Being Called, Being Chosen

[AdHoc]

On 8/8/2024 at 6:17 PM, Truswell said:

I happened to see mention of women's long hair. I hope you don't mind me butting into your conversation, so let me explain. Corinth was known as Sin City, with prostitutes working out of the temple, their bald heads identifying them for what they were. This is why a woman's long hair was a glory to her. A man would be alright going to church with his bald Christian wife. This is why her long hair was a glory to her. But long hair also presented a problem. The rich women showed off their wealth by putting jewellery in their hair, so that all could see how wealthy they were. Lady Godiva did the same, and this is why Paul advised women to cover their head in humility before the Lord, for all are equal in the sight of God. I hope this helps, and apologise for butting in. :)     

Hi Truswell. I hope you will allow another view.

Headship has to do with God's government. God is Head of Christ, Christ is Head of the man and contrary to popular human rights, the man is head of the woman. The head covering is a matter of the woman and the angels. Twice did women jump out of God's order.
(1) Eve had no right to deal with an Angel (Lucifer) in the Garden. She should have referred the matter of the Trees to Adam - her Head. Adam, in like failure, should have referred the matter to God. The result of Eve dealing with an angel was catastrophic for the human race.

(2) Women, when approached by "the sons of God" (as opposed to the daughters of men) were again dealing directly with angels with no reference to her Head - the man. The end of the matter was the flood and all but eight people killed.

But there is a case when a woman is forced to jump her Head - the man. It is when the man is inadequate in power or rank - PRAYER and INSPIRED PROPHECY. Man, the Head of the woman is incapable of fulfilling his women's prayer, and he in incapable of inspiring her speech in the Assembly. For these two things she must "jump" her Head - the man, and deal directly with God. But, as a testimony, or sign (if you wish) to the angels that she still abides by God's Government, she covers her head. That is, he (the man) is present but out of the chain of command, BUT the woman is aware of it and testifies that she abides by God's Government.

If somebody objects. Paul points out what he said in Romans 1 - "the things of nature (THE CREATION) show the things of GOD (vs.18-20)". Nature has given the woman a NATURAL head Covering. If she rejects God's Government by not wearing a head covering, she should remove the one God gave her. Her bare head will testify of her nakedness in her rebellion.

The head covering is a PRIVILEGE granted only to women.

[Marilyn C]

55 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Just a friendly swap of ideas. Here is the full text;

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2nd Pe 3:8–10)

 

Thus, the "DAY" in verse 10 is 1,000 years. But 1,000 years, for men, cannot be stealthy like a thief. But according to the grammar it is not the 1,000 years that is like a thief. It will only COME as a thief - suddenly, unexpectedly, with no forewarning, at the darkest hour, at the circadian low when the watchmen are at their weakest. I

Hi Ad Hoc,

Always good to be friendly. As to `swap` ideas, I think you have confirmed the first one of my points.

In the Greek (& Hebrew) the word Day is a period of time AND a specific day.

Thus, we have - 

1. The Day of the LORD - period of time coming as a thief. 

`But the Day of the LORD will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise...` (2 Peter 3: 10)

`Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; for the Day of the LORD is coming.....like the morning clouds spread over the mountains, a people come, great and strong...` (Joel 2: 1 & 2)

2. The Day of the LORD  - specific Day.

`I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.....and the kings of the earth, and great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks,

"Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!  For the great Day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"  (Rev. 6: 12 - 17)

 

[Truswell]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Hi Truswell. I hope you will allow another view.

Headship has to do with God's government. God is Head of Christ, Christ is Head of the man and contrary to popular human rights, the man is head of the woman. The head covering is a matter of the woman and the angels. Twice did women jump out of God's order.
(1) Eve had no right to deal with an Angel (Lucifer) in the Garden. She should have referred the matter of the Trees to Adam - her Head. Adam, in like failure, should have referred the matter to God. The result of Eve dealing with an angel was catastrophic for the human race.

(2) Women, when approached by "the sons of God" (as opposed to the daughters of men) were again dealing directly with angels with no reference to her Head - the man. The end of the matter was the flood and all but eight people killed.

