When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[Stewardofthemystery]

3 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Depends. It happened I think in 135 BC, happened again in 70 AD, and will happen yet again when the Anti Christ desecrates the temple yet to be built. 

The antichrist spirit is a single lying spirit that has, and still works “in”many deceivers.  This spirit is not a man, but it does dwell in “the temple” that God made for himself to dwell in.

1 Corinthians 3:17

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

The AOD, or the abomination that causes desolation is not an event that speaks of a destruction of a physical structure no matter how important that structure WAS. 
 
There are a few things to think about:

1) the Temple was already completely destroyed by the Babylonians in 587 BC. This resulted as punishment from God along with the 70 years in captivity. But it was a temporary punishment based on the number of years Israel failed to honor the land Sabbath.

2) The Temple, Sanctuary, holy feast days, etc., were a type and shadow of the coming Messiah. His arrival and crucifixion fulfilled all of these elements. The Sanctuary, the animal sacrifices, the offerings, the Temple would be done away with or thrown down. Their mission in His plan of salvation was fulfilled. They would never again have the presence of God within them - the Temple was now just a common structure in God’s eyes (however, they all were still considered holy in the eyes of those who rejected Jesus— but that does not change how God views them).

3) The most abominable act in the history of man is the Jews rejection of their Messiah and His crucifixion. The first Temple was already destroyed from disobedience of the Sabbath, thus the second time in 70 AD would be no different than the first time with the exception it will never be rebuilt by God again- it’s mission had been fulfilled.

Consequently, the “abomination” is so much greater than disobeying God. It is beyond anything we could do against our God. 
 

4) This “abominable act” is not a destroying of a Temple made of brick and mirror but a Temple made of our Messiah. They destroyed the Messiah on the cross. 
 
This abominable act, which will never be repeated or found anywhere in our history books other than the cross, is the event / the act that would cause God to become desolate with His people for the next 2000 years (time of the Gentiles). God would spiritually separate Himself from Israel as punishment for their rejection and crucifixion of Jesus. 
 

5) When the time of the Gentiles is finished, God will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people and they will recognize the One they have pierced. They will then go out into the world, just as Paul, and preach the Word of God AND the Testimony of Jesus to the world for 3.5 years. This will also complete the 4th and final Great Jubilee cycle of 490 years and bring in the return of the Messiah. 
 

6) No act of man could permanently destroy the Temple, the Sanctuary, the holy feast days, etc. God had punished His people and everything WAS destroyed- the first Temple, but this was all within God’s plans. Only God could have restored everything as it was (70 weeks of years prophecy) revealing He had control over everything! God would ensure everything was restored as it was before Babylon and the last piece of His “restoration process” would be the restoration of the Ark of the Covenant back in the Sanctuary in the form of the Messiah who would arrive on the first day of the 70th week of the prophecy. Now, everything, including the presence of God had been fully restored. 

God had demonstrated the complete destruction of the Temple was not something He would allow to be destroyed (permanently). For two reasons: God wanted to show that these were important physical elements not because they were “the Temple or the Sanctuary,” but because of what God had brought into them. Secondly, they still had an important role to fulfill in His plan of salvation. They had to he restored BEFORE His arrival in the 70th week of the prophecy. God could not allow the permanent destruction of these physical objects until they fulfilled their mission. After the cross they had no further importance to Him. They were just brick and mortar. 
 

But the rejection and crucifixion of the Messiah IS the abomination or the most abominable act His people could possibly do against their God that would cause Him to spiritually abandon His people. The cross is the AOD. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because of all the abominations of the children of Israel the “city and the Temple (sanctuary)” was to be destroyed per the words of God.  This is the fulfilling of prophecy…

Daniel 9:26

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that (((shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; )))and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

Jesus told us it was the Temple and buildings He and the apostles were LOOKING AT WITH THEIR OWN EYES!

 

 

[Charlie744]

32 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Because of all the abominations of the children of Israel the “city and the Temple (sanctuary)” was to be destroyed per the words of God.  This is the fulfilling of prophecy…

Daniel 9:26

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that (((shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; )))and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

Jesus told us it was the Temple and buildings He and the apostles were LOOKING AT WITH THEIR OWN EYES!

 

 

You are right, but would you please take a look below that discusses this particular issue. (It is found in my commentary on Daniel that was recently released).

the "abomination that causes desolation"

Among the many theories that have been offered, interpretations often center on the physical destruction of the temple. These varied theories, spanning different time periods, associate the "Temple" with several key events: the temple's destruction in 70 AD, the defilement during the time of Antiochus Epiphanes about 200 years earlier, or the anticipated destruction of a supposedly rebuilt temple 2000 years in the future. However, it is important to understand that this phrase does not pertain to the physical destruction of the temple, regardless of the time period in question. Instead, the focus should be on the deeper spiritual implications and the fulfillment of the prophecy through the Messiah's redemptive work.

