A WAKE-UP CALL?

[Dennis1209]

11 hours ago, LaMonte said:

 

     I do know, "2 Pet 3:1-18" tell us "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness. 

     In "Matt 24:37-39" Jesus told His disciples, “But as the days of Noah were, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 

     The people didn't want to hear what Noah had to say. They didn't want to listen to the warnings that God was giving through Noah. Those scoffers, like scoffers today, were saying that everything is just fine - like it’s always been. Why do you think they were saying that? To put people to sleep and steal their hope. The hope of the coming of Jesus is the most important thing besides the gospel that a believer can hold on to today.

     I have heard from many Church leaders’ “Pastors” that Christians need to redeem the society they live in. They need to be involved in government, politics and every type of business and social institution so that they can make a difference. That’s what a lot of them say today. But let me ask you this: whose example are we to follow? The answer for me is Jesus Christ. Did Jesus involve Himself in the politics of His day? Think of what a difference He could have made if He had entered government. But what do the Scriptures say?

     The scriptures are often time read through the filter of the flesh, not the mind of Christ.

I get where you are coming from. No, Jesus was not a politician or Republican; I get that.

Would you agree with the following?

• The Lord established human government, laws, and rights. If so, was it established only for the pagans and heathens only? The Creator endows us.
• The church should influence the government, not vice versa. If that statement is true, how can we accomplish it? Jefferson's letter to his friend on the separation of church and state is grossly misinterpreted as intended.
• If we abhor and disagree with millions of children being slaughtered in the womb. Now, a push of killing them outside of the womb. What is the Christian moral and civil responsibility to stop and reverse that?

As mentioned, the Lord appoints those in authority to direct history for His plan and purposes. We are to obey those in power and human laws outlined in the hope of living a peaceful life. 1 Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

The exception is when human law conflicts with God’s laws and commands.

Quote: “Did Jesus involve Himself in the politics of His day?”

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

The above fits the definition of politics: POL´ITIC̵S, n. [Fr. politique; Gr. πολιτικη. See Policy.]

The science of government; that part of ethics which consists in the regulation and government of a nation or state, for the preservation of its safety, peace and prosperity; comprehending the defense of its existence and rights against foreign control or conquest, the augmentation of its strength and resources, and the protection of its citizens in their rights, with the preservation and improvement of their morals. Politics, as a science or an art, is a subject of vast extent and importance.^[1]

This is an amazing answer because it involves more than just answering their question—and He certainly did that. In addition, He is saying that they did owe something to Caesar. They were using his coins, they walked down Roman roads, and Rome did provide them with a measure of peace; so they did owe something to Rome. Therefore, render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s. But there is another department: Render unto God the things that are God’s.^[2]

I would add this is a separation between church and state, politics – and religion.

Remember how upset Jesus became with the money exchangers in and outside the Temple, a flea market. He turned over tables and destroyed commerce. This activity was well-established and legal under Jewish and Roman law.

Most churches, including my own, are involved in politics, better said, lack of politics and speaking out. They participate in the government 501 (C) (3) tax exemption program, so offerings and tithes to the Lord are not heavily taxed.

Participating in this program muzzles and restrains pastors and the church from political activity or lobbying. A church must serve the public interest, not specifically God’s.

During the height of the COVID-19 fiasco, churches were mandated as non-essential and had to close. Liquor shops, porn stores, etc., were deemed by extension essential and allowed to remain open.

Under this tax exemption, a church cannot endorse or rally for a political candidate or officially discuss party platforms.

The discrimination clause now, or shortly will, include discrimination against gay, bi, and gender identity for church employment. Therefore, the government regulates most churches to conform to political correctness. At the dissolution of the church, federal, state, or local government receives the church's remaining assets for the public good.

 

---

^[1] Noah Webster, Noah Webster’s First Edition of An American Dictionary of the English Language. (Anaheim, CA: Foundation for American Christian Education, 2006).

^[2] J. Vernon McGee, Thru the Bible Commentary: The Gospels (Matthew 14-28), electronic ed., vol. 35 (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1991), 108–109.

[Ray12614]

11 hours ago, tatwo said:

Lilybloom...greetings...

Your message is a message of wisdom for the church...thank you.

Tatwo...:)

Wisdom is being faithful stewards of the unique form of representative government we have been given that other country's do not have. Certainly we don't major on politics, but, we should not avoid politics either since it is part of the culture around us that we are supposed to be influencing.