But there is a case when a woman is forced to jump her Head - the man. It is when the man is inadequate in power or rank - PRAYER and INSPIRED PROPHECY. Man, the Head of the woman is incapable of fulfilling his women's prayer, and he in incapable of inspiring her speech in the Assembly. For these two things she must "jump" her Head - the man, and deal directly with God. But, as a testimony, or sign (if you wish) to the angels that she still abides by God's Government, she covers her head. That is, he (the man) is present but out of the chain of command, BUT the woman is aware of it and testifies that she abides by God's Government.

If somebody objects. Paul points out what he said in Romans 1 - "the things of nature (THE CREATION) show the things of GOD (vs.18-20)". Nature has given the woman a NATURAL head Covering. If she rejects God's Government by not wearing a head covering, she should remove the one God gave her. Her bare head will testify of her nakedness in her rebellion.

The head covering is a PRIVILEGE granted only to women.

Several things from my notes:

Now Absalom was praised as the most handsome man in all of Israel. He was flawless from head to foot. He cut his hair only once a year, and then only because it was so heavy. When he weighed it out, it came to five pounds!  (2Sa 14:25-26 NLT)

Although the Nazirite vow is an Old Testament concept, there is a New Testament parallel to the Nazirite vow. In Romans 12:1-2 Paul states, “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing, and perfect will.” For Christians, the ancient Nazirite vow symbolizes the need to be separate from this world, a holy people consecrated to God (2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Peter 1:15).

A Nazarite is one who lives apart and who has made a vow of abstinence. Those who took the vow had three restrictions placed upon them. According to Numbers 6 he may not take wine or anything made from grapes; he may not cut the hair of his head; he may not touch the dead, not even the body of his father or mother. 

Samson was a Nazarite from birth, Samual was another Nazarite who we know about from the Bible, and then there was John the Baptist. Absalom had long black hair, Paul may have taken the Nazarite Vow while he was in Jerusalem and perhaps Jesus also took the Nazarite Vow. (Not to be confused with being a Nazarene.)

In Israel, the Hebrew men and women wore long hair, yet it was trimmed to show humility. Baldness was wholly despised for the reason given and extremely long hair was a sign people had taken the Nazarite Vow which you can read about in Numbers. Samson was a Nazarite from birth, Samual was another Nazarite who we know about from the Bible, then there was John the Baptist. Absalom had long black hair, Paul may have taken the Nazarite Vow while he was in Jerusalem and perhaps Jesus also took the Nazarite Vow. (Not to be confused with being a Nazarene.)

NAZARITE:
One who lives apart; one who has made a vow of abstinence.

Three restrictions are imposed upon the Nazarite, according to Num. vi.: he may not take wine, or anything made from grapes; he may not cut the hair of his head; he may not touch the dead, not even the body of his father or mother. If a Nazarite has become unclean by accident, he must offer a sacrifice and begin the period of his vow anew. He is "holy unto the Lord" (Num. vi. 8), and the regulations which apply to him actually agree with those for the high priest and for the priests during worship (Lev. x. 8 et seq., xxi.; Ezek. xliv. 21).

[AdHoc]

9 hours ago, Truswell said:

Several things from my notes:

Now Absalom was praised as the most handsome man in all of Israel. He was flawless from head to foot. He cut his hair only once a year, and then only because it was so heavy. When he weighed it out, it came to five pounds!  (2Sa 14:25-26 NLT)

Although the Nazirite vow is an Old Testament concept, there is a New Testament parallel to the Nazirite vow. In Romans 12:1-2 Paul states, “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing, and perfect will.” For Christians, the ancient Nazirite vow symbolizes the need to be separate from this world, a holy people consecrated to God (2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Peter 1:15).

A Nazarite is one who lives apart and who has made a vow of abstinence. Those who took the vow had three restrictions placed upon them. According to Numbers 6 he may not take wine or anything made from grapes; he may not cut the hair of his head; he may not touch the dead, not even the body of his father or mother. 

Samson was a Nazarite from birth, Samual was another Nazarite who we know about from the Bible, and then there was John the Baptist. Absalom had long black hair, Paul may have taken the Nazarite Vow while he was in Jerusalem and perhaps Jesus also took the Nazarite Vow. (Not to be confused with being a Nazarene.)

