Being Called, Being Chosen

[In the Clouds]

Can we discuss being called?  And what then?  Are we chosen?  Or are we chosen and then get the call?

I personally think that all are called; but, depending on how we receive and act upon that calling will determine if we are chosen.

[Truswell]

You are right. Salvation is for everyone.

Jesus died for everyone, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Because we all have sinned, God who so loved the world gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Truswell

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, In the Clouds said:

Can we discuss being called?  And what then?  Are we chosen?  Or are we chosen and then get the call?

I personally think that all are called; but, depending on how we receive and act upon that calling will determine if we are chosen.

Could you be a little more specific? Did you want to discuss: Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Or, Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

[Neighbor]

9 hours ago, In the Clouds said:

Can we discuss being called?  And what then?  Are we chosen?  Or are we chosen and then get the call?

I personally think that all are called; but, depending on how we receive and act upon that calling will determine if we are chosen.

Perhaps it is both:  all have a general call that  creation itself testifies of, but not all receive that specific ( And irresistible) call by the Holy Spirit to them personally.

Some it seems are created for that very purpose that of rejecting God no matter what and will not be enabled to heed the call to them personally. They having been created by God for that purpose ( Romans 9:17).

Some seem to have known or been called from very early on in life others are  pulled apart to repentance later in life even if they do not want to hear the call, and are turned about by God anyway.

For me putting labels on it  doesn't really work, there is no right or wrong as God can do and does as God wants. There is only God his sovereign will for his Glory alone. Praise Him for his mercy everlasting, even to the point of His breaking man's rules made for Him to follow.

 

[In the Clouds]

I can only speak from what I read in the Bible.  Calvinism and Arminianism are names referencing people who I may have heard of but haven't studied.  

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, In the Clouds said:

Can we discuss being called?  And what then?  Are we chosen?  Or are we chosen and then get the call?

I personally think that all are called; but, depending on how we receive and act upon that calling will determine if we are chosen.

To answer, I choose the following scripture as it contains the contentious words;

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Rom.8:28–30.

This passage is not complicated. What is complicated is trying to fit this passage to contemporary Church doctrine. Contemporary Doctrine in about 95% of Denominations is that a man must believe and confess Jesus and go to heaven when he dies. For those who don't hear, hear and not believe and who do evil, go to hell. The Bible says something different. It says that God had a plan with mankind to have him in His image and likeness, and for this man to bring God's type of rule to earth (Gen.1:26-28). Throughout the Bible this plan does not change and the Bible closes with a "Renewed", or "Made Pristine" earth (Lit. Gk.), with a city made of men, and having the glory of God, coming from heaven to earth and ruling.

Verse 28 says that any event in the life of one who loves God is used by God to profit him if he is called according to God's purpose. The word "according to" in the Greek means "in the manner of". Now, examples are worth a thousand words. Peter was called and Judas was called. Peter's failure was dire. Salvation is dependent on vocally confessing Jesus, not denying Him. But Peter was called according to God's plan of admitting fault and seeking mercy. Judas admitted his fault but did not seek mercy. So God's call did not profit him.

Verse 29 is the crucial verse. The 95% who get it wrong do one simple thing wrong. They substitute the words "conformed to His image" with "SALVATION". But NOWHERE in the whole Bible is a man predestinated to SALVATION. This verse tells what the GOAL of salvation is - to have a man IN THE IMAGE of Christ. So let us explain what IS written and not what we insert because of preconceived ideas. We have to address the word "foreknowledge" because in that foreknowledge you are called. A man is CALLED according to God's FOREKNOWLEDGE to be saved FOR THE PREDETERMINED GOAL of being in Christ's image.

What then is "foreknowledge"? Every year, around the world, those countries which can afford an Air Force, advertise for pilots. Thousands of young men, with various motivations, apply fr pilot selection. But why have a selection? Are not all men free to fly aeroplanes. No! The various Air Forces are about to invest a quarter of a million dollars in each pupil and give a 5 million dollar airplane into his hands. The whole chain of command in the Air Force is answerable to someone concerning men and machines. So each Air Force has a selection. For what? To gain FOREKNOWLEDGE of each man's natural talent. The Air Force wants to KNOW if the en they give so much to are CAPABLE. So, after three or four weeks of rigorous tests, of the ten thousand that applied - 150 are left. All men are free to apply. All men are free to fly. But the Investor of tax-payer's money wants FOREKNOWLEDGE. Base on past experience, will this young man become a top-gun or will he waste millions of dollars and kill himself because he lacked aptitude?

God is about to CALL men to fellowship with Himself. But God KNOW that most will refuse Him. The man is not in any way tampered with. He would refuse so nothing is withheld from him. For God, Who KNOWS the beginning from the end, does just what you would do, and what any Air Force would do with a blind man. The an is blind to his sins and he is blind by birth. In God's foreknowledge this man would just insult God.

Now, I am aware that there are various applications of "called". This post is already long, so I leave those other applications for specific discussion.

[AdHoc]

37 minutes ago, In the Clouds said:

I can only speak from what I read in the Bible.  Calvinism and Arminianism are names referencing people who I may have heard of but haven't studied.  

Like many disputes, Calvin and Arminius were both correct within their proffered scriptures, but could not deal with the scriptures of their opponent. But it sure provoked some study - a good thing

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Like many disputes, Calvin and Arminius were both correct within their proffered scriptures, but could not deal with the scriptures of their opponent. But it sure provoked some study - a good thing

Amen…and it is a great help for folks to read what both men actually believed regarding those various scriptures.

[Neighbor]

26 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The Air Force wants to KNOW if the en they give so much to are CAPABLE. So, after three or four weeks of rigorous tests, of the ten thousand that applied - 150 are left. All men are free to apply. All men are free to fly. But the Investor of tax-payer's money wants FOREKNOWLEDGE. Base on past experience, will this young man become a top-gun or will he waste millions of dollars and kill himself because he lacked aptitude?

Hi, Hmm but is that what God does? Is it what he did  with Moses? With Gideon? With Paul for that matter? Or did God just up and say you are it. Go. 

[AdHoc]

3 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, Hmm but is that what God does? Is it what he did  with Moses? With Gideon? With Paul for that matter?

It will up to each reader to decide. Maybe one can express "foreknowledge" better than I.