The most widely accepted interpretation involves the Jesuits' infamous seven-year tribulation theory, or gap theory, which projects the last week of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy about 2000 years into the future. Within this framework, the "one who makes desolate" is misidentified as a mythical anti-Christ figure that has yet to come. However, the book of Daniel, particularly the messianic prophecies in Chapter 9, focuses on the coming Messiah and His plan of salvation for the Jews and all of humanity. There is no mention of an anti-Christ figure in the book of Daniel. Instead, there is a very real and dangerous little horn revealed in the last six chapters, who has been present on earth for the past 1500 years. You just cannot miss him—that is, unless you want to!

Verse 27c speaks about the Messiah. He is the "One" who will cause the desolation. The "abomination or transgression that causes desolation" is the cross; it is the crucifixion that will cause this complete "desolation."

The crucifixion of Jesus, the Messiah and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, stands as the most horrifying, evil, and incomprehensible event in the history of mankind. This is the true meaning of the “abomination that causes desolation.” It surpasses any act of disobedience, transgression, or inequity that the Jews or humanity could ever commit against their God. Can there be a greater injustice, a more evil act, or a more horrendous definition of an "abomination"?

Limiting our interpretation of this profound term to the mere destruction of a physical building, especially one that fulfilled its purpose at the cross, is a grave mistake. The term cannot refer to a building or even a city, no matter how holy. Both were completely destroyed by Babylon, so their destruction cannot possibly embody the meaning of the abomination that causes desolation. Instead, it is the crucifixion of the Messiah that represents the ultimate abomination, marking the most severe desolation by severing the connection between humanity and their God through the most unjust act in history.

It is the literal act (the cross) that causes the spiritual desolation between the Jews and their God. The physical structures have been done away with; they have fulfilled their God-given mission.

Here are three verses in the New Testament that speak directly to Daniel 9:27c (should you accept it):

Matthew 24:15, ¹⁵Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand,)

Mark 13:14, ¹⁴But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)

Luke 21:20, ²⁰But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 both speak of the “abomination of desolation,” but there is a very noticeable difference between the two, while Luke does not mention this phrase. Rather, he speaks to the desolation of physical things.

Matthew 24:15.…. “standing in the holy place.”

Mark 13:14……… “standing where it ought not.”

Luke 21:20………. “but when you see Jerusalem.”

These three verses do not all speak to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. Perhaps they are meant to send their own unique message as well as confirm the timing and identity of the abomination that causes desolation.

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus refers to the "abomination that causes desolation" standing in the holy place (Matthew 24:15). This is often interpreted literally, suggesting someone physically standing in the holy place. Given the context of Matthew's Gospel, which was written specifically to a Jewish audience, this interpretation carries profound significance. Matthew’s intent was to confirm to his Jewish readers that Jesus was indeed the Messiah, their King, and their High Priest. Therefore, it is entirely fitting to see Jesus, the Messiah, standing in the holy place. This aligns with His role and mission, confirming His divine authority and presence in the temple. When Jesus stood in the holy place, it was a fulfillment of the prophecy, emphasizing His legitimate claim as the Anointed One. This interpretation also highlights the spiritual significance of Jesus's presence in the temple, which goes beyond a mere physical occupation. It underscores His role in fulfilling the sacrificial system and establishing a new covenant. Thus, when Matthew speaks of the "abomination that causes desolation" standing in the holy place, it is not just a reference to a future event but also a profound affirmation of Jesus's identity and mission. It connects His physical presence in the temple with the ultimate sacrifice He would make on the cross, thus fulfilling the messianic prophecies and confirming His role as the true High Priest who brings an end to the old sacrificial system.

In the Gospel of Mark, the portrayal of Jesus as the Suffering Servant is central to the narrative. Mark's audience, primarily Gentile Christians, would resonate with the depiction of Jesus as one who came to serve and to suffer for humanity. This perspective influences the interpretation of the "abomination that causes desolation" differently than in Matthew's Gospel. While Matthew’s Gospel positions Jesus in the holy place to highlight His role as the Messiah and High Priest, Mark’s focus on Jesus as the Suffering Servant shifts the emphasis away from a literal presence in the temple. Therefore, a "servant", even this "Suffering Servant," would not be expected to be found in the holy place; that is not where a servant belongs.

Instead, Mark underscores Jesus's mission and actions as a servant who fulfills God’s will through His suffering and service to humanity. In this context, the "abomination that causes desolation" in Mark (Mark 13:14) should be interpreted symbolically rather than literally. It represents the ultimate rejection and betrayal of Jesus, the Suffering Servant, culminating in His crucifixion. This act of betrayal and crucifixion is the greatest injustice and abomination, causing spiritual desolation. Therefore, in Mark’s narrative, the holy place is not a physical location where a servant would be found, but rather it symbolizes the sacred mission of Jesus. His service, suffering, and sacrifice are the true holy actions that fulfill the prophecy. Mark emphasizes that Jesus’s servanthood and sacrifice are what sanctify and bring true holiness, even if they lead Him away from the literal temple. By focusing on Jesus as the Suffering Servant, Mark illustrates that the true abomination lies in humanity's rejection of God’s chosen Servant. This rejection, culminating in the crucifixion, is the ultimate desolation, fulfilling the prophetic warnings in a profound and spiritual manner.

