When was Satan cast out of heaven down to the earth?

[BlindSeeker]

14 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Not correct. The same exact two words are used at the beginning and at the end of John 4:1 -- "After these things/μετὰ ταῦτα ... after these things/μετὰ ταῦτα."

True, it has been translated "these things" vastly more times that other ways, but it has been translated in KJV 6 times this. But, you still have the wrong verse noted...

 

18 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Jesus must present his blood of sacrifice "for the people" "a second time." Which is why He is portrayed as the Slain Lamb

I respectfully disagree. I think the "without sin" means without a sin offering. Hence when He comes, He is coming to make war with the nations and has a name written, that no man knew, but He himself.  I do believe that His name is relative to His purpose of coming. For his name "Yeshua" meant deliver, "for He shall save His people from their sins." This name I would believe has something to do with God's vengeance...

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

[Stewardofthemystery]

3 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I was just reading in Genesis 3:14. 
 

Doesn’t this tell us when satan was removed from heaven? He is now relegated to the earth until the end of time. 
 

As I mentioned, for me, I have to start at the beginning … 

 

No, it just says the serpent was “cursed,”no mention of Satan/ the Serpent being cast out, just the “man”(Adam)

So he drove out “the man;”and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

[BlindSeeker]

9 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I was just reading in Genesis 3:14. 
 

Doesn’t this tell us when satan was removed from heaven? He is now relegated to the earth until the end of time. 
 

As I mentioned, for me, I have to start at the beginning … 

 

I am more inclined to think and actual serpent which had yielded itself to Satan was cursed, simply by the nature of God's judgment. Simply because God wasn't yet justified in the Spirit of all the accusations Satan made before the angels, and to Eve against Him.

God could curse Adam, Eve, and the Serpent since He created them IMHO after the rebellion in heaven. But as of yet, He had not proved Himself to be worthy of all glory, honor, and power.  But once He did, justified Himself, then Satan was indeed condemned and cast out.

 

[Charlie744]

12 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

No, it just says the serpent was “cursed,”no mention of Satan/ the Serpent being cast out, just the “man”(Adam)

So he drove out “the man;”and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

I thought he was eating the dust of the earth… 

do you really believe sin in the form of satan can be accepted into heaven again?

 

[Charlie744]

8 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

I am more inclined to think and actual serpent which had yielded itself to Satan was cursed, simply by the nature of God's judgment. Simply because God wasn't yet justified in the Spirit of all the accusations Satan made before the angels, and to Eve against Him.

God could curse Adam, Eve, and the Serpent since He created them IMHO after the rebellion in heaven. But as of yet, He had not proved Himself to be worthy of all glory, honor, and power.  But once He did, justified Himself, then Satan was indeed condemned and cast out.

 

I don’t think God has to prove He is worthy to not allow sin in heaven.

I think both Adam and satan were removed at the same time. Now, both walk the earth.

And at the end of time, Jesus will return to the earth and I believe it may be in Revelation that “sin will never rear its ugly head ever again.” Meaning, to me, Gid would never allow sin in heaven and now, He will destroy sin forever that exists on earth. 
 

What do you think? Thanks, Charlie 

[BlindSeeker]

18 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I don’t think God has to prove He is worthy to not allow sin in heaven.

God doesn't have to, of course. But He does.

What was God justified of? Don't you have to discredit your accuser and prover yourself innocent is you are going to convince the jury?

What was He justified of?

[Charlie744]

9 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

God doesn't have to, of course. But He does.

What was God justified of? Don't you have to discredit your accuser and prover yourself innocent is you are going to convince the jury?

What was He justified of?

I am going to leave this one alone... 

[Montana Marv]

And what about Job.  Job 1:6,7 - One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came with them.  The LORD said to Satan, Where have you come from.  Satan answered the LORD; From roaming through the earth and going back and forth on it.

So Satan's primary residence is the Earth, but able to be in Heaven.