How hard is it to vote?  Voting is not an 'I choose God, OR , else I vote proposition. However it is an I choose God first AND THEN I will be responsible enough to vote my biblical values as best I can given the choices available to me.

Voting is easy, and party platforms are naked and bare for all to see. Choose the best platform we can!

Frankly not voting for the best of the choices we have is being lazy and slothful when it is so easy for us vote.

My name is Ray and I approve this message . . .  LOL

[Dennis1209]

12 hours ago, tatwo said:

It seems difficult to answer...simply because I do not know the circumstances surrounding "all the other" elections in American history.

As I see it...this 2024 Presidential election is..."pure theater"...something to keep Americans doing what they love most...being entertained. While I do believe democrat and republican administrations bring different "effects" upon the U.S. citizenry...I can also see that behind the scenes both parties are taking their orders and paychecks from the same group of globalist technocrats.

To the U.S. citizens and tax payers...I will agree that "they" perceive this as "a crucial" election. In the "long term" picture it really means very little. The Lord Yahshua considers neither of these foul men and their parties as anything but judgment upon the nation they are selected to lead further into darkness.

Tatwo...:)

 

I agree. We will not have a perfect government until the return of our Lord and His reign. I still believe we have the best form of human government ever conceived: a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy, as always spouted, where the mob and opinions of the time rule. And we are rapidly losing it.

The two major political parties are heading in the same direction. Without naming them, one is speeding much faster to the crash than the other, and they have the same backers. There is no such thing as statesmanship anymore.

Whatever happened to honor and the Alexander Hamilton vs Aaron Burr days? That would lend a lot with poly–ticks minding their Ps and Qs.

Lobbyists, corporations, the elite, and the wealthy donate billions of dollars to political campaigns. Do they do that out of the kindness of their hearts and convictions? No, it is to grab the politician's ear and influence law and favoritism.

Billions have been spent on political campaigns, and they are beholden to the major contributors and interests. It is impossible to obtain high office without millions of dollars. It is comparable to the poor not providing jobs; the entrepreneurs and wealthy do.

Pure theater, yes. It's mostly a dog and pony show, bread, and circuses, with clowns looking left and right.

 

[warrior12]

I use to have the below quote as my signature statement.   We live both in the the physical and spiritual world.  We use the functions of the government services for our daily lives.  In so called democratic systems, we are given the choice to select who we think may enhance or make our lives better to a variety of necessary things that allow us to live better.  

Really, I don't vote ,because I really don't follow politics and the likes. I was so entangled with spiritual warfare, that seemed to consume much of my existence, I could not care what the outcomes were.   Those who have families with children , have to pay attention to how their community and the likes are managed.  

I guess, both our spiritual and physical life is real and we have to use the gifts given and seek guidance from the God we serve, but also seek to get the potholes fixed in our roads , by those given to manage the roads ect. 

Well, I say potholes for a more simplistic reality, but the objectives facing us as to the world and striving to survive is becoming ever more complex.  The OP question warrants an answer. 

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

Reference: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/edmund-burkes-quote-good-men-doing-nothing.1036/

Edited July 27, 2024 by warrior12

[Lilybloom]

14 hours ago, farouk said:

Interesting avatar photo also; are you or have you been involved in the martial arts, maybe?

A knight standing in a field? I'm not sure why I picked it other than that it felt fitting.

You must have a sense about you, though. I used to be really into jiu jitsu. I still do it sometimes in a more casual sense; throwing down with old friends. Fell off of it after I had a medical condition that required surgery and a decent recovery period though. Just haven't had the drive.

[farouk]

3 minutes ago, Lilybloom said:

A knight standing in a field? I'm not sure why I picked it other than that it felt fitting.

You must have a sense about you, though. I used to be really into jiu jitsu. I still do it sometimes in a more casual sense; throwing down with old friends. Fell off of it after I had a medical condition that required surgery and a decent recovery period though. Just haven't had the drive.

@Lilybloom Hoping your health will be okay.

It's certainly the case that Scripture places supreme emphasis on inward and spiritual health rather than the outward. (2 Corinthians 4, for example.)

At the same time, any of various sorts of sports for those who are strong enough to pursue them can be profitable.