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus's life unfolds in a chronological order, highlighting His identity as the Son of Man and His mission to bring redemption to humanity. Luke meticulously traces Jesus's genealogy back to Adam, emphasizing His deep connection with all of humanity and His role as the ultimate redeemer. Throughout Luke's narrative, Jesus's dual nature as both fully human and divine is emphasized. While He embodies complete humanity, Luke also portrays Him as the divine Messiah through His teachings, miracles, and fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies.

Luke 21:20 records Jesus's prophecy regarding the impending destruction of Jerusalem, a consequence of His rejection and crucifixion. This event signifies not only physical devastation but also spiritual estrangement between God and His people. The connection between Luke's portrayal of Jesus as the Son of Man and the destruction of Jerusalem underscores the central theme of Jesus's identity and mission. As the Son of Man, Jesus embodies both humanity and divinity, and His crucifixion represents the ultimate abomination that leads to spiritual desolation and the devastation of Jerusalem. Furthermore, Luke's focus on Jerusalem as a whole suggests that the impact of Jesus's crucifixion extends beyond the physical temple to encompass the entire city and its inhabitants. While the crucifixion of an ordinary man would not necessarily result in spiritual desolation, the crucifixion of Jesus, who is both fully human and fully divine, carries profound spiritual implications, symbolizing the rejection and betrayal of God's chosen Messiah and causing a rupture in the relationship between God and His people.

In all three Gospels, Jesus unmistakably points to His crucifixion as the event representing the "abomination that causes desolation." This consistent message across the Gospels underscores the profound significance of His sacrifice in bringing about spiritual desolation and the subsequent destruction of Jerusalem. By presenting this message from different angles, Jesus ensures that His followers grasp the deep implications of His crucifixion and its fulfillment of Messianic prophecy. While Matthew and Mark explicitly mention this phrase, Luke's Gospel offers a distinct perspective on the impending destruction of Jerusalem. Despite not using the exact wording, Luke portrays Jesus as the Son of Man and includes prophecies about Jerusalem's devastation, conveying the same central theme present in the other Gospels: Jesus's crucifixion as the catalyst for spiritual desolation and the city's downfall. Together, these accounts affirm Jesus's identity as the Messiah and emphasize the fulfillment of Messianic prophecy during the last week of Daniel's seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Rather than pointing to a secular figure or a future anti-Christ, Jesus's teachings highlight Himself as the ultimate fulfillment of prophecy and the central figure in bringing about redemption and salvation.

And perhaps there is another thing to consider. In Matthew and Mark, Jesus will mention the exact same phrase, but not in Luke:

... spoken of by Daniel the prophet,"

In Matthew and Mark, Jesus mentions the phrase, "spoken of by Daniel the prophet." While specific verses may resonate differently in each Gospel, the overarching message remains consistent: Jesus is fulfilling Messianic prophecy as foretold by Daniel. In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus's mention of Daniel likely emphasizes the prophecy of the Messiah as the Prince, aligning with Daniel 9:25c. He is One that belongs in the Temple. This highlights Jesus's role as the promised King who brings salvation and establishes His kingdom. On the other hand, Mark's Gospel may direct attention to Daniel 9:26a, which speaks of the Messiah being "cut off" but not for Himself. This emphasizes Jesus's sacrificial death as the suffering servant who atones for the sins of humanity; but no servant should be found within the Temple. While Luke does not mention the same phrase, the overarching theme of Jesus's identity as the Messiah and His redemptive mission is evident throughout his Gospel. Luke portrays Jesus as the Son of Man, emphasizing His humanity and His role in redeeming mankind. Here, the “man” is standing outside the city and warning all to leave Jerusalem.

And finally, there is another series of verses found in Matthew 24. There are a series of questions posed to Jesus, and He provides His disciples with some very difficult statements. There is one section of Chapter 24, verses 15 to 22, that, for the most part, are interpreted to be end-time events. Perhaps there is another interpretation where these verses, or part of them, speak to Jesus during His 3.5-year ministry (and therefore, 9:24–27).

¹⁵Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand). ….²²And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

These verses in Matthew's Chapter 24 often evoke thoughts of the "great tribulation period." However, there's another interpretation to consider, one that aligns these events with the last week in Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Within this context, Jesus, identified as the "abomination that causes desolation," is crucified. Throughout His ministry, Jesus demonstrated divine authority through miraculous deeds and profound teachings. He healed the sick, restored sight to the blind, raised the dead, and performed extraordinary feats that testified to His identity as the promised Messiah. Despite these clear signs, many refused to acknowledge Him as their Savior. Even if Jesus had continued performing miracles indefinitely, acceptance as the Messiah would have remained elusive. Thus, the crucifixion became an essential part of God's plan of salvation. It served as a pivotal moment, prompting individuals to reflect on Jesus's teachings, miracles, and fulfillment of prophecy.

