no love. And now it's the opposite. Only slimy love. No warnings. Everything is fine. Our christian party, when we had a church we had to quit because from the little that came in they wanted taxes and we only had debts, but with covid they said: oh no those poor sex workers! They need an income now. And they got it.

[Diaste]

44 minutes ago, RdJ said:

They went from one extreme to another. First only hell preachings, here mainly done by the reformed churches. I had to read books for school from angry atheists who were mad at God and the church in the 80s and one made some porn movie. But he had one good point. He went back to his old house where he had lived w his parents and they had a sign on the wall with Love the Lord in English, but translated to Dutch with Serve the Lord. That summed it up quite right. Do this do that or else but no love. And now it's the opposite. Only slimy love. No warnings. Everything is fine. Our christian party, when we had a church we had to quit because from the little that came in they wanted taxes and we only had debts, but with covid they said: oh no those poor sex workers! They need an income now. And they got it.

I still engage them often. They are still angry. But not everyone can hear, I suppose.

Religion is such a blight. It will get straightened out soon enough.

[Neighbor]

36 minutes ago, RdJ said:

They went from one extreme to another. First only hell preachings, here mainly done by the reformed churches. I had to read books for school from angry atheists who were mad at God and the church in the 80s and one made some porn movie. But he had one good point. He went back to his old house where he had lived w his parents and they had a sign on the wall with Love the Lord in English, but translated to Dutch with Serve the Lord. That summed it up quite right. Do this do that or else but no love. And now it's the opposite. Only slimy love. No warnings. Everything is fine. Our christian party, when we had a church we had to quit because from the little that came in they wanted taxes and we only had debts, but with covid they said: oh no those poor sex workers! They need an income now. And they got it.

Interesting punchline.

God is not cuddles the teddy bear here to comfort no matter what. God is to be feared; and with good reason for no individual can live up to God's standard, which is holy perfection, just as He is Holy.

Amazingly God has overcome that impossible to breach hurdle. He has reconciled the impossible.  He sent His son! Yeshua, who came to willingly take on to himself the sin against God of all that have been given to Him by His Father. 

Now that is love! Love that few if any will extend of one's self for another. Yet God has done it.

God is to be feared for He is fearsome in His power. He is to be loved for He first loved those He gave to his Son.

Praise God.

[Neighbor]

4 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I still engage them often. They are still angry. But not everyone can hear, I suppose.

Religion is such a blight. It will get straightened out soon enough.

Praise God for the many  local body's of Christ Jesus  that provide a place of refuge. Refuge from the terrors of this fallen creation. That show the world a better way, the way of our Lord and savior Yeshua.

[RdJ]

36 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Praise God for the many  local body's of Christ Jesus  that provide a place of refuge. Refuge from the terrors of this fallen creation. That show the world a better way, the way of our Lord and savior Yeshua.

I saw a guy on youtube lately. He was from MTV or something apparently. I know him from the Dutch 80s tv. He's Dutch. He was quite popular here. He moved to America. Now he got saved and he found some great church there. He was so enthusiastic. Amazing.

[RdJ]

43 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I still engage them often. They are still angry. But not everyone can hear, I suppose.

Religion is such a blight. It will get straightened out soon enough.

I once was so dumb to go answer 200 questions for the believer on an atheist forum, thinking: lets convert this bunch. Oy. Got the whole group coming at me and they were not happy. Mainly ex christians, even ex pastors. I tried. I was praying for them and I got a dream. I saw little birds in snares, loads on tables in a room and then the overseeer left for a few minutes and I quickly let em all free. I just have to keep praying and not lose hope because they talk so negative.

[Tristen]

On 6/6/2024 at 11:17 PM, RdJ said:

I just saw a tv program from the evangelical broadcast here called Adieu God (Goodbye God) in which they talk with Dutch actors, comedians whatever about why they left God. This was an interview with a filmmaker. He used to be catholic. Was raised catholic, but when he was 12 he had to go to the deacon to help in the church service and he said: you're too late and BAM smacked him in the face hard and he left his costume there and went home and never returned and his parents understood. His mom had to stop his dad who jumped on his bike wanting to smack that deacon. His dad lost his faith, so his mom prayed even more, he said. He was now atheist and sure that God didn't exist and why all the suffering. If he would go to heaven he would smack God in the face. You're allowed to say that on Dutch tv. Oyyyyy. That interviewer stayed really calm and said: Can you forgive? Hmm that's hard but yes if someone wrongs me and says sorry I can forgive them. He said: What if the pope said he was sorry for that smack you got? Oh yes great. What if the pope pronounced your mom holy? He would go to the service with the whole family and he would even serve there if he had to.

That's the Dutch evangelical broadcast. It made me think. Shouldn't the church or some pastors or reverends or priests who represent it say sorry to atheists for stuff like this? Our king said sorry to Surinam for the slavery. Atheists don't even ask for money. Just as a recognition.

God will sometimes use disillusion to weed pretenders out of the church.

The Bible speaks of Christians having an enduring faith. That means every Christian having a conversation with God where you come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the whole world turns against me, and/or mistreats me (including respected Christians) - no matter what befalls me, it's me and You God forever.

The prospective atheists in your provided narrative were mistreated by a representative of the church. If they had known Christ for themselves, this incident would not have hindered their Christian faith. They may have changed congregations - or even left the church altogether, but they would not have rejected Christ. But two of them did reject their Christian faith - demonstrating that they never knew Jesus to begin with.

Those who do not know Christ and know that they don't know Christ are closer to Christ (and truth) than those who think they know Christ, but don't really know Christ. It is therefore better to be an atheist than a pretend Christian.

 

 

[RdJ]

2 minutes ago, Tristen said:

God will sometimes use disillusion to weed pretenders out of the church.

The Bible speaks of Christians having an enduring faith. That means every Christian having a conversation with God where you come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the whole world turns against me, and/or mistreats me (including respected Christians) - no matter what befalls me, it's me and God forever.

The prospective atheists in your provided narrative were mistreated by a representative of the church. If they had known Christ for themselves, this incident would not have hindered their Christian faith. They may have changed congregations - or even left the church altogether, but they would not have rejected Christ. But two of them did reject their Christian faith - demonstrating that they never knew Jesus to begin with.

Thos who do not know Christ and know that they don't know Christ are closer to Christ (and truth) than those who think they know Christ, but don't really know Christ. It is therefore better to be an atheist than a pretend Christian.

 

One of the guys who owned that forum used to be evangelical. He even preached. He wrote a book similar to that of Richard Dawkins. He fell fromhis faith when his church leaders told him that 9/11 was judgement from God. He was just a baby christian if you ask me. I got treated bad in church, but they taught me right. It's never God's fault. That's why I never got mad at God when I backslid.

[Tristen]

8 minutes ago, RdJ said:

He fell fromhis faith when his church leaders told him that 9/11 was judgement from God. He was just a baby christian if you ask me

I'd suggest (admittedly going only by your description) that he was only playing Christian - but internally, looking for a reason (no matter how weak or silly) to walk away from Christianity.

Mark 4:16-19
 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.