Rev 12:12 - Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them.  But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil/Satan has gone down to you.  He is filled with fury, because he knows his time is short.  The last 3 1/2 years or 42 months of the 70th Week.

He has been in Heaven and able to accuse the saints since Pentecost.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Not correct. The same exact two words are used at the beginning and at the end of John 4:1 -- "After these things/μετὰ ταῦτα ... after these things/μετὰ ταῦτα."

The Greek text stands authoritative, not your preferred translation.

I still don't understand where you are coming from.  My 'preferred translation' isn't THE translation at all, it is using the word God used. 

The TRANSLATION from the word 'this' IS the 'these things', isn't it?  It isn't the other way around, is it?   If so, how does that go?


I don't think it was written in the way we speak today for a specific reason.  I believe God uses specific words for specific meanings and that should never be changed especially if it is ever to try to show and/or prove 'what God meant' OVER 'what God wrote'.  As we can see here 'after this' and 'after these things' lead us down two different paths.  Wouldn't that make God the author of confusion?  

Would you agree it was indeed Christ that was found worthy to open the book as the Lamb of God slain, and that came BEFORE the churches in Asia were established?  If you do they you would have to agree that the Word goes into some history before going forth with the future

So, is it my preferred TRANSLATION here or is it yours?  I gotta stick with the word used by God and not the translation of it into my language even if it means we have a different understanding...as we both know...all will be revealed.

If you could please let biblehub know they have made a mistake here so they can correct it because my Greens Interlinear does have it a little different...they have it as 5023...but what does THAT give us?

5023 tauta 
Strong's Concordance
tauta: this; he, she, it
Original Word: ταῦτα
Transliteration: tauta
Phonetic Spelling: (tow'-tah)
Definition: this; he, she, it

with the NASB TRANSLATION of 

 

3778 houtos, hauté, touto

 

Strong's Concordance houtos, hauté, touto: this Original Word: οὗτος, αὕτη, τοῦτο Part of Speech: Demonstrative Pronoun Transliteration: houtos, hauté, touto Phonetic Spelling: (hoo'-tos) Definition: this Usage: this; he, she, it. NAS Exhaustive Concordance Word Origin probably from a redupl. of ho,, used as a demonstrative pronoun Definition  -  this as NASB Translation afterward* (3), especially (1), fact (2), follow* (1), here* (1), hereafter* (1), man (1), now* (1), one (2), one whom (1), partly* (1), person (1), present (1), same (1), so (1), so then* (1), so* (1), some (2), such (2), therefore* (16), these (179), these...things (1), these men (10), these people (1), these things (192), this (737), this man (56), this man's (2), this one (4), this reason* (1), this thing (2), this way (1), this woman (4), this* (1), this...thing (1), those (2), those things (1), very (3), very thing (2), who (2), whom (1).

 

NASB ©	Greek	Strong's	Origin
After	Μετὰ (meta)	3326: with, among, after	a prim. preposition
these things		3778: this	probably from a redupl. of ho,, used as a demonstrative pronoun
I looked,		3708: to see, perceive, attend to	a prim. verb
and behold,	ἰδοὺ (idou)	2400: look, behold	from eidon, used as a demonstrative particle
a door	θύρα (thura)	2374: a door	a prim. word
[standing] open	ἠνεῳγμένη (ēneōgmenē)	455: to open	from ana and oigó (to open)
in heaven,	οὐρανῷ (ouranō)	3772: heaven	a prim. word
and the first	πρώτη (prōtē)	4413: first, chief	contr. superl. of pro
voice	φωνὴ (phōnē)	5456: a voice, sound	probably from phémi
which	ἣν (ēn)	3739: usually rel. who, which, that, also demonstrative this, that	a prim. pronoun
I had heard,	ἤκουσα (ēkousa)	191: to hear, listen	from a prim. word mean. hearing
like	ὡς (ōs)	5613: as, like as, even as, when, since, as long as	adverb from hos,
[the sound] of a trumpet	σάλπιγγος (salpingos)	4536: a trumpet	from salpizó
speaking	λαλούσης (lalousēs)	2980: to talk	from lalos (talkative)
with me, said,	λέγων (legōn)	3004: to say	a prim. verb
"Come	Ἀνάβα (anaba)	305: to go up, ascend	from ana and the same as basis
up here,	ὧδε (ōde)	5602: so, to here, here	demonstrative adverb from hode,
and I will show	δείξω (deixō)	1166: to show	from a prim. root deik-
you what	ἃ (a)	3739: usually rel. who, which, that, also demonstrative this, that	a prim. pronoun
must	δεῖ (dei)	1163: it is necessary	a form of deó
take place	γενέσθαι (genesthai)	1096: to come into being, to happen, to become	from a prim. root gen-
after	μετ’ (met)	3326: with, among, after	a prim. preposition
these things."		3778: this	probably from a redupl. of ho,, used as a demonstrative pronoun