The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus captured the world's attention, sparking widespread discussion and debate. Did this man truly rise from the dead? This pivotal event compelled people to reexamine the Scriptures, seeking to understand the fulfillment of numerous messianic prophecies. In doing so, they encountered the profound truth of Jesus's identity and the salvation He offers to all who believe. The Lord chose not to complete the entire seven-year set-aside period of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Instead, He willingly accepted His own crucifixion, thereby compelling each person to make a personal choice regarding their faith. In this way, Jesus became the sacrificial Lamb of God, taking away the sin of the world. The crucifixion serves as an essential moment, demanding that every individual decide if Jesus is their Savior and Lord. He did not come merely as a healer, magician, good man, or prophet; He came to save the world. Without the cross, there is no salvation. Jesus willingly became God’s sacrificial Lamb, accepting crucifixion for the sake of humanity. He is the one who shortened the days within the last week of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy, highlighting His role in God's intricate plan of salvation. This is not about end-time events or prophecies, but about the central figure of this narrative—Jesus.

God’s plan of salvation is beautifully woven, with every thread in Daniel perfectly connected and sewn together. Even attempts to pull out threads by the little horn cannot destroy the image on this divine tapestry, unless one chooses to see it that way.

Jesus would shorten those days (the last week in Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy); otherwise, no flesh would be saved.

The message within these verses (24:15-22) are not end time events or prophecies, rather they speak directly to the times of the Messiah and His crucifixion. He knew “those days would have to be shortened” to fulfill His mission given to Him by His Father.

Look forward to your thoughts, Charlie

[Stewardofthemystery]

39 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

You are right, but would you please take a look below that discusses this particular issue. (It is found in my commentary on Daniel that was recently released).

the "abomination that causes desolation"

Among the many theories that have been offered, interpretations often center on the physical destruction of the temple. These varied theories, spanning different time periods, associate the "Temple" with several key events: the temple's destruction in 70 AD, the defilement during the time of Antiochus Epiphanes about 200 years earlier, or the anticipated destruction of a supposedly rebuilt temple 2000 years in the future. However, it is important to understand that this phrase does not pertain to the physical destruction of the temple, regardless of the time period in question. Instead, the focus should be on the deeper spiritual implications and the fulfillment of the prophecy through the Messiah's redemptive work.

The most widely accepted interpretation involves the Jesuits' infamous seven-year tribulation theory, or gap theory, which projects the last week of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy about 2000 years into the future. Within this framework, the "one who makes desolate" is misidentified as a mythical anti-Christ figure that has yet to come. However, the book of Daniel, particularly the messianic prophecies in Chapter 9, focuses on the coming Messiah and His plan of salvation for the Jews and all of humanity. There is no mention of an anti-Christ figure in the book of Daniel. Instead, there is a very real and dangerous little horn revealed in the last six chapters, who has been present on earth for the past 1500 years. You just cannot miss him—that is, unless you want to!

Verse 27c speaks about the Messiah. He is the "One" who will cause the desolation. The "abomination or transgression that causes desolation" is the cross; it is the crucifixion that will cause this complete "desolation."

The crucifixion of Jesus, the Messiah and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, stands as the most horrifying, evil, and incomprehensible event in the history of mankind. This is the true meaning of the “abomination that causes desolation.” It surpasses any act of disobedience, transgression, or inequity that the Jews or humanity could ever commit against their God. Can there be a greater injustice, a more evil act, or a more horrendous definition of an "abomination"?

Limiting our interpretation of this profound term to the mere destruction of a physical building, especially one that fulfilled its purpose at the cross, is a grave mistake. The term cannot refer to a building or even a city, no matter how holy. Both were completely destroyed by Babylon, so their destruction cannot possibly embody the meaning of the abomination that causes desolation. Instead, it is the crucifixion of the Messiah that represents the ultimate abomination, marking the most severe desolation by severing the connection between humanity and their God through the most unjust act in history.

It is the literal act (the cross) that causes the spiritual desolation between the Jews and their God. The physical structures have been done away with; they have fulfilled their God-given mission.

Here are three verses in the New Testament that speak directly to Daniel 9:27c (should you accept it):

Matthew 24:15, ¹⁵Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand,)

Mark 13:14, ¹⁴But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)

Luke 21:20, ²⁰But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 both speak of the “abomination of desolation,” but there is a very noticeable difference between the two, while Luke does not mention this phrase. Rather, he speaks to the desolation of physical things.

Matthew 24:15.…. “standing in the holy place.”

Mark 13:14……… “standing where it ought not.”

Luke 21:20………. “but when you see Jerusalem.”

These three verses do not all speak to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD. Perhaps they are meant to send their own unique message as well as confirm the timing and identity of the abomination that causes desolation.