In Israel, the Hebrew men and women wore long hair, yet it was trimmed to show humility. Baldness was wholly despised for the reason given and extremely long hair was a sign people had taken the Nazarite Vow which you can read about in Numbers. Samson was a Nazarite from birth, Samual was another Nazarite who we know about from the Bible, then there was John the Baptist. Absalom had long black hair, Paul may have taken the Nazarite Vow while he was in Jerusalem and perhaps Jesus also took the Nazarite Vow. (Not to be confused with being a Nazarene.)

NAZARITE:
One who lives apart; one who has made a vow of abstinence.

Three restrictions are imposed upon the Nazarite, according to Num. vi.: he may not take wine, or anything made from grapes; he may not cut the hair of his head; he may not touch the dead, not even the body of his father or mother. If a Nazarite has become unclean by accident, he must offer a sacrifice and begin the period of his vow anew. He is "holy unto the Lord" (Num. vi. 8), and the regulations which apply to him actually agree with those for the high priest and for the priests during worship (Lev. x. 8 et seq., xxi.; Ezek. xliv. 21).

Thank you. You have made many good points. Here are my notes on the issue.

1. The majority never followed God. In the flood, in Israel's walk, in Sodom, in the Churches with Overcomers - God looks for a faithful remnant. This minority must be prepared to pay a price for walking with God. He must also bear testimony in his body of self-denial and shame. Judges 9 says that the fruit of the Vine "cheereth God and man". So show God's disappointment, he does not drink of the vine. Nature says that it a shame for a man to have long hair - so he lets it grow - to show God's shame at His backsliding Church.

2. With Abraham, God made Covenants. With Abraham He made a Covenant, but only at Abraham's insistence. To Israel are given Covenants. the Church is forbidden to vow. The Church is not supposed to have Law, so they are not bound by law. But they are commanded to "deny the soul and take up the cross" Thus;
(i) Israel must keep the Law
(ii) The Church must keep the principle
(iii) Israel must physically be shamed
(iv) The Church must bear Christ's reproach
(v) Israel must fast
(vi) The Church must abstain from worldy food - philosophy etc
(vii) Israel must do it for a set time
ix) The Church must do it all their days

[Truswell]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Thank you. You have made many good points. Here are my notes on the issue.

1. The majority never followed God. In the flood, in Israel's walk, in Sodom, in the Churches with Overcomers - God looks for a faithful remnant. This minority must be prepared to pay a price for walking with God. He must also bear testimony in his body of self-denial and shame. Judges 9 says that the fruit of the Vine "cheereth God and man". So show God's disappointment, he does not drink of the vine. Nature says that it a shame for a man to have long hair - so he lets it grow - to show God's shame at His backsliding Church.

2. With Abraham, God made Covenants. With Abraham He made a Covenant, but only at Abraham's insistence. To Israel are given Covenants. the Church is forbidden to vow. The Church is not supposed to have Law, so they are not bound by law. But they are commanded to "deny the soul and take up the cross" Thus;
(i) Israel must keep the Law
(ii) The Church must keep the principle
(iii) Israel must physically be shamed
(iv) The Church must bear Christ's reproach
(v) Israel must fast
(vi) The Church must abstain from worldy food - philosophy etc
(vii) Israel must do it for a set time
ix) The Church must do it all their days

That is very hard to do.

[Truswell]

On 8/10/2024 at 1:20 AM, AdHoc said:

Hi Truswell. I hope you will allow another view.

Headship has to do with God's government. God is Head of Christ, Christ is Head of the man and contrary to popular human rights, the man is head of the woman. The head covering is a matter of the woman and the angels. Twice did women jump out of God's order.
(1) Eve had no right to deal with an Angel (Lucifer) in the Garden. She should have referred the matter of the Trees to Adam - her Head. Adam, in like failure, should have referred the matter to God. The result of Eve dealing with an angel was catastrophic for the human race.

(2) Women, when approached by "the sons of God" (as opposed to the daughters of men) were again dealing directly with angels with no reference to her Head - the man. The end of the matter was the flood and all but eight people killed.

