The Woman In Transgression

[WilliamL]

On 8/26/2024 at 8:43 PM, peacemaker 324 said:

In my opinion she transgressed only when she ate the fruit. There was no sin in her heart before that moment. In fact it was only when they would actually eat the fruit that they would begin to know the difference between Good and evil.

And again, the original sin was not the act, it was the intention: the intention to disobey the Word of God.

James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

[Your closest friendnt]

On 8/29/2024 at 3:23 PM, WilliamL said:

And again, the original sin was not the act, it was the intention: the intention to disobey the Word of God.

James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

It not so simple to understand what James said and why it may apply to some select situations it does not apply to all situations of sinful acts. 

And certainly it does not apply to Adam and Eve and the eating of the fruit of that tree. 

The suggestion that Adam and Eve were looking for an opportunity "to disobeyed the word of God" and they found one, and  saying to them selves "this is the opportunity we were looking for to "disobeyed God word". These people did not have an evil heart. They were pure they had nothing from the Serpent.  

And the fact which you continually ignore is a fact that you cannot deny that God continue to have the same fellowship with them and continue to be in his presence out side the Garden as when they were in the Garden. 

And the same was for Abel and Kaine. 

In the book of Genesis if you bothered to refer to or to read it again for clarity. 

James was not talking about people in the shoes of Adam and Eve in the Garden. But about people who were born in the strict Jewish religion and now believers in Jesus Christ. Who non of them had the same privilege of Adam and Eve to have a fellowship with God face to face and in his presence which continue outside the Garden. And you call those two people sinner with an evil heart and giving birth to children in death as conceived and born in death. 

The facts in Genesis say that they were alive to God and they were in the presence of God talking to him when  God went to them to give them his fellowship. 

Edited August 30, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Mr. M]

2 Corinthians 11:

1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—

and indeed you do bear with me. 

2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy.

For I have betrothed you to one husband, 

that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 

3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived

Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted

from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

Paul now insists that we apply this knowledge to 

maintaining doctrinal purity by the simplicity

that is in Christ.

Two words spell this out,  deceived and craftiness,

and by one we overcome: simplicity.

Romans 16:

17 Now I beseech you, brethren,

mark them which cause divisions and offences

contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned;

and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord

Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and

by good words and fair speeches

deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

Be wary of clever oratory found to be

popular and rooted in worldly wisdom.

1 Corinthians 3:

18 Let no one deceive himself.

If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, 

let him become a fool that he may become wise. 

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.

For it is written, 

“He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; 

20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts

of the wise, that they are futile.”

 

So we find the fruit of all deception 

was partaken of in the garden.

Genesis 3:

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good

for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes,

and a tree to be desired to make one wise,

she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,

and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

 

In simplicity, manifest truth in speaking.

2 Corinthians 4:

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, 

as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 

2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame,

not walking in craftiness nor handling

the word of God deceitfully, but by

manifestation of the truth commending ourselves

to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

 

Striving for a pure doctrine

Ephesians 4:

14 That we henceforth be no more children,

tossed to and fro, and carried about with every

wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and

cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up

into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.

 

Without simplicity, the Grace of God is frustrated

2 Corinthians 1:

12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience,

that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom,

but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation

in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

 

All those who discredit the importance of sound

doctrine are already deceived.

[WilliamL]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:56 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

The suggestion that Adam and Eve were looking for an opportunity "to disobeyed the word of God" and they found one, and  saying to them selves "this is the opportunity we were looking for to "disobeyed God word". These people did not have an evil heart. They were pure they had nothing from the Serpent.  

And where, scripturally, do you find that "they were pure"? They were spiritually innocent, yes. But innocence is not necessarily purity. In their case, their original innocence was merely ignorance, because they had never been tested. When they were tested, they failed the test; which test was to choose, or to not choose, to not do what God told them they should not do.

This is the same test every soul receives that comes into the world: "Choose this day whom you will serve."

On 8/29/2024 at 9:56 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

And the fact which you continually ignore is a fact that you cannot deny that God continue to have the same fellowship with them and continue to be in his presence out side the Garden as when they were in the Garden. 