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus refers to the "abomination that causes desolation" standing in the holy place (Matthew 24:15). This is often interpreted literally, suggesting someone physically standing in the holy place. Given the context of Matthew's Gospel, which was written specifically to a Jewish audience, this interpretation carries profound significance. Matthew’s intent was to confirm to his Jewish readers that Jesus was indeed the Messiah, their King, and their High Priest. Therefore, it is entirely fitting to see Jesus, the Messiah, standing in the holy place. This aligns with His role and mission, confirming His divine authority and presence in the temple. When Jesus stood in the holy place, it was a fulfillment of the prophecy, emphasizing His legitimate claim as the Anointed One. This interpretation also highlights the spiritual significance of Jesus's presence in the temple, which goes beyond a mere physical occupation. It underscores His role in fulfilling the sacrificial system and establishing a new covenant. Thus, when Matthew speaks of the "abomination that causes desolation" standing in the holy place, it is not just a reference to a future event but also a profound affirmation of Jesus's identity and mission. It connects His physical presence in the temple with the ultimate sacrifice He would make on the cross, thus fulfilling the messianic prophecies and confirming His role as the true High Priest who brings an end to the old sacrificial system.

In the Gospel of Mark, the portrayal of Jesus as the Suffering Servant is central to the narrative. Mark's audience, primarily Gentile Christians, would resonate with the depiction of Jesus as one who came to serve and to suffer for humanity. This perspective influences the interpretation of the "abomination that causes desolation" differently than in Matthew's Gospel. While Matthew’s Gospel positions Jesus in the holy place to highlight His role as the Messiah and High Priest, Mark’s focus on Jesus as the Suffering Servant shifts the emphasis away from a literal presence in the temple. Therefore, a "servant", even this "Suffering Servant," would not be expected to be found in the holy place; that is not where a servant belongs.

Instead, Mark underscores Jesus's mission and actions as a servant who fulfills God’s will through His suffering and service to humanity. In this context, the "abomination that causes desolation" in Mark (Mark 13:14) should be interpreted symbolically rather than literally. It represents the ultimate rejection and betrayal of Jesus, the Suffering Servant, culminating in His crucifixion. This act of betrayal and crucifixion is the greatest injustice and abomination, causing spiritual desolation. Therefore, in Mark’s narrative, the holy place is not a physical location where a servant would be found, but rather it symbolizes the sacred mission of Jesus. His service, suffering, and sacrifice are the true holy actions that fulfill the prophecy. Mark emphasizes that Jesus’s servanthood and sacrifice are what sanctify and bring true holiness, even if they lead Him away from the literal temple. By focusing on Jesus as the Suffering Servant, Mark illustrates that the true abomination lies in humanity's rejection of God’s chosen Servant. This rejection, culminating in the crucifixion, is the ultimate desolation, fulfilling the prophetic warnings in a profound and spiritual manner.

In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus's life unfolds in a chronological order, highlighting His identity as the Son of Man and His mission to bring redemption to humanity. Luke meticulously traces Jesus's genealogy back to Adam, emphasizing His deep connection with all of humanity and His role as the ultimate redeemer. Throughout Luke's narrative, Jesus's dual nature as both fully human and divine is emphasized. While He embodies complete humanity, Luke also portrays Him as the divine Messiah through His teachings, miracles, and fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies.

Luke 21:20 records Jesus's prophecy regarding the impending destruction of Jerusalem, a consequence of His rejection and crucifixion. This event signifies not only physical devastation but also spiritual estrangement between God and His people. The connection between Luke's portrayal of Jesus as the Son of Man and the destruction of Jerusalem underscores the central theme of Jesus's identity and mission. As the Son of Man, Jesus embodies both humanity and divinity, and His crucifixion represents the ultimate abomination that leads to spiritual desolation and the devastation of Jerusalem. Furthermore, Luke's focus on Jerusalem as a whole suggests that the impact of Jesus's crucifixion extends beyond the physical temple to encompass the entire city and its inhabitants. While the crucifixion of an ordinary man would not necessarily result in spiritual desolation, the crucifixion of Jesus, who is both fully human and fully divine, carries profound spiritual implications, symbolizing the rejection and betrayal of God's chosen Messiah and causing a rupture in the relationship between God and His people.

In all three Gospels, Jesus unmistakably points to His crucifixion as the event representing the "abomination that causes desolation." This consistent message across the Gospels underscores the profound significance of His sacrifice in bringing about spiritual desolation and the subsequent destruction of Jerusalem. By presenting this message from different angles, Jesus ensures that His followers grasp the deep implications of His crucifixion and its fulfillment of Messianic prophecy. While Matthew and Mark explicitly mention this phrase, Luke's Gospel offers a distinct perspective on the impending destruction of Jerusalem. Despite not using the exact wording, Luke portrays Jesus as the Son of Man and includes prophecies about Jerusalem's devastation, conveying the same central theme present in the other Gospels: Jesus's crucifixion as the catalyst for spiritual desolation and the city's downfall. Together, these accounts affirm Jesus's identity as the Messiah and emphasize the fulfillment of Messianic prophecy during the last week of Daniel's seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Rather than pointing to a secular figure or a future anti-Christ, Jesus's teachings highlight Himself as the ultimate fulfillment of prophecy and the central figure in bringing about redemption and salvation.