I saw the lady with the sword in your avatar, hence my question about martial arts, I guess. (On the tattoo thread, SIC was recently talking about his marital arts coach.)

[tatwo]

3 hours ago, Ray12614 said:

Wisdom is being faithful stewards of the unique form of representative government we have been given that other country's do not have.

Ray…what you have described is mere human reason…a wisdom that is from “below…earthly and sensual”…that “is” what actually distracts humanity…as @Lilybloom suggested…this includes the church…let me show you brother…you and Dennis serve as a great example as you both appear to be in agreement here.

It is important to remember that they which have wisdom from above and understand it…show it…how? Via a righteous behavior that exemplifies the compassion…of…godly wisdom. It is first innocent, conciliatory, merciful, reasonable, unwavering…abstaining from all evil and without hypocrisy.

That is what I interpreted “Lilybloom” as saying when she(?) stated…”so we're best just being prepared at all times. And how does one do that? By separating yourself from the world and just focusing on your faith. All of these mundane concerns are mere distractions.” She posted this in regard to governmental politics unholy invasion into religion.

Now for what you refer to as “wisdom”…as you express personally in your life by “your faithful stewardship” in the participation and support of the U.S. government…which is accurately described as an entity…that is filled with bitter jealousy and selfish ambition…it is also completely arrogant and is a lie against the truth. It is the “melting pot” of corruption, destruction, deception to name a few…an overflowing “hot bed” of godless sin.

This…Ray & Dennis…is the actual definition of “wisdom” which “is not” that which comes down from above…but is earthly, natural, demonic…and here is where you will find jealousy and selfish ambition…disorder and…”every evil thing.” This serves as a near perfect definition of everything about human government…especially in America.

So Ray…you prefer to define “wisdom” as that which…“is not”…from above…this by and through your faithful and diligent support of an earthly agency…that abounds in and serves as…the perfect definition of earthly, natural, demonic, jealous, and disorderly, which is driven by selfish ambition, wickedness and is overflowing in the production of every evil thing…as “your faithful expression” of “wisdom”…which you believe is your duty as a believer and something that pleases the Lord Yahshua Christ?

How does your version of “wisdom”…Ray…stand in the light of Paul’s admonition to the Thessalonians to “examine everything carefully…hold fast to that which is good…abstain from every form of evil.” Additionally there is his proclamation to Timothy…”the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.”

Try as you all may…to conflate or combined the “Kingdom of God” with this “world – the kingdom of darkness”…you will come to realize that this only works in your vain imagination and to your detriment I might add. You cannot do it…God is not going to do it…He said so…it cannot be done.

One is the “created” temporal reality which will cease when it has served the purpose for which the Lord created it. The other is the Creator who is an “eternal” reality…I will not concede that the partaking in and supporting of that…which is the antithesis of heaven…the strength and face of “anti-christ”...will ever be considered “wisdom” from or by God…neither should you Ray.

Tatwo...:)

[Ray12614]

1 hour ago, tatwo said:

Ray…what you have described is mere human reason…a wisdom that is from “below…earthly and sensual”…that “is” what actually distracts humanity…as @Lilybloom suggested…this includes the church…let me show you brother…you and Dennis serve as a great example as you both appear to be in agreement here.

It is important to remember that they which have wisdom from above and understand it…show it…how? Via a righteous behavior that exemplifies the compassion…of…godly wisdom. It is first innocent, conciliatory, merciful, reasonable, unwavering…abstaining from all evil and without hypocrisy.

That is what I interpreted “Lilybloom” as saying when she(?) stated…”so we're best just being prepared at all times. And how does one do that? By separating yourself from the world and just focusing on your faith. All of these mundane concerns are mere distractions.” She posted this in regard to governmental politics unholy invasion into religion.

Now for what you refer to as “wisdom”…as you express personally in your life by “your faithful stewardship” in the participation and support of the U.S. government…which is accurately described as an entity…that is filled with bitter jealousy and selfish ambition…it is also completely arrogant and is a lie against the truth. It is the “melting pot” of corruption, destruction, deception to name a few…an overflowing “hot bed” of godless sin.

This…Ray & Dennis…is the actual definition of “wisdom” which “is not” that which comes down from above…but is earthly, natural, demonic…and here is where you will find jealousy and selfish ambition…disorder and…”every evil thing.” This serves as a near perfect definition of everything about human government…especially in America.

