When was Satan cast out of heaven down to the earth?

[NConly]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

It may, I do not know but the book of Enoch is not in the Bible.

You're right but is mentioned so some were reading it.

[Stewardofthemystery]

13 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

So, there is nothing that is in the Scriptures that tell us he sinned BEFORE the earth and everything was created, so this is a good start.

Personally, I believe Satan had a real problem only when God created Adam and breathed His Holy Spirit into Adam. Now, Adam has God’s holiness or righteousness within him. This holiness or righteousness WAS NOT FOUND IN LUCIFER even though he was the most glorious angel that God created. 
 

But regardless how great he was made, he could NEVER have within him ANY righteousness or holiness. The ONLY place one can find holiness or righteousness is WITHIN GOD. And He is the only one that can give it anyway.

Thus, this was clearly unacceptable to Lucifer… this human being made out of the dirt of the earth has been now made into a living soul with the holiness of God within him. 
 

Lucifer could not accept this and since he had not sinned prior to God’s creation, he would go and be wherever he chose. Since heaven was the only place to “be” prior to the “creation,” he would have been found in heaven.

Jesus said the Devil was a murderer from the very beginning…,

John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

13 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

But after he deceived Adam and caused the fall of God’s holy people (Adam) he would no longer be allowed in heaven. Sin, whether from man or angels can not be in the presence of sin, thus he would be restricted from being in heaven from that time on.

Adam would immediately be moved out of the Garden and I think Lucifer would also be immediately removed from heaven.

Also, both Adam and Lucifer would now die, but neither immediately. Prior to the fall, neither would have died. 
 

But God would immediately put into place a plan of salvation for man. But no such provision for Satan. 
 

Now, both must wander the world outside of the Garden or heaven until the end of time when Satan will be destroyed and man will either return to be with God or destroyed depending on his acceptance of Jesus. 
 

Look forward to anyone’s thoughts…. Charlie
 

 

Satan was not cast out of heaven until Jesus was crucified, when Jesus said “Now shall the prince of this world be cast”  This is all explained in my OP.

We know Satan was not cast when Adam had sinned because Satan is mentioned as being present before God in the book of Job.

Job 1:6

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Also the Devil is shown fighting with the archangel Michael concerning the body of Moses…

Jude 1:9

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Stewardofthemystery

[Charlie744]

13 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Jesus said the Devil was a murderer from the very beginning…,

John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan was not cast out of heaven until Jesus was crucified, when Jesus said “Now shall the prince of this world be cast”  This is all explained in my OP.

We know Satan was not cast when Adam had sinned because Satan is mentioned as being present before God in the book of Job.

Job 1:6

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

 

 

Well, just to respond… again, I have not studied this, but Jesus certainly would know he was a murderer from the beginning… He would have know that even before He created him.

Also, satan did not kill Adam so what did Jesus mean when He said he was a murderer from the beginning? 
 

It might seem like Jesus is indeed telling us he was a murderer - because that was “in him” before He created Adam.. meaning, this might not be a verse that we cab use to determine the timing … 

In Job, it does not tell us this meeting with God was in heaven. Jesus could leave heaven and they could come to where He was but satan may have been kicked out of heaven already. 
 

It is an interesting topic. 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

33 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Also, satan did not kill Adam so what did Jesus mean when He said he was a murderer from the beginning? 

Death is not limited to a physical death, as only to the physical body, but there is also a spiritual death.  It is written the power of life and death is in the tongue.  By causing Adam and Eve “to believe the lie”that they could transgress the command of God and not die, believing the lie of the serpent “deceived them,”and by sin came Death.  Paul is showing the same process here….

Romans 7:11

For “sin,”taking occasion by the commandment, “deceived me,”and by it “slew me.”

33 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

 

In Job, it does not tell us this meeting with God was in heaven. Jesus could leave heaven and they could come to where He was but satan may have been kicked out of heaven already. 
 

It is an interesting topic. 

 

Jesus said His Father was in HEAVEN. Gods throne is in HEAVEN.

Isaiah 66:1

Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

The words of Jesus tells us exactly when Satan was cast out heaven.

 

John 12:31

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
 

“Now” does not mean 4,ooo years prior, nor does “Now” mean 2,000 years after the “NOW”

 

But yet people will still resist the Holy Spirit.

 

 

[Charlie744]

19 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Death is not limited to a physical death, as only to the physical body, but there is also a spiritual death.  It is written the power of life and death is in the tongue.  By causing Adam and Eve “to believe the lie”that they could transgress the command of God and not die, believing the lie of the serpent “deceived them,”and by sin came Death.  Paul is showing the same process here….

Romans 7:11

For “sin,”taking occasion by the commandment, “deceived me,”and by it “slew me.”

Jesus said His Father was in HEAVEN. Gods throne is in HEAVEN.

Isaiah 66:1

Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

The words of Jesus tells us exactly when Satan was cast out heaven.

 

John 12:31

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
 

“Now” does not mean 4,ooo years prior, nor does “Now” mean 2,000 years after the “NOW”

 

But yet people will still resist the Holy Spirit.

 

 

Good stuff! 
 

Just playing the devils advocate here because I do not know the answer because I have not studied it ..

Certainly, God’s throne is in heaven but there is nothing in that verse that tells us He is in heaven at that time. 
 