And perhaps there is another thing to consider. In Matthew and Mark, Jesus will mention the exact same phrase, but not in Luke:

... spoken of by Daniel the prophet,"

In Matthew and Mark, Jesus mentions the phrase, "spoken of by Daniel the prophet." While specific verses may resonate differently in each Gospel, the overarching message remains consistent: Jesus is fulfilling Messianic prophecy as foretold by Daniel. In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus's mention of Daniel likely emphasizes the prophecy of the Messiah as the Prince, aligning with Daniel 9:25c. He is One that belongs in the Temple. This highlights Jesus's role as the promised King who brings salvation and establishes His kingdom. On the other hand, Mark's Gospel may direct attention to Daniel 9:26a, which speaks of the Messiah being "cut off" but not for Himself. This emphasizes Jesus's sacrificial death as the suffering servant who atones for the sins of humanity; but no servant should be found within the Temple. While Luke does not mention the same phrase, the overarching theme of Jesus's identity as the Messiah and His redemptive mission is evident throughout his Gospel. Luke portrays Jesus as the Son of Man, emphasizing His humanity and His role in redeeming mankind. Here, the “man” is standing outside the city and warning all to leave Jerusalem.

And finally, there is another series of verses found in Matthew 24. There are a series of questions posed to Jesus, and He provides His disciples with some very difficult statements. There is one section of Chapter 24, verses 15 to 22, that, for the most part, are interpreted to be end-time events. Perhaps there is another interpretation where these verses, or part of them, speak to Jesus during His 3.5-year ministry (and therefore, 9:24–27).

¹⁵Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand). ….²²And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

These verses in Matthew's Chapter 24 often evoke thoughts of the "great tribulation period." However, there's another interpretation to consider, one that aligns these events with the last week in Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Within this context, Jesus, identified as the "abomination that causes desolation," is crucified. Throughout His ministry, Jesus demonstrated divine authority through miraculous deeds and profound teachings. He healed the sick, restored sight to the blind, raised the dead, and performed extraordinary feats that testified to His identity as the promised Messiah. Despite these clear signs, many refused to acknowledge Him as their Savior. Even if Jesus had continued performing miracles indefinitely, acceptance as the Messiah would have remained elusive. Thus, the crucifixion became an essential part of God's plan of salvation. It served as a pivotal moment, prompting individuals to reflect on Jesus's teachings, miracles, and fulfillment of prophecy.

The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus captured the world's attention, sparking widespread discussion and debate. Did this man truly rise from the dead? This pivotal event compelled people to reexamine the Scriptures, seeking to understand the fulfillment of numerous messianic prophecies. In doing so, they encountered the profound truth of Jesus's identity and the salvation He offers to all who believe. The Lord chose not to complete the entire seven-year set-aside period of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Instead, He willingly accepted His own crucifixion, thereby compelling each person to make a personal choice regarding their faith. In this way, Jesus became the sacrificial Lamb of God, taking away the sin of the world. The crucifixion serves as an essential moment, demanding that every individual decide if Jesus is their Savior and Lord. He did not come merely as a healer, magician, good man, or prophet; He came to save the world. Without the cross, there is no salvation. Jesus willingly became God’s sacrificial Lamb, accepting crucifixion for the sake of humanity. He is the one who shortened the days within the last week of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy, highlighting His role in God's intricate plan of salvation. This is not about end-time events or prophecies, but about the central figure of this narrative—Jesus.

God’s plan of salvation is beautifully woven, with every thread in Daniel perfectly connected and sewn together. Even attempts to pull out threads by the little horn cannot destroy the image on this divine tapestry, unless one chooses to see it that way.

Jesus would shorten those days (the last week in Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy); otherwise, no flesh would be saved.

The message within these verses (24:15-22) are not end time events or prophecies, rather they speak directly to the times of the Messiah and His crucifixion. He knew “those days would have to be shortened” to fulfill His mission given to Him by His Father.

Look forward to your thoughts, Charlie

All 3 gospel accounts “agree”Charlie, the AOD prophesied in Daniel was about the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. 
 

Notice the part about them (((fleeing into the mountains))in the next verse of each gospel account below….

Matthew 24:15, ¹⁵Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand,)

 

Matthew 24:16

((Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:))

 

Now to Marks account….

Mark 13:14, ¹⁴But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)

 

Mark 13:14

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) (((then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:)))

 

Now to Luke’s account…

Luke 21:20, ²⁰But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

 

Luke 21:21

((Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; ))and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

 

So all 3 gospel accounts are talking about “the same Abomination of Desolation” event spoken by Daniel, and confirmed by Jesus above to be “the same event,” which was the coming destruction of the Jerusalem and the Temple Mount THEY WERE LOOKING AT WITH THEIR OWN EYES 👀 

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

All 3 gospel accounts “agree”Charlie, the AOD prophesied in Daniel was about the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. 
 