So Ray…you prefer to define “wisdom” as that which…“is not”…from above…this by and through your faithful and diligent support of an earthly agency…that abounds in and serves as…the perfect definition of earthly, natural, demonic, jealous, and disorderly, which is driven by selfish ambition, wickedness and is overflowing in the production of every evil thing…as “your faithful expression” of “wisdom”…which you believe is your duty as a believer and something that pleases the Lord Yahshua Christ?

How does your version of “wisdom”…Ray…stand in the light of Paul’s admonition to the Thessalonians to “examine everything carefully…hold fast to that which is good…abstain from every form of evil.” Additionally there is his proclamation to Timothy…”the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.”

Try as you all may…to conflate or combined the “Kingdom of God” with this “world – the kingdom of darkness”…you will come to realize that this only works in your vain imagination and to your detriment I might add. You cannot do it…God is not going to do it…He said so…it cannot be done.

One is the “created” temporal reality which will cease when it has served the purpose for which the Lord created it. The other is the Creator who is an “eternal” reality…I will not concede that the partaking in and supporting of that…which is the antithesis of heaven…the strength and face of “anti-christ”...will ever be considered “wisdom” from or by God…neither should you Ray.

Tatwo...:)

Interesting point of view . . . one that is multi-faceted and evidently is the logic of the wisdom that comes from above and avoids any involvement in the world in which we live. Having read this now a number of times, I still don't understand IF you are voting in elections, or, whether it is too dirty and earthly for you to interject your biblical world view expressed as an vote for biblical values?

I am in no way suggesting that we invite government into the church. I am suggesting that we as the Church influence our government in practical expressed ways.

So please help me understand how your 'wisdom from above' will practically effect the dirty and fallen country in which we live . . . will you vote for family values, or sexuality as expressed in Genesis, or against the senseless murder of unborn babies in the womb? If you are not willing to roll up your sleeves and get dirty helping to pour in some 'salt' and 'light' into this fallen and rotting nation and help hurting and deceived people in our country, then I have no interest in your brand of unstained 'wisdom from above'. Frankly I see it as faith without works and dead.

All I can do is pray and then cast my vote for the least evil choices, and encourage others to do the same . . . . and rest in the outcome however it ends up. At least I have done my part to influence government in some small way.

But again . . . . I probably am not as 'wise' as I should be . . . and I definately do not have all the answers for this nation. There is only One who does, and His Name is Jesus.

Grace and Peace . . . 

[TheBlade]

Hi my brother getting strange that's for sure. I remember watching this prophet from the 50's I think. He said something and the end and Christ coming and you know you just put these things you hear on a shelve and go on. He said the last president would be a woman or a vice president. Yeah said over 50 years ago and look where we are. I don't know. 

Then I watched a preacher who I don't watch all the time and was wondering how's he doing has Churches all over the world and he said on July 2 the lord told him and I take these things with a grain of salt but said there's a scare coming and also the election will be a tipping point. For me just looking at what's going on and we can see that.  This is the same guy that early 2019 talked about the 2020 election and Biden win and also talked about something will happen with his mind, a stroke or something. That was spot on.  What I really like about him is he says things like "I need chapter and verse" has to be written but also in this case never once said he was right never talked about again. Others make it about them selfs and how they were right and..  No he does not do this all the time.

He talk how judgement starts in the house of the lord.  He stayed on that part awhile. Which if you think about.. before this world it will start with us. And that song has stuck with me lol. By the old band Petra. Before I saw this guy "Better have your house in order when the shaking begins. Shakin' the house."

This is not about the USA we make up (Christians) a very tiny part of the hole. Its about Israel. Israel is the time clock. I then read "Kamala Harris Kicks Off Her Campaign With Major Snub to Netanyahu". She is no fan of Israel. So what do I know.. Jesus is lord.

I heard something from a preacher I really like  who is long gone now but something he said I must have missed over the years that at first I didn't like. If you have no desire to share, witness your not saved or your back slidden. He was just a man could be wrong yet I found my self asking ..do I? Oh that's right I have be always praying for the lost and wanting to share. Haha. So all this said very badly (I am awful with words sorry) is just part of what I've been hearing. 

[warrior12]

2 hours ago, TheBlade said:

and he said on July 2 the lord told him and I take these things with a grain of salt

What do you mean by the above ?.  Please explain. Thanks.