In John 12:31 I also do no believe it categorically tells us that satan is thrown down “now”… (at that time).

In Daniel, there are more than a few verses that speak or are written like the one in John…

example: in chapter 9, the Messiah will be cut off in the midst of the week. He indeed was crucified 3.5 years into the 7 years (last week). But it also continues to say He will bring an end to the daily sacrifice and offerings. 
 

Most people believe this is referring to the physical sacrifices and offerings WHEN the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD.. but it speaks to the cross - He became the perfect sacrifice and done away with those practiced by the Hews. 
 

Now, can easily mean the same as in chapter 12 of Daniel—- seal up or shut up these words… doesn’t mean to hide them or keep them secret until the end of times. It means to seal them, the prophecies are complete. They are now written as they are in heaven. There will be no more prophecies before the coming of the Messiah.

just my thoughts. 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

40 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Certainly, God’s throne is in heaven but there is nothing in that verse that tells us He is in heaven at that time. 
 

Why would you think the angels of God are appearing before Him on earth, and not in heaven, unless you are trying to push your own point of view?

Satan/ the Devil is the accuser of the brethren….

Jude 1:9

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with “the devil”he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”

 

Where was Satan when he was accusing the brethren ….

Revelation 12:10

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for “the accuser of our brethren is cast down,”which accused them “before our God day and night.”

 

Again God’s throne is in HEAVEN

 

 

40 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

In John 12:31 I also do no believe it categorically tells us that satan is thrown down “now”… (at that time).

Then you don’t believe the words of Jesus.

40 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

In Daniel, there are more than a few verses that speak or are written like the one in John…

example: in chapter 9, the Messiah will be cut off in the midst of the week. He indeed was crucified 3.5 years into the 7 years (last week). But it also continues to say He will bring an end to the daily sacrifice and offerings. 
 

Most people believe this is referring to the physical sacrifices and offerings WHEN the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD.. but it speaks to the cross - He became the perfect sacrifice and done away with those practiced by the Hews. 
 

Now, can easily mean the same as in chapter 12 of Daniel—- seal up or shut up these words… doesn’t mean to hide them or keep them secret until the end of times. It means to seal them, the prophecies are complete. They are now written as they are in heaven. There will be no more prophecies before the coming of the Messiah.

just my thoughts. 

 

Yes Jesus did end the need for the animal sacrifices.  But the animal sacrifices continued until the Temple was destroyed in 70 ad when the AOD took place.

But what a lot of people do not understand is that the “daily sacrifice” with animals was just a “similitude”of the true spiritual “daily sacrifice” of the saints that was to come.

Which is why it is written …

Daniel 8:12

And an host was given him “against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,” and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

 

Gods saints are called to present themselves as a “living sacrifice”.  We are called to “die daily” and take up our cross “daily”

 

 

Edited June 12, 2024 by Stewardofthemystery

[BlindSeeker]

To me, the casting out of Satan correlates with the Jesus Christ being glorified, and it all pivots around truths in the verse below - 

1st Timothy 3:16 – For without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

For we know that Satan sinned and was condemned by God - 

Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Eze 28:14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. 16 "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. 17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you.

First question, if Satan was condemned, then why was he there in the garden tempting Adam and Eve? 

Second question, if Lucifer was sentenced to hell, then why was he running around loose, or even permitted back into God’s heavenly throne room as we see in Job? 

Now, it is way too much to present all that here, but I have studied it for decades and my results are available here (with audio) for any interested. A good part of it has to do with Jesus being "made lower than the angels..."

https://gates-of-the-city.com/chapter-20/ - Justified in the Spirit
 

[enoob57]

There seems to be a progression in satans fall Ezk 28:14-19 as soon as iniquity was found in him God cast him down from his exalted place ... We know in Job 1:6 he still had access where the other angels came... The position of satan might be what Jesus was referring to here
Luke 10:18 (KJV)

[18] And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Certainly, his mode of work is restricted to the earth now

1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)

[8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

The timing of Satan’s expulsion from heaven is a matter of debate. Some argue that it happened at the death of Christ, while others believe it will occur during the end-times war in heaven. Revelation 12:9 speaks of Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven to the earth, but the exact date remains uncertain.

Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection, and ascension defeated Satan’s ability to accuse God’s people, leading to his expulsion from God’s presence forever...

[Stewardofthemystery]

We know by the words of God that Satan/ the Dragon was allowed in HEAVEN until Christ was crucified and ascended up to Heaven.

Revelation 12:7

And there was war “in heaven:” Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

 

So if Satan/the Dragon was not allowed access to HEAVEN, how can the Dragon be fighting a war in HEAVEN if he is not allowed to be in HEAVEN?

 

All the scriptures I posted in the OP agree to the exact timing of when Satan was cast out of HEAVEN.

[Stewardofthemystery]

The war in heaven that resulted in the casting out of Satan and his angels happened right at the time of Jesus’(man child) Death and resurrection where Jesus ascended to God the Fathers throne….

Revelation 12:5

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

Right after that is when we see the casting out of Satan….

 

 

Revelation 12:7-9

 

King James Version

 

 

⁷ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

⁸ And prevailed not; ((?neither was their place found any more in heaven.))

⁹ And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: “he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him”