Notice the part about them (((fleeing into the mountains))in the next verse of each gospel account below….

Matthew 24:15, ¹⁵Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand,)

 

Matthew 24:16

((Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:))

 

Now to Marks account….

Mark 13:14, ¹⁴But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)

 

Mark 13:14

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) (((then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:)))

 

Now to Luke’s account…

Luke 21:20, ²⁰But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

 

Luke 21:21

((Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; ))and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

 

So all 3 gospel accounts are talking about “the same Abomination of Desolation” event spoken by Daniel, and confirmed by Jesus above to be “the same event,” which was the coming destruction of the Jerusalem and the Temple Mount THEY WERE LOOKING AT WITH THEIR OWN EYES 👀 

Well, I have given you all of my thoughts on this. You are correct, they all speak about the AOD, but the AOD is the crucifixion of the Messiah.... His crucifixion CAUSED the 2000 year desolation between them and their God. His crucifixion CAUSED the coming destruction of the Temple, the Sanctuary and everything in Israel. They did not CAUSE ANYTHING.They were the RESULT  of the most abominable act know to man.

[Stewardofthemystery]

8 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

 but the AOD is the crucifixion of the Messiah.... His crucifixion CAUSED the 2000 year desolation between them and their God. His crucifixion CAUSED the coming destruction of the Temple, the Sanctuary and everything in Israel. They did not CAUSE ANYTHING.They were the RESULT  of the most abominable act know to man.

Don’t blame Jesus for the desolations that came upon Israel and Jerusalem, and don’t blame Jesus for the destruction of the wicked.

Christ did not come into the world and die on the cross for the purpose of destroying mens lives, but to save them.

Luke 9:56

For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. 

[Charlie744]

37 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Don’t blame Jesus for the desolations that came upon Israel and Jerusalem, and don’t blame Jesus for the destruction of the wicked.

Christ did not come into the world and die on the cross for the purpose of destroying mens lives, but to save them.

Luke 9:56

For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. 

I can’t imagine how anyone could come away from reading my comments on the AOD with such a statement that, somehow, I was blaming Jesus… for anything!  
 

The “abomination” is the act of Him being rejected and crucified. The ones responsible for this horrific transgression against their God was His people. 
 

As a result of THEIR abominable act against their Messiah, God would punish them with over 2000 years of making them desolate to their God…. And by the way, the Temple, the Sanctuary and all the physical elements associated with the Levitical system would be destroyed- for they were no longer needed. Their mission was fulfilled.  
 

Can’t say any clearer… but please do not twist my words. I think that was a terrible comment… there isn’t any more for us to try and discuss on this subject. 

 

 

 

[Diaste]

On 6/16/2024 at 10:47 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

Many claim the abomination of desolation (AOD) spoken of by Daniel and Jesus has not been fulfilled yet, and another Temple needs to be rebuilt in the future in Jerusalem in order to fulfill this prophecy. The easiest way I have found to prove this doctrine is false is by Jesus’ own words. Below both Jesus and the apostles, were speaking of the Temple and buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes."

The words of God confirm this truth.....

Mark 13:1-413 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

So Jesus was telling them about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes." Notice in Mark's account above there is only one question asked about when shall these buildings be destroyed, and what sign would there be prior to this event, concerning the abomination of desolation.

But in Matthew's account pay attention to the question and the prophecy, as 2 separate questions are asked of Jesus.

Matthew 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 

So in Matthews account not only was Jesus asked about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes", but also about the signs of Christ’s second coming and also about the end of the world.

Now to Luke's account…..

Luke 21:5-7

 

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Again notice they are speaking of the Temple and buildings they are looking at "with their own eyes." And so Jesus tells them "the signs" given before the temple is to be destroyed….

Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” ( This is the abomination of desolation event spoken of in Daniel)

This event concerning the destruction of the city of Jerusalem that Jesus and the apostles were looking at "with their own eyes "is also confirmed by Jesus in Luke 19:41-44 “And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it. Saying, If thou hast known, even thou, at least in this day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.”

 

So the common mistake here is to think that the abomination of desolation concerning the destruction of the Temple is yet future, and has anything to do with the second coming of Christ and the end of the world almost 2 thousand years later. But when you understand the questions asked of Jesus was in two parts, then hopefully you will see these 2 events are separate from one another and are many, many years apart. Also the time line concerning "when" the AOD was fulfilled has nothing to do with the timeline 70 week prophecy in Daniel. The end of the 70 week prophecy, and the fulfilling of the AOD prophecy are about 40 years apart from one another.

And it is also very clear in all accounts given in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that Jesus and the apostles were talking about the Temple and surrounding buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes".