 

 

 

Strong's	Greek	English	Morphology
3326 [e]	Μετὰ Meta	After	Prep
3778 [e]	ταῦτα tauta	these things	DPro-ANP
3708 [e]	εἶδον, eidon	I looked,	V-AIA-1S
2532 [e]	καὶ kai	and	Conj
3708 [e]	ἰδοὺ idou	behold,	V-AMA-2S
2374 [e]	θύρα thyra	a door	N-NFS
455 [e]	ἠνεῳγμένη ēneōgmenē	was standing open	V-RPM/P-NFS
1722 [e]	ἐν en	in	Prep
3588 [e]	τῷ tō	-	Art-DMS
3772 [e]	οὐρανῷ, ouranō	heaven,	N-DMS
2532 [e]	καὶ kai	and	Conj
3588 [e]	ἡ hē	the	Art-NFS
5456 [e]	φωνὴ phōnē	voice	N-NFS
3588 [e]	ἡ hē	-	Art-NFS
4413 [e]	πρώτη prōtē	first	Adj-NFS
3739 [e]	ἣν hēn	that	RelPro-AFS
191 [e]	ἤκουσα ēkousa	I heard	V-AIA-1S
5613 [e]	ὡς hōs	like	Adv
4536 [e]	σάλπιγγος salpingos	a trumpet	N-GFS
2980 [e]	λαλούσης lalousēs	was speaking	V-PPA-GFS
3326 [e]	μετ’ met’	with	Prep
1473 [e]	ἐμοῦ, emou	me,	PPro-G1S
3004 [e]	λέγων legōn	saying,	V-PPA-NMS
305 [e]	Ἀνάβα Anaba	Come up	V-AMA-2S
5602 [e]	ὧδε, hōde	here,	Adv
2532 [e]	καὶ kai	and	Conj
1166 [e]	δείξω deixō	I will show	V-FIA-1S
4771 [e]	σοι soi	to you	PPro-D2S
3739 [e]	ἃ ha	what	RelPro-ANP
1163 [e]	δεῖ dei	it behooves	V-PIA-3S
1096 [e]	γενέσθαι genesthai	to take place	V-ANM
3326 [e]	μετὰ meta	after	Prep
3778 [e]	ταῦτα. tauta	these things.	DPro-ANP

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

And what about Job.  Job 1:6,7 - One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came with them.  The LORD said to Satan, Where have you come from.  Satan answered the LORD; From roaming through the earth and going back and forth on it.

So Satan's primary residence is the Earth, but able to be in Heaven.

Rev 12:12 - Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them.  But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil/Satan has gone down to you.  He is filled with fury, because he knows his time is short.  The last 3 1/2 years or 42 months of the 70th Week.

He has been in Heaven and able to accuse the saints since Pentecost.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Please explain why since Pentecost and what verses lead you to believe Earth is his primary residence.  I think I agree with you here, but I can't recall what verses speak to it.