But there is a case when a woman is forced to jump her Head - the man. It is when the man is inadequate in power or rank - PRAYER and INSPIRED PROPHECY. Man, the Head of the woman is incapable of fulfilling his women's prayer, and he in incapable of inspiring her speech in the Assembly. For these two things she must "jump" her Head - the man, and deal directly with God. But, as a testimony, or sign (if you wish) to the angels that she still abides by God's Government, she covers her head. That is, he (the man) is present but out of the chain of command, BUT the woman is aware of it and testifies that she abides by God's Government.

If somebody objects. Paul points out what he said in Romans 1 - "the things of nature (THE CREATION) show the things of GOD (vs.18-20)". Nature has given the woman a NATURAL head Covering. If she rejects God's Government by not wearing a head covering, she should remove the one God gave her. Her bare head will testify of her nakedness in her rebellion.

The head covering is a PRIVILEGE granted only to women.

Paul thought very highly of women, and several accompanied him on his missionary journeys. Phoebe comes to mind, but there were more. In Corinth, Paul was faced with a local problem, so we need to take everything in context. He had lots of difficulties as he planted new Christian churches. An amazing man, who gave his all to the Lord and was mightily used of God, so let us all surrender our life to the Saviour, His will to do despite the many hardships. Each in their own small corner. Let it be, Lord. Amen.

Edited August 11, 2024 by Truswell

[AdHoc]

15 hours ago, Truswell said:

Paul thought very highly of women, and several accompanied him on his missionary journeys. Phoebe comes to mind, but there were more. In Corinth, Paul was faced with a local problem, so we need to take everything in context. He had lots of difficulties as he planted new Christian churches. An amazing man, who gave his all to the Lord and was mightily used of God, so let us all surrender our life to the Saviour, His will to do despite the many hardships. Each in their own small corner. Let it be, Lord. Amen.

You again made very good points. The one I feel to comment on is that the matter of Head Covering was universal, rather than local - for two reasons;

(1) Woman do it "because of the angels". Since heaven is full of them, the earth is full of them and under the earth in Tartaroo, are those in prison, I would venture that whatever it shows, it is displayed for every angel everywhere.

(2) Paul's first letter to the Corinthians is addressed to the following;

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (1st Cor.1:2.)

But you are right. Each of us has his view - and until he is convinced of another, it is very valid.

[Truswell]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You again made very good points. The one I feel to comment on is that the matter of Head Covering was universal, rather than local - for two reasons;

(1) Woman do it "because of the angels". Since heaven is full of them, the earth is full of them and under the earth in Tartaroo, are those in prison, I would venture that whatever it shows, it is displayed for every angel everywhere.

(2) Paul's first letter to the Corinthians is addressed to the following;

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (1st Cor.1:2.)

But you are right. Each of us has his view - and until he is convinced of another, it is very valid.

My mother, who was a pastor's wife, always had her hair long, but she kept it rolled up, and of course she always wore a hat, based on what Paul wrote to the Corinthian church. Even so, she never understood the reason why. It was not until several years after her passing that I stumbled across the reason in my studies, and so people all over the world have followed Paul's injunction to the Corinthian Church. I take my hat off to the ladies for their faith and desire to bring glory to the Lord. They are lovely.

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Truswell said:

My mother, who was a pastor's wife, always had her hair long, but she kept it rolled up, and of course she always wore a hat, based on what Paul wrote to the Corinthian church. Even so, she never understood the reason why. It was not until several years after her passing that I stumbled across the reason in my studies, and so people all over the world have followed Paul's injunction to the Corinthian Church. I take my hat off to the ladies for their faith and desire to bring glory to the Lord. They are lovely.

Amen and amen! It is the same as Abraham when commanded to sacrifice Isaac. He set out at once to achieve it, but must have had many questions. Baptism is another. It is a command - emphatic. Blessed are they who JUST DO IT.

[Truswell]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Amen and amen! It is the same as Abraham when commanded to sacrifice Isaac. He set out at once to achieve it, but must have had many questions. Baptism is another. It is a command - emphatic. Blessed are they who JUST DO IT.

That phrase was often on my lips when my daughter had to do her homework, and she kept putting it off. It had to be done, so I would say, "Just do it" and pulling a face, she would. She got to be a school teacher, so she did OK, and she is a lovely Christian too.