There is no need for a future Temple to be built to fulfill this AOD prophecy, as it has already been fulfilled in 70 a.d. when the Roman army surrounded, and then destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. Both the words of Jesus and history prove this to be true. With the abomination of desolation events already being fulfilled, we can now focus on the events leading up to Christ's second coming, and on the signs concerning the end of this world.

Prove all things by the words of God. Peace and God bless

 

Just so I understand what you are saying, you conclude this,

"And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

occurred at the same time and place, yes?

According to Mark and Matthew it was two different times and places. The prophecy of the destruction of the Temple was given as they left the Temple:

Mark 13

As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, look at the magnificent stones and buildings!”

2“Do you see all these great buildings?” Jesus replied. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Matt 24

As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings.

2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

In contrast, the question about the end of the age was asked as Jesus sat on The Mount of Olives:

Matt 24

"While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”"

Mark 13

"While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4“Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?”"

The Mount of Olives is about a 1/2 hour walk from the Temple, slightly more if the Temple was in the City of David, as some suggest. Since the evidence is there to prove this is true, the questions were asked a minimum of 30 minutes apart but could have been separated by a day. 

That means the question of the Temple and it's destruction is unrelated to the questions and answers concerning the end of the age. It's two prophecies given at two different times and two different locations. 

The A of D is a specific act outlined by Jewish history.

AE IV committed this act in 167 BC. One can read all about it in the Jewish Encyclopedia. 

It is not the eagle sigil leaned up against a wall; it's main component is forced obedience and desecration of the Jewish faith. 

The Romans didn't even destroy the Temple in 70 AD, that was committed by the legion X Fretensis, made up of Syrian and Arab conscripts.

The Temple prophecy is not related to the end of the age and the coming of Jesus, the Romans are not responsible for the destruction of the Temple, and end of the age prophecy was not fulfilled in 70 AD. 

If it was, where in all the histories is the 1000 year reign of Jesus and the elect recorded?

And after that the earth and heavens are supposed to be as described in Rev 21, for eternity. I don't see that, no one does.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I can’t imagine how anyone could come away from reading my comments on the AOD with such a statement that, somehow, I was blaming Jesus… for anything!  
 

The “abomination” is the act of Him being rejected and crucified. The ones responsible for this horrific transgression against their God was His people. 
 

As a result of THEIR abominable act against their Messiah, God would punish them with over 2000 years of making them desolate to their God…. And by the way, the Temple, the Sanctuary and all the physical elements associated with the Levitical system would be destroyed- for they were no longer needed. Their mission was fulfilled.  
 

Can’t say any clearer… but please do not twist my words. I think that was a terrible comment… there isn’t any more for us to try and discuss on this subject. 

 

 

 

You are the one who said, and I quote… “His crucifixion CAUSED the 2000 year desolation between them and their God. His crucifixion CAUSED the coming destruction of the Temple, the Sanctuary and everything in Israel. They did not CAUSE ANYTHING.” (End quote)

Poor choice of words if you ask me.🫤

[Stewardofthemystery]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Just so I understand what you are saying, you conclude this,

"And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

occurred at the same time and place, yes?

According to Mark and Matthew it was two different times and places. The prophecy of the destruction of the Temple was given as they left the Temple:

Mark 13

As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, “Teacher, look at the magnificent stones and buildings!”

2“Do you see all these great buildings?” Jesus replied. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Matt 24

As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings.

2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

In contrast, the question about the end of the age was asked as Jesus sat on The Mount of Olives:

Matt 24

"While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”"

Mark 13

"While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4“Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?”"

The Mount of Olives is about a 1/2 hour walk from the Temple, slightly more if the Temple was in the City of David, as some suggest. Since the evidence is there to prove this is true, the questions were asked a minimum of 30 minutes apart but could have been separated by a day. 

That means the question of the Temple and it's destruction is unrelated to the questions and answers concerning the end of the age. It's two prophecies given at two different times and two different locations. 

The A of D is a specific act outlined by Jewish history.

AE IV committed this act in 167 BC. One can read all about it in the Jewish Encyclopedia. 

It is not the eagle sigil leaned up against a wall; it's main component is forced obedience and desecration of the Jewish faith. 

The Romans didn't even destroy the Temple in 70 AD, that was committed by the legion X Fretensis, made up of Syrian and Arab conscripts.

The Temple prophecy is not related to the end of the age and the coming of Jesus, the Romans are not responsible for the destruction of the Temple, and end of the age prophecy was not fulfilled in 70 AD. 

If it was, where in all the histories is the 1000 year reign of Jesus and the elect recorded?

And after that the earth and heavens are supposed to be as described in Rev 21, for eternity. I don't see that, no one does.

 

I covered this in my OP….

Matthew 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 

So in Matthews account not only was Jesus asked about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes", but also about the signs of Christ’s second coming and also about the end of the world.”

So in ALL the gospel accounts Jesus was talking about the destruction of the Temple they were LOOKING AT WITH THEIR OWN EYES 👀 

The false doctrines of men are trying to move this event into the future because they cannot “rightly divide”between past, present, and future events.