Absolutely no scripture says that they received "the same fellowship" with God after they were cast out of Eden. Post-Eden, any fellowship with God had been tainted with God's judgments upon them. Not so before.

[Your closest friendnt]

40 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

And where, scripturally, do you find that "they were pure"? They were spiritually innocent, yes. But innocence is not necessarily purity. In their case, their original innocence was merely ignorance, because they had never been tested. When they were tested, they failed the test; which test was to choose, or to not choose, to not do what God told them they should not do.

This is the same test every soul receives that comes into the world: "Choose this day whom you will serve."

Absolutely no scripture says that they received "the same fellowship" with God after they were cast out of Eden. Post-Eden, any fellowship with God had been tainted with God's judgments upon them. Not so before.

Considering your response. 

In the Garden they were not poluted. 

Because there was not polution  in the Garden to be poluted with. 

They were the way they were made. Physical beings with the Life of God in them. 

And in the environment of the Garden they lived without the knowledge of right and wrong. Not only of wrong but also without the knowledge of right. 

Paul call them Adam to define an earthly human with the Life of God in him. 

Their inheritance after death had not been determined yet.

Or as they were they had the Garden as their inheritance. They cannot ascend to Heaven and they cannot descend to the earth to the underworld. 

Edited September 3, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

@WilliamL

The were in the Garden and God will come and visit them in the Garden. They were not in God's dwelling place. God made the Garden just for them. 

[WilliamL]

12 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In the Garden they were not poluted. 

Because there was not polution  in the Garden to be poluted with. 

That is, until Satan came along and polluted their minds.

13 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

And in the environment of the Garden they lived without the knowledge of right and wrong. Not only of wrong but also without the knowledge of right. 

That is, until God told Adam a "thou shalt not." Gen. 2:17 After which point he, and later Eve, were confronted with the knowledge of right and wrong:

Right: obey "thou shalt not."

Wrong: disobey "thou shalt not."

Why is this so hard to understand?

[Your closest friendnt]

19 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

That is, until Satan came along and polluted their minds.

That is, until God told Adam a "thou shalt not." Gen. 2:17 After which point he, and later Eve, were confronted with the knowledge of right and wrong:

Right: obey "thou shalt not."

Wrong: disobey "thou shalt not."

Why is this so hard to understand?

I have to go out. I will respond later on. Thank you.

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

That is, until Satan came along and polluted their minds.

That is, until God told Adam a "thou shalt not." Gen. 2:17 After which point he, and later Eve, were confronted with the knowledge of right and wrong:

Right: obey "thou shalt not."

Wrong: disobey "thou shalt not."

Why is this so hard to understand?

Thank you for your response, but I notice that you are using your own words.

The comment Satan came along and polluted their minds is not what it happened. 

There is a reason why the narrative says "the Serpent" and the way it describes it. 

They did not attach anything negative to the Serpent because they did not have that to be able to do it, because of the way they were at that time and because they did not have any context about the Serpent but besides that point the were not in the knowledge of positive or negative. 

To them he was the beautiful creature he was with the beautiful cedactive eyes. And a sweet talking friendly seducing talk. 

He appeal to them in what they knew. He described the fruit in away to make Eve desire it. What he said it was truth. The part of you will not truly die it was also truth to the point that they did not died at that time. 

But the Serpent knew that with what they did they had chosen their inheritance after death. The result was that the default inheritance for them after their death was his right to take them.

That was the default inheritance for mankind because they will be their descendants. 

God knew what will happen and he knew that the Serpent had the power to Seduce them and he was expecting that to happen and the Serpent knew that God knew that. 

God let Adam and Eve to decide for them selves.

The point is that they continued to be the people of God outside the Garden. 

As long as they lived they were the people of God and they were in God's presence. In the same way as they were in the Garden. 

And the same was for their children. 

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Fellow believers, Adam and Eve's sin was, as I have come to understand it because I'm part of it too, self-centeredness in rebelling against God that blinded them to any desire to obey him. On the other hand, Jesus' death to sin and resurrection to new life enables us to make spiritual progress to be more like him.